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Indepth question about leaking basement, dirt crawlspace and how to fix it all

Indepth question about leaking basement, dirt crawlspace and how to fix it all


  #1  
Old 02-01-13, 02:48 PM
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Indepth question about leaking basement, dirt crawlspace and how to fix it all

Hi Everyone,

I'm from Ontario Canada, my wife and I bought this house back in the spring, its an old house but nicely renovated, the original house was quite small and the existing house is basically a bunch of additions put onto it.

So my problem began a few days ago, we had a fair bit of snow and then a sudden unseasonal thaw followed by several days of rain, I noticed a musty/moldy smell almost immediately and when I went into the basement there was water comming in from a wall/floor adjecent to the addition which make up the bulk of the house.

You can see in the photos where it is comming in, on the other side of that wall is a dirt crawl space which is acclimated (not vented) with the small basement part, the dir comes up to about where the cinder blocks stop, maybe a bit higher.

Now the weather has turned cold again and the water has dired up but the musty odor refuses to go away no matter how many times we air the house out and I think a part of that is the dirt crawl space.

What I want to do is 2 things, 1. prevent this from ever happening again and 2. eliminate that odor for good.

Now Im pretty handy and have done alot of stuff but can honestly say I've never delt with foundation issues so I'm a bit out of my element here but my thoughts are 1. sump pump, 2 cover the dirt with vapor barrier, but I'm not sure if thoes are the right steps or the logistics of the sump pump.

I was told before my a contractor and a house inspector to always cover dirt floors with plastic but they were talking about cold vented crawl spaces not acclimated ones, is it still a good idea to cover it with plastic? If not how can I seal up the dirt to get rid of the musty smell?

Regarding the sump pump, I'm not sure excatly where to put it, if I should put it in the basement half or the crawl space half and I'm a little apprehensive about doing it because of having punch through the concrete floor (I'm worried about messing up the foundation and having the house sink).

Any advice and help you guys could offer would be greatly appreciated.



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  #2  
Old 02-01-13, 03:01 PM
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Welcome to the forums.

Yup, cover the dirt with plastic. When it warms up outside again, I would look out there to make sure you're diverting water away from the house in the first place with grading, gutters and downspout extensions.
 
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Old 02-01-13, 05:29 PM
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Is the house on municipal sewer hook-up or septic?


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Old 02-01-13, 05:47 PM
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Thanks for the replies guys,

The house is on municipal sewers, it does have some minor drainage issues that I have to address in the spring, the gutters need replacing and I think I need to re-grade the front lawn but we've had some heavy and extended period of rain before and this hasnt happened.

I think with all the snow melting at once compounded with all the rain the water table was up really high and it began to come through the floor, you could hear the neighbors sump pump going quite a bit. I have a feeling its going to happen again come spring or if we have another fast thaw as we already have a good foot of snow again.

So you guys dont think installing a sump pump would be a worthwhile task?

Ill go grab a roll of vapor barrier and a roll of tuct tape tomorrow and get that dirt covered up.
 
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Old 02-01-13, 06:22 PM
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Outside grading and water from eavestroughs will need to be the important project for the springtime.....are your downspouts connected to pipes going into the ground?

Depending on the age of the house.....it should have weeping tile around the foundation that collects the water and directs it out to the sewer. Either it doesn't exist or it could be failing to do it's job and can become clogged with age and become overwhelmed. It may be worth it to have your drains scoped with a camera before you spend the time and money on installing a sump pump system.

Also.....you have floor drains which could be a source of odor.....the traps could be dry as there likely is no priming feed in such an old house. Look through the drain covers with a flashlight to see if there is water in the traps. One appears to be fed by the softener and A/C......so that one likely has water if the softener is being used.


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Old 02-01-13, 06:42 PM
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Well, the original house was built in the late 1800's, I'm not sure when all the additions were put on but if I had to guess probably 20-30 years ago. I'm really not sure what they did with the weeping tile, if there even is any. I mean the basement has stayed surpsingly dry for a house this old its only with the recent thaw that we got that bit of water and it went away pretty much as soon as the rain let up.

It doesnt help that both houses on either side are fairly new and were built up on a bit of a hill so they sit a couple feet above ours and all their water runs our way.

It wouldnt be such a big deal if it werent for the small, it was awful and honestly my lungs were begining to ache having to breathe it, I would really prefer to avoid this situation in the future.
 
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Old 02-02-13, 06:02 AM
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To deal with the odor......you may want to temporarily block off any cold air furnace intake located in the basement....it may help lessen the smell upstairs. You should also be running a portable dehumidifier which will greatly reduce the moisture and dry things out. Did you check the floor drains for water? If you are convinced the odor is coming from the dirt floor.....you could try and cover it as discussed. If it is truly unbearable.....another option is to install a very low CFM exhaust fan at the far end of the crawl space.....a simple inexpensive bathroom type fan vented to the outside with a 3" pipe. As I said.....very low CFM.....just enough to create a passive negative air flow so that the air from the crawl space doesn't pour into the basement.

Regarding the sump pump.....it's difficult to say how effective it would be. You say the basement has been very dry.....so this likely means the water table is fairly low. Ideally.....a sump pit should be fed by the drain tiles so that it actually collects the water from around the foundation. That might be difficult to do in a retrofit situation like yours. There are plenty of places for the water to enter a basement when building sections are added on.....especially if the weeping system is not continuous. The way you have described the events.....you likely have a top-down leak as opposed to a bottom-up leak. If a similar situation arose in the future with a thaw and big rain......the water quite possibly would still enter the basement before it even reaches the sump pit.


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Old 02-02-13, 09:35 AM
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I have a feeeling that the leak was more bottom up, if you look at the one picture it shows a few spots on the floor which is away from the main leak where you could tell water was begging to make its way up through the floor, I'm not sure whats un the concrete and if they did enough gravel under there that if I put in a sump it would collect the water flowing directly beneath the concrete.

Do you think maybe some sort of water proofing treatment applied to the walls and floor would be beneficial? If so, can you recommend one?
 
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Old 02-02-13, 11:04 AM
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No bans-aid on the walls will work. You are seeing a high ground water level that can create hydrostatic pressure. Normally, the route from water in saturated soils below is the joint between the wall and slab, but if you are seeing leakage elsewhere, it is a sign of saturated soils. - That is why your neighbor has a sump pump and probably drain tile (interior or exterior) to collect the moisture contantly over a long period of time and eliminate water inside.

Dick
 
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Old 02-03-13, 06:39 AM
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I have a feeling that the leak was more bottom up

The fact that this occurred during a heavy rain and thaw situation points toward the source being surface water. The fact that it stopped leaking when the rain stopped points in the same direction.....as the water table usually is slow to react and it would have continued to leak afterwords. The fact that this has never happened before points to the same conclusion.

The only way to know for sure if a sump pump will help is to install one.....but as I stated it's quite possible it won't help based on these circumstances. All it can do is keep the water table at a lower level than the floor.....and in your case it would totally depend on the ability of the compacted soil to percolate the water into the pit. But.....it can't intercept surface water before it reaches a breach in the foundation..... especially if there is no continuous drain tile system that collects the water and directs it to the pump.


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