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Removal and Reinstallation of Patio Slider


klawman213's Avatar
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03-19-17, 06:24 PM   #1 (permalink)  
Removal and Reinstallation of Patio Slider

There is a separate thread about whether or not a slider was properly installed and clicking this will take you to it. Here I would welcome the pros' thoughts on removing and reinstalling the same door. Can it be done and is it a good idea? The box box store will do it at their expense.

The specific door is an "Anderson 400 Series Frenchwood Gliding Patio Door." The installation guide is for typical, new wood framed wall construction with weather protection in place. My home is typical wood frame construction with stucco exterior and a sheetrock interior.

I am guessing it boils down to whether the door is damaged, but even if it hasn't been damaged I wonder if reinstalling it is a bad idea. I know little about doors, but this one has side flanges and a head flange. Unless I misread the instructions, they are not nailed to the house framing, but I have no idea if the installer nailed them or bent them. I suspect there may be no head flange. If there is I shouldn't be able to see it since it is covered with paper and stucco, but i believe I should see what is called a drip cap and the head flange fits into the drip cap. I doubt if you guys have the time to look at the installation guide, but here is a link to it.

Thanks

 
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03-19-17, 07:01 PM   #2 (permalink)  
It's possible that it can be removed and reinstalled. Its also possible that it may be damaged when it is removed, due to the fact that the door should have been set on top of multiple beads of sealant (see step 9). The flange is generally nailed onto the sheathing, (not specifically mentioned in the directions) but it's also possible that screws could have been substituted. The fact that your door was not installed in line with the plane if the wall leaves me wondering if the flanges were present and used, or omited, and it brings into question whether the installation was botched or whether you have an inconsistent wall thickness around this door.

New flange can be ordered, and if I were you, I would insist on new flange because it is highly likely that the flange will be damaged in the removal of the door. Also, if no flange was used, they will likely need it when they reinstall it. You say you paid for chip out installation... to me that means the ibstallers needed to chip out enough stucco to make room for a nail flange, and so the nail flange can be incorporated into the existing WRB.. that way the new flashing tape will seal the two together. (Step 23, 24)

 
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03-19-17, 11:26 PM   #3 (permalink)  
XSleeper, Thank you so much for not only giving me your thoughts but also bothering to look at the installation guide. I actually understand what you wrote as after spending quite a bit of time puzzling things out, but thinking something with no experience and confirming things with a pro makes all the difference in the world.

Your understanding is what I meant by a chipout. As it was explained to me, they are sometimes nailed to the framing but I fail to see where Andersen's instructions say anything about nailing.

As for whether or not the installer botched the job, I suppose there is no way to know if the installation was correct without looking into the belly of the beast. The Big Box store and its partners were doing a pretty good job of arguing that there was nothing wrong until a light went on somewhere in the back of my brain. It came to me that even if the install was perfect, it was botched by the mere fact that the installer failed to pull a permit. Not only is failure of a licensee to pull a permit illegal in California, the fact that none was pulled diminishes the fair market value of my home far more than the cost of another new door and its installation by a good installer. The city won't permit the door unless it is removed and reinstalled after a permit is pulled.

Your suggestion that the new installer has new flanges is an excellent one. I was going to tell them to have another door in stock in case the old new door is FUBAR. The manufacturer and vendor may balk at that, but shouldn't have a problem with swapping out the flanges.

Talking about flanges, only after posting my question did I realize that my door doesn't have a drip cap. (Figure 12 on pl 9 of installation guide.) You should be able to see where it drops down the front of the head jamb. Not there and if it isn't there then the head jamb is lacking an installation flange.

I am now curious if the side jambs were used or not, as you wonder. That or if the door was ordered a bit too large or small, even though the Big Box store took the measurements before ordering the door.

 
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03-20-17, 01:28 AM   #4 (permalink)  
Wow, CA is that bad now? Removing and replacing a door (the same type door no less) requires a permit? I can understand ADDING a door where none was before, but simple replacement? Just WOW.


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03-20-17, 03:24 PM   #5 (permalink)  
It's tough. Actually the permit is for replacing the original door, which was cheap builder's grade door, with a different kind of door. The City seems to treat if as though the Andersen was never installed. If it is to be permitted, it will be done as though it is being installed in place of the original door. I am lucky the city doesn't red tag my home.

Meanwhile, I went back and checked the Andersen on display at the bis box store and it indeed is shown with a drip cap. There is no drip cap on what was installed at my home and that means there is no head flange.

 
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03-20-17, 04:43 PM   #6 (permalink)  
Do you have the 1/4" expansion joint? (Figure 28-30). If so you should be able to cut the caulk and stick a putty knife in there and hit the fin. If it slides right in, that's a bad installation practice... (no fin), probably no flashing tape...

 
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03-20-17, 06:28 PM   #7 (permalink)  
I looked over both threads. Let me start by saying I don't install doors and windows on a regular basis.
A few points:
- I don't see why they would do a chip out if proper flashing wasn't intended, that's the whole purpose of the stucco repair. I have chipped out stucco (about 3") and inserted new flashing behind it with only little difficulty.
- Since there was already a door there, the stucco already had flashing behind it. In my case adding the new flashing over the old is a safeguard. Add to that you have silicone caulk for even more protection.

I can't see how this could diminish the value of the home, it only increases it.
As for the inspection my guess would be that they are looking at both the installation and to make sure the windows or doors comply with CA Title 24 energy saving requirements.
There are rules on efficiency and rules on percent of total fenestration allowed.


Brian

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03-21-17, 12:40 AM   #8 (permalink)  
XSleeper, Good thinking. The stucco is up against the head and side jambs without a gap otherwise probing with a putty knife to try and hit a flange (they call a fin a flange) would be a good test, but we will know soon enough when it is pulled. I may just video its removal so we have a record of just what was done.

 
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03-21-17, 12:47 AM   #9 (permalink)  
You got it. The reason for chipping out the stucco was to to allow the door to be installed with fins. These boobs were going to cut the original doors fins between the rough opening and the old doors side and head jambs with a sawzall, remove the fins from the new door, goop it up with caulking and slide it in.

 
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