$280 electric bill and we haven't moved in yet, ouch


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Old 01-06-17, 08:13 AM
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$280 electric bill and we haven't moved in yet, ouch

The first bill was around $80 and that included setup and some other junk fee so the actual usage was minimal.
The one that just came in was for $280 ...
The contractor was there working prior to the first bill and this one. Mainly walls and flooring, walls using an air compressor and a sprayer and flooring piecing together pergo by hand.
I've done tons of stuff with power tools and didn't notice any change in electric usage for the month as a whole, I can't imagine the air compressor eats up that much electricity?
Could it be how the electrician converted the two pronged outlets to three-pronged? Could it be something else? Any chance of an incorrect meter or other ideas before I throw myself in traffic?
 
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Old 01-06-17, 08:27 AM
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I would say it has to be the HVAC...its been cold lately you might have it running 24/7 in your house.

Get a smart thermostat , ecobee 3
 
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Old 01-06-17, 08:37 AM
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But do you have electric heat? You didn't say. If not, I'd say that charge is excessive. Even in the summer, when we have the air running sometimes 24/7, I don't get a bill that high.
 
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Old 01-06-17, 08:46 AM
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Depending on the system, i have an old head pump, I would say in Feb my electric bill would be $200+

Also..another note, the contractors could be bringing in 2-3 space heaters while doing the work.
 
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Old 01-06-17, 08:47 AM
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Could it be how the electrician converted the two pronged outlets to three-pronged?
Absolutely not. However you can't just convert from two prong receptacles without rewiring the whole house. Did he do that? You have a serious problem if he didn't run new wiring.

Your electric cost is important and I know that is what you asked but the two prong to three prong is the more serious issue if not done correctly.
 

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Old 01-06-17, 08:57 AM
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We need a lot more information on this one.
 
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Old 01-06-17, 11:12 AM
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oh I forgot to mention, gas heat

can I get more details on how the "rewiring" should be done ... ?
 
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Old 01-06-17, 11:18 AM
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If you had two prong receptacles, they can only be changed to three prong by either running a ground wire so the circuit now actually has a ground or by adding a GFCI and marking the receptacles as GFCI protected.
 
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Old 01-06-17, 11:30 AM
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I have a number of rental properties. When a tenant moves out I'll often have the power turned on in the companies name to do cleaning and maintenance. The power is usually on for a couple weeks and I get bills less than $50.

This fall I had two properties where the tenants stayed 4-6 months. So I went through the power on/off cycle pretty close together. This spring I have bills for 1-2 week periods of about $40 with fees. I did the same thing is fall and one house only had the power on for three days and accrued a bill of over $300 and the other was around $250 for two weeks... with nobody living there and no heat or AC. You tell me how a vacant house with 100 amp service can consume so much power in three days. Needless to say I've started a procedure where I read the meter before and after activating and deactivating service. I've caught my power company making "meter reading errors" three times in the last four months of 2016.

In previous years this problem never occurred. Then in the latter part of this year a "meter reading error" has occurred on every house, every time. Like the phone and cable companies I think things are being done. If the consumer catches it they will remove or refund it. If the consumer is not vigilant and doesn't catch it well then they've made some extra money.
 
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Old 01-06-17, 11:35 AM
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Is the water heater also gas? By gas heat do you mean a gas forced air furnace?

can I get more details on how the "rewiring" should be done ... ?
Open one of the converted receptacles and pull it out. Take pictures of the wiring and receptacle. Post the pictures here.

Note correctly adding grounding would probably cost in excess of a thousand dollars for a whole house. If it was less then five hundred it would be suspect. One wrong way I have seen done is they just ground the receptacle to the metal box it is in but in reality the metal box either has no ground because ungrounded cable was used or an inadequate ground because old style BX cable was used for wiring.
 
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Old 01-06-17, 02:09 PM
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We need to know the actual kilowatt-hour readings from your electric statement. The total bill doesn't really mean much as the per-kwh rate and the taxes are very different around the nation. Average across the US is 900 kwh per month, but that also will vary significantly based on your central heating/cool system, water heat and refrigeration units. Also verify you're billed on actual meter readings not estimates; many power companies estimate monthly bills and only do physical reads a couple times a year.
 
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Old 01-06-17, 06:18 PM
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If an approved grounding method is present, changing to grounded receptacles is a fairly easy task. However having an approved grounding method in an old house is kind of uncommon.
 
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Old 01-06-17, 07:14 PM
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house is 1956, how do i determine if an approved grounding is present?
 
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Old 01-06-17, 07:24 PM
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As I said earlier open a receptacle box, pull the receptacle out and post pictures here of the wires. Are you in Washington D.C.? Do have conduit not cable? If so it is probably okay if the electrician grounded to the box.

Please add your location to your profile. Sometimes location is important to the questions we ask.
 
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Old 01-06-17, 08:48 PM
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The cable coming out of the wall only has two wires, a black and a white, a separate ground wire was run from the receptacle to the junction box. Annandale VA
 
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Old 01-06-17, 09:43 PM
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Is the cable BX or NM? Sounds like he did not actually ground the receptacles and just created a code violation. Was he a licensed electrician?

BX Cable
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NM cable
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Old 01-06-17, 09:56 PM
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if bx means metal casing and nm means plastic casing then i have nm
 
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Old 01-06-17, 10:16 PM
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Sounds like he did not actually ground the receptacles and just created a code violation.
But in an earlier post he said the guy ran a separate ground back to the panel?

I asked about similar at my ex-fil's house and was told it was legal?
 
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Old 01-06-17, 10:52 PM
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But in an earlier post he said the guy ran a separate ground back to the panel?
I stand corrected if he wrote that. I missed it. Just ran a search for it and still didn't see it. Which post did he write that?
nm means plastic casing then i have nm
Pull the breaker panel cover. If there are a large number of #16 (yes, slightly smaller then the usual #14) bare copper wires then you have old style box grounding. If not then the receptacles aren't grounded unless he ran a green or bare wire into every receptacle box in addition to the jumper in the box.
 
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Old 01-06-17, 11:34 PM
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Post 15, just before yours with the pictures.

Ahhh, but I understand. He said "junction box" I read "breaker panel". If he just ran a ground to the box from the receptacle, I can understand why that would be no good.
 
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Old 01-07-17, 12:31 AM
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His only hope, and a slim one given the year the house was built, is that there are grounds under the cable clamps. Not sure when that was common before they went to full size grounds inside the box. He will either need to use a multimeter or look in the breaker box.
 
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Old 01-07-17, 06:47 AM
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i'll take off the panel and snap pictures later but in the interim can i safely swap one of the 3-pronged for a gfci?
 
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Old 01-07-17, 07:33 AM
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can i safely swap one of the 3-pronged for a gfci?
Yes, but it needs to be labeled No Equipment Ground with one of the stickers that comes with the GFCI. The 3 prong receptacles are safe to use till you can get the mistake corrected, just don't count on them for a ground. The bigger issue is if you paid someone to do this you need to get your money back.

Sorry we have gotten sidetracked from your original question.
 
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Old 01-07-17, 06:50 PM
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What was your actual KWH Usage and cost per KWH? Electric water heater?

It would be helpful if you posted a pic of your bill if you are confused by the terminology.

I work for an electric utility and part of my job is to investigate high bill complaints. Some of the things I have seen over the years

1. You said you have gas heat, I have actually seen a central air unit hooked up wrong by a contractor and the central air would run when the heat was turned on.

2. I have seen a septic system lift pump or aerator pump (I cant remember) that stuck on or was running alot.

3. Empty house, neighbors running a cord and stealing power.

So many things can be going on,
 
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Old 01-07-17, 07:52 PM
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CivicM thanks for the list. Hopefully it will help the poster find the problem.
 
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Old 01-09-17, 12:49 PM
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Gas water heater. On hold with power co but the first tier support can't explain the bill to me and transferred up to a sup, wait time is 27 mins ...
 
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Old 01-09-17, 01:38 PM
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Hang in there. Let us know what they eventually say.
 
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Old 01-09-17, 04:16 PM
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Have you turned off breakers one at a time or a few at a time to see which circuit is spinning the electric meter really fast?
 
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Old 01-09-17, 04:36 PM
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Well, your actual electric bill is about $205 not $279. You have a deposit installment charge of $74 which may not have been on the first bill if they didn't get it processed quickly enough after you started the service. Or your first bill could have been ALL fees and charges with no actual electrical usage.

You also have 70kWh to finish out the prior billing period. That wouldn't be much, but would affect all the charges and fees as well. See where it says days this billing period? 42? It will normally be much closer to 30 I imagine.

So your bill of $205 is paying for 42 days. Some increased usage due to the contractor maybe, but depending on a few other factors, I don't see it as excessive at all. The contractor had a compressor and probably a saw, and maybe he was using those 1000W worklights? You may have gone over a threshold where they charge more above a certain usage. I pay on 2 tiers. Up to 400kWh is one price, above that is another (I think those are the numbers).

Dominion Power or Northern Electric?
 
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Old 01-09-17, 05:31 PM
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Dominion, worklights yes, I'll turn off the breakers and see which, one by one, creates the most "movement" on the meter
 
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Old 01-10-17, 07:44 AM
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Dominion said it's not high enough to send someone out to evaluate.
They also said a bad meter would only give a lesser reading (in the customer's favor).
 
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Old 01-10-17, 11:24 AM
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I'd recommend you wait for your Jan bill and see what it says. You never mentioned the size/age of the home. Any obvious big power users? Spa, range, etc?
 
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Old 01-10-17, 01:57 PM
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range stovetop yes but again not used during that period. no spa. 1956, single level, slab on grade, 1632 sq ft
 
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Old 01-11-17, 05:45 AM
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Update: the 1632 sq ft includes a screened in patio room that isn't climate controlled, off the top I'd guess that's about 400 sq ft (it's a big area) so the climate controlled area would be ~1250 sq ft.

I have an HVAC guy coming later today to evaluate the system to see if an improper configuration (apparently there's an electric component to gas heat) could be drawing more electricity than it should
 
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Old 01-11-17, 05:53 AM
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An electric component to gas heat? Well, there are things like the igniter, control board. and fan. But that's about it, unless you look at the whole system which includes A/C. Like someone mentioned earlier the A/C could be coming on, but you'd probably notice really lukewarm air and the system running forever to reach setpoint.
 
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Old 01-11-17, 07:03 AM
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That sounds like a heat pump with gas backup. It uses electric in moderate heating periods, but switches to gas when too cold.
 
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Old 01-11-17, 05:49 PM
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The HVAC system appears to be the culprit.
Much to my embarrassment the contractor told me it was a fully electric system and showed me the spot in the utility room where the gas boiler had been removed. He also showed me pictures of all the leaking areas in the existing electrical HVAC system. But now the question is whether I should get a gas boiler and use gas? The only thing that seemed odd to me was that there were a number of pipes that he said were going under the concrete and heating up the concrete and that is how heat got to the rooms?
I've never heard of such a thing. How efficient could that possibly be where gas heat runs through a pipe to heat up the concrete floor and that's what keeps a room warm...He showed me a series of pipes that pretty much corresponded to the various rooms
 
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Old 01-11-17, 06:08 PM
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This isn't the same contractor who ripped you off on the receptacles is it?
 
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Old 01-11-17, 07:32 PM
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Also note that electric usage cost was actually only 151.29 I believe.

I believe the 47.49 Distribution service fee is your "meter charge", You may check but I think that amount you will pay even if you do not use any electricity. That is the cost the utility figures as a bare minimum to bring electricity to your house and have it available even if you don't use any that month.

It is a higher fee than is typical in Indiana, But not totally out of line.

Meter charges around here range from 10 a month to 37 a month depending on the utility.
 
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Old 01-11-17, 07:35 PM
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FWIW

My parents have a 37 dollar meter charge, plus a 10 dollar security light charge, plus tax, so their monthly bill is 50 dollars minimum even if they dont turn the first light on in the house.
 
 

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