Total Gut - Shower advice needed


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Old 02-23-12, 06:35 AM
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Total Gut - Shower advice needed

I'm totally gutting my Master Bath. I have attached a proposed redesign. The area between the toilet and the tub is the shower. I wanted a step into the tub, so I incorporated the step into the shower. In the drawing, the whole "L" shaped area between the tub and toilet is approx. 6" high. The wall between the shower and toilet is approx. 5' high. The long arrows on the shower/step are my proposed slope for drainage to a linear drain.

Question: Should I "frame" the shower/step with the slope I need for this area to drain as designed? Or is there another way I should achieve this?

Or, ...is this the most ridiculous thing you have ever seen?

Thanks,
Greg
 
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Old 02-23-12, 07:03 AM
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It might be easier to build your slope the traditional way with a mortar bed. You install your membrane then pack down a very dry mix of mortar to achieve the elevation and slope you want. Steel mesh can be embedded to give it extra strength.
 
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Old 02-23-12, 07:29 AM
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How do I do that in the are between the corner cabinet and the wall next to the toilet? Can I put in a mortar bed on the edge of the open space? Do I build a temporary wall on the front side of the step to install the mortar bed?

Thanks
 
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Old 02-23-12, 07:34 AM
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Normally we frame things level and pitch the slope with cement during the floating process.

But if you're using backer boarding, you may need to address the slope in your framing. Doesn't have to be dramatic, 1/4" per 5ft.
 
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Old 02-23-12, 07:56 AM
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Why the drain? If no drain then no slope.

Seems silly to me. I see no reason to have it.

Mike NJ


Mike NJ
 
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Old 02-23-12, 08:05 AM
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Lawrosa,

I don't understand your question of 'why the drain?'. I'm almost positive that I need a drain for the shower water on one side and the small amount of bath water when people get out of the tub on the other side.
 
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Old 02-23-12, 08:19 AM
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Yes you need a drain for the shower stall (hoping your using a 2" drain for that).

That "step" does not need a drain for the small amount of moisture that comes off you after a bath, that's what a bath mat is for...............

That step of yours, 6" in height is acting like a shower dam. I normally do pitch a dam towards the drain as I would like the water running down the swinging shower door to stay in the shower stall. The wall between the toilelt and shower can be level - I'm assuming you'll be installing some sort of glass panel there?

But if the shower head is not located in proximity to the shower door, I'm leaning towards Lawrosa's opinion of "what the what". Don't overthink the (bath)room.
 
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Old 02-23-12, 08:21 AM
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Your better off redesigning. Turn the tub and install a seperate stand up shower.

Who wants to stand in a big soaking tub to take a shower?

You did say the tub was the shower, right?

Its your project though......

Mike NJ
 
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Old 02-23-12, 08:30 AM
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Something like this.










And if you need more room go to a neo angle design.








Just trying to help......


Mike NJ
 
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Old 02-23-12, 08:36 AM
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My fault for a crappy description.
The rectangular tub area/top edge of tub is about 16" above the level of the 6" step. The shower head will be on the wall directly opposite the 5' wall next to the toilet. The distance between the shower head and the 5' wall is approx. 6'.
No glass on any of it. Don't care if shower water splashes in the tub.

Hope that clears things up???
 
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Old 02-23-12, 08:46 AM
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Is the shower pan and the step the same level? Or do you step down into the shower stall from the 6" step.

What is going between the shower stall and the soaking tub, a 16" wall coming off the soaking tub?

Oh, don't care if water goes into tub?

The problem with your design is that you're making the most functional part of your bathroom an afterthought - after everything else, this is where we can fabricate the shower stall (make it fit).

Can't tell you how many of these I've done - that cumbersome soaking / spa tub sure seemed like a great idea in the beginning, we used it in the beginning but as time goes on it just becomes soomething that is barely used. It wastes water and sometimes you have to modify the water heating system (as this usually empties a 50 gallon water heater to fill it up).

What do most of us do in the morning? Get up, take a shower & go to work. Design the bathroom around the shower. In my opinion I'd scrap that soaking tub and design a large shower stall - two shower valves, a seat and steamer.
 

Last edited by Reglazing King; 02-23-12 at 09:05 AM.
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Old 02-23-12, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Reglazing King
Is the shower pan and the step the same level? Yes, the step and shower are on the same level. The arrows on that area are the direction of the slope to a linear drain.
What is going between the shower stall and the soaking tub, a 16" wall coming off the soaking tub? The 16" wall is from the step/shower to the top edge of the tub. Oh, don't care if water goes into tub? Is this a problem?

The problem with your design is that you're making the most functional part of your bathroom an afterthought - after everything else, this is where we can fabricate the shower stall (make it fit).

Can't tell you how many of these I've done - that cumbersome soaking / spa tub sure seemed like a great idea in the beginning, we used it in the beginning but as time goes on it just becomes soomething that is barely used. It wastes water and sometimes you have to modify the water heating system (as this usually empties a 50 gallon water heater to fill it up). Wife won't give up the tub. It is the only part of the old bathroom I'm keeping. We have a tankless water heater, so filling it isn't a problem.

What do most of us do in the morning? Get up, take a shower & go to work. Design the bathroom around the shower. In my opinion I'd scrap that soaking tub and design a large shower stall - two shower valves, a seat and steamer. Would love to scrap the tub, but not an option. To complicate the design, I have windows at the head and long side of the tub. If I scrap the tub, I can't use that area for a vanity or shower area anyhow.
Thanks for your help. This is the best design I have been able to come up with. Any and all suggestions (within the wifes' above stated parameters) are welcome.

Greg
 
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Old 02-23-12, 11:46 AM
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Two neo angles tub and shower is very attractive IMO. Better use of space.
Cant see but you get the idea.




I'm keeping. We have a tankless water heater, so filling it isn't a problem
Odd. Most roman tub valves are 13 gpm. Tankless would never fill it inless you trickled the hot in. Then it would take a very long time. Thats why these tub valves GPM are so high.

Possibly you have something special that we dont know about????

Oh, don't care if water goes into tub? Is this a problem?





Why would you want water falling on the tub ledge? Grout is not water proof. In no time I think you will have issues.

How many times do you want to redo this bath?



The problem with your design is that you're making the most functional part of your bathroom an afterthought - after everything else, this is where we can fabricate the shower stall (make it fit).


I agree 100% with reglazing king.

Like I said its your bathroom.

I will find more pics with design options if you like. You may be determined to do it how you wants though.

Mike NJ
 
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Old 02-23-12, 11:57 AM
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Old 02-23-12, 12:25 PM
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Mike,
I appreciate all of your insight. As for the roman tub valve, I am unsure whether or not it is. It "is" whatever the builder installed with the house when built. If it is not, we wouldn't know any better. If it is and the tankless can keep up, ooh ray for me. Something is finally going my way. The tankless is a Navien NR 240A.

Now the comment that frightened me. Is there a waterproof grout that I'm supposed to use in a shower? I thought grout was grout. I put what I assume is regular grout in my basement shower.

Greg
 
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Old 02-23-12, 12:41 PM
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As for the grout issue, Lowes carries a product called "Spectralock".
This tile grout is a 2 part epoxy. It doesn't need to be sealed and is kinda like grouting your tile with caulking. Stain proof, bullet proof.

The downside is it is VERY expensive and a pain in the arse to apply.
 
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Old 02-23-12, 12:42 PM
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Oh, don't care if water goes into tub? Is this a problem?
Maybe. The tub is a drop in, and so is not made to be used as a shower. Water going into the tub itself will not be a problem but the deck might be. You will have to waterproof the entire tub deck and side wall where it meets the shower and step, and additionally will have to pitch the deck surface slightly so no water pools on the deck surface. Additionally, you will have to have a good waterproofing method for the wall to tub deck all around the tub. Water on the tub deck will have to run into the shower, as the tub lip will prevent it from running into the tub. If water remains on the deck surface, even if the tub deck is waterproofed (it should be anyway) you have to be concerned with water penetration were the tub meets the deck. Over time, this could become a problem.

The shower area looks kinda narrow. I assume this is why you might not want a wall or glass panel between the shower and tub. From the looks of the shower width, the tub deck will see plenty of water. Not a good design or good idea in my opinion.

I'll leave the plumbing issues to Mike the Plumber.

As to the step in front of the tub that leads into the shower, you will need to have the front of the tub deck and step joint waterproofed as well as the entire step. You will need to pitch the step 1/4" per foot toward the drain if you expect water to run down the slope to the drain. Anything less, and it will not work. Additionally, the front of the step will have to be slightly higher than the back, and water will run toward the tub and the drain. You may have water running off the tub deck in that direction from the shower, and it could be more than you think.

If you must have the tub and a shower, you should find a way to make the shower wider and put up a wall or glass panel between the shower and the tub. Consider a shower with a curb (could be a step down from your tub step) and a glass door to contain the spray, and a regular 2" drain in the center of the shower. If you do this, the step to the tub should not need to slope to a drain.

Can you turn the tub around, or possibly use a smaller tub?
 
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Old 02-23-12, 01:04 PM
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Saw you post on another forum with a better color pic. That shower is definitely too narrow. Turn the tub around and put it in the corner where the shower is (between the toilet wall and back wall). Your drawing says you have 6' 3 1/2" so it should fit. Put a smaller step in front of the tub (perhaps 1' wide). Put the shower where the tub is now. It may have to be a neo angle.

For the record, you will likely use the shower a lot more than the tub. Try not to skimp on the shower.
 
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Old 02-23-12, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by HeresJohnny
Maybe. The tub is a drop in, and so is not made to be used as a shower. Water going into the tub itself will not be a problem but the deck might be. You will have to waterproof the entire tub deck and side wall where it meets the shower and step, and additionally will have to pitch the deck surface slightly so no water pools on the deck surface. Additionally, you will have to have a good waterproofing method for the wall to tub deck all around the tub. Water on the tub deck will have to run into the shower, as the tub lip will prevent it from running into the tub. If water remains on the deck surface, even if the tub deck is waterproofed (it should be anyway) you have to be concerned with water penetration were the tub meets the deck. Over time, this could become a problem.

I was planning on slopping the tub deck for drainage, maybe even doing a 45 degree angle on it. Was also already planning to waterproof it completely.

The shower area looks kinda narrow. I assume this is why you might not want a wall or glass panel between the shower and tub. From the looks of the shower width, the tub deck will see plenty of water. Not a good design or good idea in my opinion.The shower width is about 35". and you are correct about the lack of a glass panel. I'm thinking another redesign is in my future.

I'll leave the plumbing issues to Mike the Plumber.

As to the step in front of the tub that leads into the shower, you will need to have the front of the tub deck and step joint waterproofed as well as the entire step. You will need to pitch the step 1/4" per foot toward the drain if you expect water to run down the slope to the drain. Anything less, and it will not work. Additionally, the front of the step will have to be slightly higher than the back, and water will run toward the tub and the drain. You may have water running off the tub deck in that direction from the shower, and it could be more than you think.What you just described is exactly how I was going to do it. I just didn't go into that much detail in my initial post.

If you must have the tub and a shower, you should find a way to make the shower wider and put up a wall or glass panel between the shower and the tub. Consider a shower with a curb (could be a step down from your tub step) and a glass door to contain the spray, and a regular 2" drain in the center of the shower. If you do this, the step to the tub should not need to slope to a drain.

Can you turn the tub around, or possibly use a smaller tub?
I have tried a few other designs and nothing seems to work with some of the restrictions I have. Hopefully it will come to me.

I recently started using Sketchup to get a 3D image of what I am trying to do. It is helping quite a bit.

Thanks,
Greg
 
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Old 02-23-12, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by HeresJohnny
Saw you post on another forum with a better color pic. That shower is definitely too narrow. Turn the tub around and put it in the corner where the shower is (between the toilet wall and back wall). Your drawing says you have 6' 3 1/2" so it should fit. Put a smaller step in front of the tub (perhaps 1' wide). Put the shower where the tub is now. It may have to be a neo angle.

For the record, you will likely use the shower a lot more than the tub. Try not to skimp on the shower.
Can't do it. The two walls where the tub is now are full of windows. Those are the skinny blue lines on the better drawing next to the tub.

Greg
 
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Old 02-23-12, 01:19 PM
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What dimension from the wall for shower to the edge of the window?

Then from there to the wall where the tub will go?

Build a smaller deck. And I can tell you this is what you what to do. @ 9 ft you have a lot of room.

 
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Old 02-23-12, 01:45 PM
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What is the 2" orange boarder around the tub deck?

Why use a knee wall partion by the toilet when you first enter the room? It makes for a small passage way and will make the room look smaller. Additionally, since the toilet isnt in its own little room, there is no privacy anyway.

The wall between the toilet and the shower appears to be thicker (maybe framed with 2x6's). Is that the case or just an illusion?

Consider putting a glass panel on top of the tub deck between the tub and the shower to contain the water. Consider replacing the wall between the toilet and shower with a glass panel to open up the room a little. Consider an angled entrance glass door to the shower if you do this. Make that step into the tub a lot smaller. Its a lotta glass but it will be brighter and more open than all the partition walls you are proposing.

General comment, all those fixed wall partitions will make the room look smaller and darker. I think you are probably stuck with the wall beween the vanity and the tub.
 
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Old 02-23-12, 01:55 PM
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I think Mikes idea of a smaller tub deck is a good idea. It would give you a little more room for a wider shower. I'm thinking from looking at that picture that the tub and shower are probably taking up more than 9' though. That shower looks to be about 4' (but hard to tell in the pic for sure). Perhaps your shower does not need to be that big though.
 
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Old 02-23-12, 03:11 PM
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Yeah if you measure/count the tiles in post #21 you see thats about 9 ft.


Why you dont want it like that is somewhat baffling IMO.


Mike NJ
 
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Old 02-23-12, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by HeresJohnny
What is the 2" orange boarder around the tub deck?The 2" orange border is the tub deck.

Why use a knee wall partion by the toilet when you first enter the room? It makes for a small passage way and will make the room look smaller. Additionally, since the toilet isnt in its own little room, there is no privacy anyway.Was thinking of removing it for the same reason.

The wall between the toilet and the shower appears to be thicker (maybe framed with 2x6's). Is that the case or just an illusion?It is 2X6. shelves in the toilet side for TP, etc.

Consider putting a glass panel on top of the tub deck between the tub and the shower to contain the water. Consider replacing the wall between the toilet and shower with a glass panel to open up the room a little. Consider an angled entrance glass door to the shower if you do this. Make that step into the tub a lot smaller. Its a lotta glass but it will be brighter and more open than all the partition walls you are proposing.

General comment, all those fixed wall partitions will make the room look smaller and darker. I think you are probably stuck with the wall beween the vanity and the tub.
Thanks for the options. I'll draw them up on sketchup and see what I have.
 
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Old 02-23-12, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by lawrosa
Yeah if you measure/count the tiles in post #21 you see thats about 9 ft.


Why you dont want it like that is somewhat baffling IMO.


Mike NJ
I would love to make it like post #21. The problem is the without any deck is 72" + 2" deck = 74" and 2' 10" shower width. The other problem is the windows at the head of the tub and another that runs 60" down the long side of the tub.

Greg
 
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Old 02-23-12, 05:11 PM
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Possibly you can repost your sketch with actual dimensions and precise window/door areas.



Mike NJ
 
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Old 02-24-12, 05:21 AM
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Will do Mike. I think I will redo the drawing with only the required elements in it and post it.
I really do appreciate everyone help on this.

Greg
 
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Old 03-15-12, 04:32 AM
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Smile Waste

What ever you make sure the waste is at least 2'' width ........ double and triple check before you conceal all that pipework......will be such a shame to ripp it all
appart in the future purely to save a few minutes whilst constructing !

Hope it goes well , would be nice to see some of the us style here in the UK { even tho our houses are not as big as yours lol
 
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Greg, have you ruled out using a corner tub, or have you already purchased the one you're trying to fit?

I ask because we're about to gut our master bath and install a shower and tub and we chose to go with a generous 2 person corner tub with an adjacent shower due to space limitations.

I know a lot of folks on here mentioned using the shower more than the tub and designing around the shower, but if your tub gets as much use as ours then I would suggest that you stick with choosing a tub you'll enjoy that also allows you to install a complementary shower. You definitely don't want the shower to appear as if it was an afterthought.

If reworking the plumbing isn't a huge issue I would completely rearrange the design. Here's one you may have already considered (I used the same proportions as in your diagram):



Near the toilet there's even a small amount of space to reclaim for additional storage
 
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Old 03-16-12, 08:31 AM
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Ohhhh I missed your comment about the window locations. That's unfortunate, but I understand now why you wish to place the tub there.

Have you considered a corner tub? I believe the one we're planning to use is 60" on edge. You'd free up plenty of room for the adjacent shower and only need to rethink the way the cabinetry is configured nearest the tub.
 
 

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