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GE ECM Programmable Motor


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07-11-06, 04:43 PM   #1 (permalink)  
GE ECM Programmable Motor

I have GE ECM programmable motor, from my furnace that has failed. The motor is:
Model 5SME39HL0307
Serial Number 0129YS
Hp 1/2 120 volt.

I have checked and a component on the motor circuit board has burned. This is the circuit board INSIDE the motor, NOT the furnace control board. It seems to be either a varistor or a thermistor. The component is too charred to get any numbers off of.

I am wondering if anyone can tell me where I might find out what type and value this component is? A new motor is $400, and the part to repair this one, is probably a couple $$.

The location of the component on the circuit board is RT01

thanks in advance.

 
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07-12-06, 08:38 AM   #2 (permalink)  
When you order the motor it comes with a new module, but you should be able to order the module only (which is much cheaper).

 
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06-09-07, 02:44 PM   #3 (permalink)  
DIYer

I am sure this note too late. You may have already bhought the complete assembly or just the module.

This note is for DIYers in teh future that stumble on this note.

The Thermister you are looking for is SG348. Mine charred out too just like your. Looks like they last about 5 yeears.

I basically jumped it (pulled out the charred components and soldered the feet with a soldering iron I got from Walmart.). The fan came on and I am waiting to find the part on the internet.

There is another posting that mentions usinf a 1ohm 20-30 amp Thermister.

At $250-300 for a module or $500 for a complete assembly, someone needs to open up a repair sho for these babaies. Maybe I will

 
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06-09-07, 03:22 PM   #4 (permalink)  
Now by golly that is some good information there ole Mr Fixit is saving this thread

 
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05-23-08, 09:18 AM   #5 (permalink)  
Exactly the Same Problem

I also have the same problem. A/C froze when the fan motor failed. It is a GE 5SME39SL (2.3 version)-took to a motor re-wind shop. They contacted GE which laughed -they are proprietary motors-mine's from Armstrong (Lennox). What a croc, supposed to save money due to efficiency but when they burn out you spend more than the energy you saved. Well thank you Mr. GE and those that use these products. No repairs, buy a new one. Well I also jumped the burned out Thyristor (SG379) and will look for a replacement. Problem is even the part (made by York) also seems to be proprietary. If anyone can point me in the direction to buy 1 or 3 of these please let me know. I see this appears to be a common problem -poor design and even poorer support.

 
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10-09-08, 04:10 PM   #6 (permalink)  
I found the blower motor part

The number on my blown and burned out part is SG379. I have a one horsepower blower motor.

The folks at amazingkeys.com have the part. I couldn't figure out why they had it, but the guy on the phone said they use this same part in their generators.

I got the part, soldered it in and my Carrier blower motor is now working perfectly. This saved me about $1400 and came with a three year warranty.

Not bad. Not bad at all.

 
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10-14-08, 12:24 PM   #7 (permalink)  
Posted By: Bob Reynolds The number on my blown and burned out part is SG379. I have a one horsepower blower motor.

The folks at amazingkeys.com have the part. I couldn't figure out why they had it, but the guy on the phone said they use this same part in their generators.

I got the part, soldered it in and my Carrier blower motor is now working perfectly. This saved me about $1400 and came with a three year warranty.

Not bad. Not bad at all.

Bob - Digikey sells thermisters for a range of prices - if you can read the information from your part we may be able to figure out the specs and find an even more economical alternative (amazingkeys.com wants $99 for a part that can likely be purchased for less than $10).

I'm guessing these are a variety of thermistor called "inrush current limiting" - someone please correct me if this is wrong.

Here's the web page for Digikey - once we have the specs, then this is where to search for suitable substitute.

http://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSea...mistor;stock=1

Cheers.

Allen
Corvallis, Oregon

 
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10-18-08, 10:54 AM   #8 (permalink)  
Another Blown Thermistor

From reading your post(s), I gather that you think Digi-Key has a suitable replacement.

My motor is a 3/4HP. The blown Thermistor has the lettering SG348 on it. I know nothing about thermistors, in fact...this is the first time ever even hearing that term. I have no idea what exactly I am looking for but would love to just order a couple of replacements. Can someone point me to the actual part I need that I can order?

I would be in your debt!

Thanks,
Dan

 
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10-18-08, 03:04 PM   #9 (permalink)  
A thermistor is a resistor that changes its resistance as a result of heat. This may be internally generated heat or it could be heat from an external source.

Thermistors are made in a huge range of current-carrying capacities and also with specific resistance when at specific temperatures. It is my understanding that the thermistors in the General Electric ECM motors are made specifically for General Electric and are not a stock item to be found with the electrical/electronic supply houses.

I suppose the GE ECM thermistors could be "reverse engineered" to find a suitable stock replacement but I'm not going to volunteer my currently operational motor for the cause.

 
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10-18-08, 05:35 PM   #10 (permalink)  
Could This Be It?

No picture or anything but the name at least matches up.

http://www.plccenter.com/buy/Generic%20Thermistor/SG348
_________________________________________________________________________


I also saw this post referencing the same SG348 part. I don't speak this language, so I will let other interpret it:

"I post the answer to my own question. I see some interest in this component, which is 1ohm, 20A thermistor made by RTI
It can be replaced with any other 1ohm 20A to 30A PT thermistor."


Seems like with that info (if correct) it would be easy to find a replacement?

 
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10-23-08, 09:56 AM   #11 (permalink)  
Straight From The Source

Ok so I called RTI Electronics who manufactured that part for GE. He was very nice and said that they spec'd that out for GE as a 1 OHM 16A NTC Thermistor. He cross-referenced with parts that they still make and said these two would be the same:

SG100
SG301

So there you go...easily can be cross-referenced at digi-keys. Its a $10 or so part. Don't pay $100 to amazingkeys.com...thats a huge markup! Funny thing is, if amazingkeys.com had that part for $50 I probably wouldn't have gone through all the trouble to find a cheaper alternative. Greed.

Cheers everyone!
Dan

 
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10-27-08, 09:21 AM   #12 (permalink)  
Hi Guys,
I know this is an old thread, but it's the only one I could find with close information.

I have a Carrier model 50SX size 48 at home. It has been nothing but trouble since day one. It seems like each Spring I need to get the air fixed and each Fall I need the heat fixed. Well now my extended warranty has run out and my repairman wants $1100 to fix a stopped blower motor. He said I need the control module and wiring harness. Its a GE Regal-Beliot ECM 2.3 , 1 h.p. model 5SME39SL (whole motor)

I took the control module off the motor and found the C03-C05 parts (Blue caps - I think) on the board toasted. A couple of traces look burnt as well, some dirt, and some corrosion; I don't know if I can fix it. And to top the cake, my Queen - Her Majesty Herself - wants it fixed yesterday.

So my question is... Where is the cheapest place to get a new module? And is the wiring clip (16 pin) available? I need to clean up the wires too. And anything else I sould know about? This is my first stab at A/C repair.

Thanks - Louie Beer 4U2

 
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10-29-08, 10:47 PM   #13 (permalink)  
Furnace Blower Motors

As I stated above I fixed my blower motor by going to amazingkeys.com and getting the correct part. They are also on eBay and have some pictures of the burned part which is part number SG379 or SG348.

I know others have said that you can get these parts somewhere else, but I could not find them anywhere other than Amazingkeys.com. Radio Shack did not have them and Digikey did not have them and Allied did not have them. There was a place that advertised that they had them and when I e-mailed they told me the part was obsolete and discontined.

Amazingkeys.com shipped the part overnight and I had warm heat the very next day. It took me less than 30 minutes to fix the unit and it came with well detailed pictured instructions.

The bottom line is that it worked and it saved me over $1000 compared to the quote from the HVAC repairman. I was able to get rid of the space heaters that I have been using since the motor went out. That will save me $10 a day in electricity! Frankly I don't mind paying amazingkeys.com the $99 to have the right part with the instructions and I'm glad they provide this needed service. I would have paid a lot more to get my heat working. I'm sure they made money on this sale and I don't resent them making money. Without amazingkeys.com, I would have been held up by this GE motor.

 
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11-20-08, 08:01 PM   #14 (permalink)  
Thermistor

Digikeys does have the part. All it is is a 1ohm 20A NTC thermistor. I ordered 2 of them and they got to me in 2 days for $25 total. I now have a spare in case it happens again.

The Digikeys part# is: 615-1046-ND


I have had it in for a month now with zero problems.

 
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12-20-08, 11:42 AM   #15 (permalink)  
This is great info and difficult to find on the internet. My mom/dad were recently left "holding the bag" on a very cold night because of this crappy GE design. The next day and about $1000 later they had their furnace back.

Thanks to all who figured out it's a 1 ohm 20 amp thermistor.

Mouser Electronics - Electronic Component Distributor sells them also and their part number is 871-B57464S109M for $3.71

Hey Bob......you must work for Amazingkeys?

 
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01-16-09, 01:31 PM   #16 (permalink)  
Same Problem With A Different Air Handler

My sincere thanks to all of you who posted to this thread. It truly was an answer to prayer to find this link. Here are the specs on my unit and the fix:

Trane TWE065E13FA1 Air Handler
GE ECM Programmable Motor 5SME39SL0013
(Trane MOT 05431 Motor with MOD 00196 Module)

The SG349 thermistor failed in the module portion of the motor. It was replaced with an Ametherm 1 ohm, 30 amp thermistor from Digi-Key (Part Number 570-1059-ND). This part has a maximum recommended voltage of 265 Vrms which is needed when the motor is wired for 240 VAC operation. It is a $2.42 part which looks and functions the same as the SG349. It saved me from a nearly $800 repair which would have replace only the module with no guarantee that it would have fixed the problem.

 
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01-16-09, 03:44 PM   #17 (permalink)  
What a great thread and forum this is.

There are so many HVAC contractors that are so corrupt! Charging $1,000.00 for something that can be fixed for around 25 bucks.

No wonder the HVAC contractors at the HVAV talk site prohibit any talk of $dollars$ or how to fix things.

The whole HVAC industry is to freaking corrupt in order to inflate and maintain prices artificially high.

 
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02-13-09, 12:54 PM   #18 (permalink)  
Mee tooooo

Count me among the burned by the SG379
Luckily, I read this page first and ordered the replacement from Digi Key.

I am also going to replace the part in my second furnace that has not burned yet. It's failure cannot be far behind

Jim

 
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02-14-09, 07:43 PM   #19 (permalink)  
This is a very good post,
I will book mark it.

And Joe, We are not corrupt.
Hell we are air conditioning techs.
Not electronic technicians.
Do you think GE tells us anything, or how to fix their motors? no sir they don't.
As it was mentioned, GE doesn't even want anyone to know what part it is to be replaced.
As a professional company we can't just Jerry or Joe Rig it.
Because if it doesn't work or blows out with in 30 days. We have hell to pay with the customer.


Another thing, I can't even buy the module from my distributor to put on the motor I have to buy the whole darn thing and it is expensive!!
So my answer is when I sell new equipment, it has a 10yr part warranty on it. That way you don't have to worry about the motor Joe! Did you opt out of the extended warranty?
You probably got an extended warranty for your TV but no not the most expensive appliance in your home?? hmm

Oh and Joe how much do you make an hr? How much did you make on your taxes this year Joe?

Guess what I made this year?
-386 dollars: that is a minus in front of that 386 Joe!
my wife supported me and she got to deduct a minus 384 dollars from her taxes too.

Oh how we rip people off! People like you rip me to no end!

So Joe I think you are the one who rips people off, doing what ever you do to make a living!
I say give up your salary now and show up for work every day!
And I bet you never had to once get in your attic when I work in every ones hot attic all summer long!

enough of you Joe~!


And to the electronic wiz's thanks!
Now If I come across this problem I can give the customer this option of a fix for a reasonable fair market price.
Instead of having to buy the whole motor.

 
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02-25-09, 03:21 PM   #20 (permalink)  
variable speed motor repair

I am resonding to the various posts about problems with variable speed blower motors failing and costing alot to repair. I know it makes many home owners mad and also many of us repair men. I wanted to voice along with some others that many times we are not aware of the cheap solution. I am a Lennox dealer and today I had a 6 year old motor fail. I found the same thermister as many have mentioned to be burned off. I have orderd 25 of these thermisters from digi key to repair any motors I may run into or obtain through warranty. I will report back with my results as soon as I have them, but this appears to be very common. I have 5 other motors in my shop I saved for experimentation and found out today that they all have the same failure. JUST SO EVERYONE KNOWS. GE will not talk to us techs, the manufacturers many times will only sell us a motor and not just the module. My Lennox motors often cost ME in the range of $500 - $650. I had to purchase one for a customer from Carrier that cost me $850 plus tax. So don't assume your ac man is trying to screw you. He's getting screwed and just passing it along. We've even been told that these motors have different programming and aren't interchangeable between brands. For fear of burning up a $600 motor we have never tried, but with these repaired models I will try to do some interchanging and let you know how that works as well. There's some crooks out there, but there's honest people whose hands are tied as well. We've been putting in high efficiency Lennox units with variable speed motors since they first came out and this is the first time we ever notice the similarty, mostly because they were under warranty and it didn't matter, now it cost the customer and we're concerned about that. Some of us are on your side. Sorry for the long post. I'll post all my research.

 
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05-07-09, 09:38 AM   #21 (permalink)  
Carrier Variable Speed Motor Controller

I empathize with the field people on this one. Carrier is doing a number on them and the consumer. This one is a very easy field fixable item. Carrier should have a tech bulletin out with available part to all their service agents, independents or company people. At most it takes about an hour to do from turning off the switch to turning it back on.
For all the DIYs out there, here's what I have found. If you can figure out how to remove the motor controller and separate the circuit boards in it (an easy thing), it's a simple quick solder job. The part you want is, as stated in the other posts, a simple inexpensive thermistor. You can get the part from Newark Electronics (www.newark.com): Newark # 72J6816. Cost is $1.42 with about $5 shipping. (Buy two for a spare!) This is a 1 ohm, 20 amp NTC thermistor. The manufacturer of the part is Ametherm, their part # SL221R020. Good luck all. I'm up and running again for less than $10.

 
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05-08-09, 07:55 AM   #22 (permalink)  
Carrier (and others) Variable Speed Motor Controllers

Additionally to my previous note, for those with larger furnaces/AC units, you might need a 30 amp thermistor. I think that would be Ametherm part SL221R030. Don't know the Newark #; but, you can find it on the Newark website.

P.S. Newark had the part to me the 2nd day after I ordered it----standard shipping!

 
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05-18-09, 10:03 AM   #23 (permalink)  
Here are some pictures.




The modules do not always fail the same way. i've seen rectifiers blow, fusable traces blow, driver IGBT's blow, etc.but for the DIYer this is best bet.

I have tested a 3/4 HP and a 1HP motor. They were both identical electrically, typically they showed 4.5 - 4.7 ohms between each phase. These are nothing more than big 3 phase stepper motors. There are slight differences between 3/4HP and 1HP modules. 1HP module has two more storage capacitors, a larger bridge rectifier with larger heat sink, a high current NTC thermistor and thicker fusable trace. I tore down the microprocessor controls too. Both used the same IGBT with same heat sink. The PCB revision and lot codes are the same for the 3/4HP and 1 HP. The electronic components are equivilant as well.

There are differences on the older ECM modules. These modules were constructed with cast aluminum where the later modules use drawn metal housing. The older modules only differed in the physical size of the IGBT heat sink when comparing 3/4 HP and 1 HP modules.

Through experiments it is my opinion that 3/4 HP and 1HP motors are identical. The difference is in the module power supply and program.

With this said it is very likely that the two motors(3/4HP-1HP) are created by the manufacturer as one. Likewise the modules be the same untill final assembly where 3/4HP or 1HP power supplies be fitted to complete the module and place a HP rating. Either a 3/4HP or 1HP module is purchased and then field programmed for the particular application. The fully assembled motor with programming are then sold with very specific part numbers at a great markup in cost. Then a HVAC house buys the motor or module. The HVAC tech has no control over programming, or the middle men. The result? Outrageous prices for blower motor repair. Of course these are my deductions based on electronic experiments,common engineering models and business practices.

In other words. There are 3/4HP and 1HP modules. Each module has custom programming to fit a particular application.

What we need is a low cost programmer in order to use modules in other applications.


Last edited by iteration69; 05-18-09 at 10:48 AM.
 
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05-18-09, 01:00 PM   #24 (permalink)  
It appears to me that solid-state components just open the door for rip-offs by the OE mfgrs. Great grandad hand wiring all his electric motors. They lasted almost forever, and if they didn't there was an electric motor repair shop in town.


Last edited by srercrcr; 05-18-09 at 01:01 PM. Reason: clarify
 
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05-19-09, 12:33 PM   #25 (permalink)  
Just in case someone is looking for more ge ecm module images.
Pictures by iteration69 - Photobucket

If anyone has any bad modules they would like to donate for the greater cause, let me know.

 
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05-31-09, 08:57 AM   #26 (permalink)  
Were can I buy a replacement motor for a good price? Mine stopped working and the board does not look fried. the model number is 5SME39SL 0620.
I am having the hardest time finding an online place that carries a replacement. Also, how much should it reasonably cost?

 
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05-31-09, 11:04 AM   #27 (permalink)  
If you can DIY you can look back and find a fix. Posted are part no. and what is needed to repair / replace parts on the board that overheat and go bad, which is as easy as a resister replacement.

 
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05-31-09, 11:49 AM   #28 (permalink)  
Great thread. Hope you don't mind my question.

I am getting close to selecting a dual fuel heat pump/gas furnace that has a GE ECM motor which provides many of the great benefits of this upper end system. I have heard that the electrical components in ECM motors are susceptible to lightening strikes. I am a bit concerned since our previous homes in Illinois (not there any more) were hit by lightening 3-5 times with holes through the chimney twice. I know little about motors, but do many of the failures of these motors have anything to do with lightening strikes?

I have asked the proposers to supply a surge suppressor for the furnace since I don't know what to buy myself. Several have said they would either do this or would tell me what to buy. Any other ideas or solutions?

 
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06-23-09, 10:23 PM   #29 (permalink)  
Ponchopete

Can you blow the storage capacitors in these? All my symptoms are what you are explaining here but the backside of the circuit board on mine has the burn mark between a storage capacitor, the c06 one. (2 storage capacitors, as mine is a 3/4 hp).
I e-mailed the guy on ebay and he told me the thermistor would fix this....I am leary because all the pictures show the burn marks directly below the thermistor. Mine are under the storage capacitor.
Thanks....if this works out I will save myself over $1000. 4 months out of warranty. Bad GE

 
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06-24-09, 08:48 AM   #30 (permalink)  
Posted By: joe1234 What a great thread and forum this is.

There are so many HVAC contractors that are so corrupt! Charging $1,000.00 for something that can be fixed for around 25 bucks.

No wonder the HVAC contractors at the HVAV talk site prohibit any talk of $dollars$ or how to fix things.

The whole HVAC industry is to freaking corrupt in order to inflate and maintain prices artificially high.
Boy, what a hero you are. You talk smack about how corrupt the HVAC industry is but yet you come here looking for free information from corrupt people. I'll admit there are companies that aren't on the up and up. But to say the whole HVAC industry is corrupt is rediculous. :bad poster:

 
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06-26-09, 05:35 AM   #31 (permalink)  
GE ECM Motor - what are wiring and control signals?

I went through the $1000 motor replacement on my Carrier 58 system but now I am repairing the old/bad motor so I'll have a spare. My motor had the blown RT01 thermistor. I want to test the motor on the bench. I know how to connect the 110VAC up based on the HVAC unit's documentation/wiring diagrams. I've powered up the AC side and now the DC side is working ok. But before testing the 3 phase variable frequency generator and spinning up the motor I need to know how are the five control signal wires used. Are these something simple like ground a combination of the 5 leads to control the motor speed? Anyone have a copy of GE's specs for the motor? My motor is a GE Model 5SME39HL0003 (the brand X replacement motor is labeled as an "HD 44AE 116".

 
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06-29-09, 04:13 PM   #32 (permalink)  
Time to install thermistor

O.K. I got my thermistor today from Newark electronics. Under 11.00 for three including shipping. (Thanks to who ever posted that). Will try later to get this installed and keep you updated as to if it works.....thanks, Dan

 
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06-29-09, 07:56 PM   #33 (permalink)  
that did not work??????

O.K. so I got everything together again and tried it but no go....I am thinking the storage capacitor is bad being that it had burn marks below that and not the thermistor.. Anyone else have this problem too?

 
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07-01-09, 04:40 AM   #34 (permalink)  
There are very few HVAC techs out there who would carry a soldering gun or any electronic components to repair the ECM motors much less any other electronic board. It's rarely ever done nowadays. And forget about taking it to a motor repair shop. It's not worth it for them to do the repair, especially if there are time constraints involved. Most customers want there systems fixed ASAP and don't want to wait weeks. Also a contractor will be giving the customer a repaired part and cannot give them the same warranty or guarantee as a new part.

 
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07-10-09, 09:34 PM   #35 (permalink)  
ponchopete

Take a photo of both sides of the power board(the one with the thermistor and diodes) Make sure the solder side is in good light and good focus.


If you are not certain the problem is a capacitor don't waste your time.The modules can fail in many other ways that are not obvious untill the coating is removed.



On a side note I found a way to reprogram the modules. So i've been tinkering with a field programmable module. This would allow a tech to replace the module by simple entering the code on the side of the module into the field module. The field module would ramp up and ramp down just like the original would have. It will also have the same CFM for fan, cool, heat, dehmid, etc.

Not sure if this is something most techs would like to have or not. But i know of a few who would like it, thus my motivation.

 
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07-10-09, 09:55 PM   #36 (permalink)  
Bigham,




Hope that helps.

 
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07-17-09, 08:24 AM   #37 (permalink)  
O. K. Thanks ITERATIONS for the info.
We have been blessed with some cool weather since we discovered the fan went out in the furnace. I have not had time to work on the module here the last couple of weeks but I did buy a new replacement 5sme39sl motor. If that does not work then it will for sure be the module.
When, and if I get to that point does anyone rebuild these modules? The module # is 0626 (GE). From my previous posting it looks like it is the capacitor that is fried on the backside and not thermistor. If you need any other numbers ket me know.
I have had a hard time trying to find a new replacement module as they must list them and sell under different numbers.
I did find a complete motor and module but that was almost what my hvac guy wanted.
Thanks, Dan


Last edited by ponchopete; 07-17-09 at 08:28 AM. Reason: another question
 
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07-21-09, 04:48 PM   #38 (permalink)  
new motor

O.K. I got he new motor hooked up and no go....Does nyone out there repair these. The only replacement one outthere I could find was more than what my hvac guy wanted. The number on my module is dg02 016384 5
It is a York 94% eff unit.
Thanks, Dan

 
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07-22-09, 03:56 AM   #39 (permalink)  
They are only sold as a pkg in the HVAC trade/industry [when the module is inside the notor]. Having internal parts available for the motors would be superfluous; many techs can't even diagnose a simple PSC motor. The appliance industry is going thru similar gyrations. So many appliances today use electronic controls. A 25 cent item on a board goes toast and consumers have to pay hundreds for a new board. I lay it off on poor component selections, inadequate testing, and poor designs. Dishwashers are a good example. What kind of an idiot puts a DW vent and an electronic board adjacent to each other at the top of the door? The moisture from the vent is going to get on that board; you can't stop it. I'm done ranting.

 
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07-24-09, 07:36 AM   #40 (permalink)  
I am done trying to fix module for now, will install a single speed motor

O.K. I am going to put the module on the back burner for now and just try to install a single speed motor. Is there anyone that can help me as far as to what I need to look for when selecting the motor and also would like some good directions on electrical hook-up.
Thanks, Dan

 
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