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Range/Stove/Oven/Broiler Info, Leak Detection, Fault Codes, Fuel Conversion & Links


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02-21-04, 08:10 AM   #1 (permalink)  
Range/Stove/Oven/Broiler Info, Leak Detection, Fault Codes, Fuel Conversion & Links

Hello and Welcome to the "Gas Appliances" forum topic.

Below is basic help information pertaining to ranges, stoves, ovens and broilers. Taken from multiple sources, basic appliance diagnostic services, minor repair methods and procedures for the do it yourself handy persons.

It's highly suggested reading the owners manual, a repair manual, the manufacturers web site for problem causes, service and or repair instructions in down loadable PDF files and the basics before assuming there is a mechanical problem or part failure prior to attempting any repairs.

Safety Concerns:
If you smell gas, do not try to light pilots, if you are not positive a pilot light is the cause of the odor. If you smell gas at, near or around any appliances and are not sure you know where it is coming from, get help.

Do not turn on or turn off any electrical switch. Immediately contact your gas supplier. If you cannot contact the gas supplier, call the local fire department. Do not use or store gasoline, flammable liquids or any products which produce flammable vapors near any gas appliance.

TOP BURNERS:
Top burners that do not light from a pilot flame or from properly operating ignition sparker's, is more likely and most often caused by restricted ignition ports.

If the sparker's are functioning and the burners won't lite, chances are the burner head openings and or ignition ports on the burner heads are clogged up with debris.

If this is the case, the flames will not burn completely around the entire circumference of the burner head. The burner head openings which do not have flames are clogged up and need cleaning.

If the pilot flame and or sparking igniter is located between two separate burner heads. Each burner having a tube (flash tube) extending from it leading to the pilot or spark igniter.

Top burners that do not light entirely around the circumference of the top burner head have blocked and or restricted burner ports. The ports are the holes, slots or openings the flames appear through. Ignition ports can be found on the side of the burner head where the pilot or sparker is located.

Not all top burners have ignition ports. Some have direct ignition. Direct ignition means the sparking element is located directly in-line and across from the burner head. Most often cleaning and clearing any restrictions in the ignition ports or burner ports resolves ignition and burner problems.

Ignition ports are tiny holes up one side of the burner head. If these holes are restricted, they must be cleared out. Cleaning can be accomplished using sewing pin needle. Do not enlarge the ignition holes. Doing so will have adverse burner lighting effects.

In cases of extremely dirty burner heads, soaking the burners in very hot water with plenty of dissolved automatic dishwasher detergent for several hours, rinsing and drying or a combination of both methods for heavily soiled burners.

In some cases, burners can or must be removed. There will be tiny screws securing the burners to the stove. The screws must be removed. There is also likely to be a tab at the burner head. The tabbed end will fit into a slot to secure that end.

The other end of the burner tube will be slipped over the orifice on the gas manifold. Removing a burner is a simple process of removing one attaching screw and slipping out the entire burner.

Once the 4 burners are removed, turn them upside down in the dishwashers rack and wash with other pots and pans items as usual. If there is a heavy amount of debris either on the burners or in the ports or slots, a common straight pin needle can be used to pre-clean before these parts are put into the dishwasher. Only precaution is not to enlarge the holes or slots.

The dish washing cleaning detergent will help to clean the burner heads, etc. The drying process will automatically dry the burners as it does the rest of of any items normally washed in the dishwasher.

Once this process is completed, simply reverse the removal process to reinstall the burners being sure to install each burner back into it's exact location and exactly as it was originally installed.

If the burner openings appear not to have gas coming out of them, try lighting the burner with a match. If the burner fails to lite because there isn't any gas coming out of the burner head, there may be a restriction in the burner tube or the brass orifice.

If the above is the case, clear the burner tube. If the brass orifice is clogged up, clear it with a pin but do not remove it, if possible nor enlarge the openings.

TOP BURNER CONSTANT BURNING PILOTS:
Constant burning pilots must be correctly sized and burning properly. A properly burning pilot flame will have a blue base. Many will have a tiny yellow tip. The entire flame size should be about the size of a stick match head.

The cup surrounding the flame must be cleaned and the air holes around the cups base must be opened and cleared of debris. Many pilot cup assemblies have stems from which the flame burns. The stem must be fully cleared of debris.

Clearing the stem can be accomplished by extinguishing the flame and leaving the gas on. Inserting a fine piece of wire into the stem often works best. Careful attention must be taken to avoid breaking the stem. Upon completion, simply re lite the flame.

TOP BURNER ELECTRIC SPARK IGNITER'S:
Failures of electric spark ignitions to function at all and or operate in any sporadic or erratic manner can be caused by several possibilities. Below is the most common of possible problem possibilities.

When one or more sparker's sparks continuously, it's possible one of the switches on the top burner valves is stuck in the closed position completing the circuit.

Determining which one requires the removal of the wires attached to the switch's, each one done separately and individually, one at a time. A continuity test can also determine which sparker switch is defective. The electrical power must be turned off prior to testing.

Any one of the individual sparker's could be a defective part. Each sparker has a wire that pulls off the sparker's element body. The one that stops the sparking is most likely the culprit.

If all the sparker's are sparking when the stove isn't in operation, the most likely cause is a defective capacitor in the spark module. The entire spark module must be replaced.

Spark modules are non serviceable and non repairable. Replacements are available at any local appliance retail parts store listed in the phone book.

Another possibility causing sparker's to spark continuously, is moisture during a recent cleaning process found it's way onto one or more of the switches. Excessively wet sponges or cleaning cloths allow water and or excessive moisture to get onto the switches.

If this happens to be the case, drying out the moisture often corrects this condition. Remove the knobs and lift the lid, if applicable. Not all stoves have lift able top lids.

Remove any clear plastic covers on the valve stems, if applicable and pass warm air over the switches using a hair blow dryer. The idea here is to dry out the moisture, if there is any.

Another cause could be reversed electrical polarity. The plug end will have 3 prongs. It must be directly connected into a properly wired and grounded wall receptacle. Not all wall outlet receptacles are properly grounded.

Reversed electrical polarity will damage the spark module. Which can cause the sparker's to spark continuously when the appliance is not in use or not spark at all. A new module replacement must be installed. The electrical problem at the wall receptacle corrected.

Do not use 2 prong extension cords to lengthen the existing appliances 3 prong electrical cord. Do not bypass the grounding pin on the end of the appliances electrical cord. Damage to the spark module will result.

COMMON OVEN and BROILER PROBLEMS:
Oven burners that do not lite from the there ignition sources, regardless of which type of ignition source is used, can be caused by several factors. Every variation in details would be too much to provide here in one article.

One of the most common causes for burner ignition failures is the fact that natural gas contains trace chemicals which does not burn completely. Not burning completely leaves behind residues, in the form of a white powdery substance.

Cleaning the burners ignition and burner ports of this residue, near the ignition source, often restores proper burner ignition operation.

Burners made of iron or cast iron deteriorate. Minor deposits of 'Rust and Corrosion' must be removed to insure proper operations. Rust and scale deposits can be removed with steel wool or a wire brush. Burner removal is often required to accomplish this task.

Burners made of metal and coated with a polished chrome like finish also deteriorate, corrode and rust as the coating finish wears. Cleaning can be best accomplished, as mentioned above.

For cases of severe burner distortions, do to age, rusting, scalings & deteriorations, the entire burner must be replaced to restore proper ignition, flame characteristics and heat distribution.

Burners made of aluminum are prone to all of the same conditions as metal burners. Aluminum burners are also prone to warping from the heat generated. Warping requires burner replacement. Cleaning can be accomplished in the same manner as iron or cast iron burners.

Whether the appliance has a hot surface glow bar igniter or any type of pilot lighting ignition system where the burner fails to light or does not light completely around the entire length of the burner, clearing and cleaning the restrictions near the ignition source and the burner slots, holes or ports insures positive lighting and burning.

Oven burners also have crossover ports. Cross over ports or slots allow the burner flames to light both sides of the burner. If a burner fails to light on both sides of the burner or completely around the burner, the cross-over ports or slots are blocked or restricted.

Cross-over ports or slots are either near the ignition source or somewhere along the length of the burner. When an oven burner fails to light completely around the burner or on both sides of the burner, check all ports and or slots for any obstructions on the entire oven burner. Doing so will ensure proper ignition, no gas smell and even heating in the baking compartment.

Symptoms of burners which fail to burn completely around and or along there entire burner surface can usually be seen through the broiler or ovens glass viewing window to help pre determine there location. In all cases, the smell of gas while the oven burner is on can be detected. Neither instance is safe. The condition must be corrected immediately.

OVEN & BROILER HOT SURFACE GLOWING IGNITER'S: (HSI)
Do not assume the hot surface glow igniter isn't turning on or functioning simply because it fails to glow. Always check the control panel for proper settings and selections before beginning repairs or part replacements.

Be sure there is electrical power to the appliance. Be sure the clock is set in manual operation, if the clock has this option. Be sure all control functions and selections are properly set, not set in a timed bake selection or keep warm cycle. Set to the manual selection.

A properly functioning hot surface glow bar igniter will glow an intense bright yellow orange in color. Too much orange, any reddish color or a dull orange color indicates the glow coil is weak. A weak coil needs to be replaced just as much as a burned out non functioning coil in order for the burner to operate correctly.

Hot surface ignites last on average only a few years. Older parts should be replaced, if suspected of not functioning properly. Hot surface glow ignites are typically the most common causes for ovens and or broilers not to function.

Hot surface glow ignites are electrical using devices which are non refundable parts. Be sure the hot surface igniter is the cause of the problem. They are also one of the easiest parts to replace as a first line attempt to correct some problems.

Ovens with touch pad controls use electronic computerized circuit boards. The entire circuit board could be removed and taken to the local appliance parts dealer for testing and or replacement.

Some manufacturers install fuses in the electrical circuitry. Fuses can become weak, burn out or blow out. Check for fuses and test them for continuity.

Replacement with a new fuse insures proper operation. Be aware that appliances fuses are not ordinary fuses. They are a specialty part, specifically made and designed for the intended purpose.

Continuous Clean Oven Repair and Care:
http://doityourself.com/gasapp/ovencontinuous.htm

Conventional Oven Repair and Care:
http://doityourself.com/gasapp/ovencare.htm

SQUEAKY DOOR HINGES:
Prior Questions Asked And Replied To On This Subject:

http://forum.doityourself.com/editpo...&postid=561050

http://forum.doityourself.com/showth...hreadid=153135

TIP:
Bare in mind, the only positive proof any part is functioning correctly, is to carefully remove the part or parts you suspect to be the potential culprits. Have the local appliance parts store person test or inspect to help make the final determination. Doing so will save time & money replacing unneeded and non returnable parts.

CAUTIONS & CONSIDERATIONS:
If you attempt to do any repairs, be sure the electrical power is turned off or the appliance is unplugged. Turn off the gas at a shut-off valve on the gas inlet supply pipe.

If you choose not to do the repairs yourself, contact the dealer's local service agency. Professional service with a labor and parts warranty may be advisable in some cases and for some complex appliances & problems or conditions.

Some gas supply companies provide some or all services. Contact your gas supplier to inquire. Their phone number will be on the billing statement. Basic maintenance procedures are given in the manufacturers provided owners manual.

SUGGESTIONS:
Read the manufacturers online web site for product information, problem causes, solving methods, part locations, repair procedures, pictorials, schematics, down loadable repair and or owners manuals which may be available online.

Questions and answers pertaining to gas piping and connections to appliances can can found in the Plumbing Forum:
http://forum.doityourself.com/forumd...php?forumid=31

DIY'S Gas Appliances Pages:
Ranges, Stoves, Ovens and Appliance Tips.
http://doityourself.com/gasapp/index.shtml

DIY Links:
http://links.doityourself.com/
http://links.doityourself.com/links/appliances/

Consumer Reports Homepage:
http://www.consumerreports.org/main/home.jsp

Consumer Reports Appliances:
http://www.consumerreports.org/main...D=1119643966105

Manufacturers Web Sites:

Sears Home Page Site:
http://www.sears.com

Sears Search Site:
http://www3.sears.com

Whirlpool's Home Web Site: (Also makes appliances for Sears)
http://www.whirlpool.com

May-tag Appliance Home Page:
http://www.maytag.com
May tag 1-800-688-9900 USA
May tag 1-800-688-2002 Canada
May tag is also the manufacturer of Amana, Jenn-Air, Magic Chef and Caloric Appliances.

General Electric:
http://www.ge.com

Whirlpool:
http://www.whirlpool.com

Jen Air:
http://www.jennair.com

Amana:
http://www.amana.com

Bosch:
http://www.boschappliances.com

Roper:
http://www.roperappliances.com

Peerless-Premier Ranges Home Page
http://www.premierrange.com/index.htm

Kitchenaid:
http://www.kitchenaid.com

Miele:
http://www.miele.co

Electrolux:
http://www.electrolux.com

Frigidaire:
http://www.frigidare.com

Staber:
http://www.staber.com


Regards and Good Luck.
Web Site Admin, Moderator Hiring Agent, Host and Forums Manager. Energy Conservation Consultant & Natural Gas Appliance Diagnostics and Repair Technician. Fast, Fair, Friendly and Highly Proficient...

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Not only is a mind a terrible thing to waste, it's like a parachute.

It doesn't function until it's OPEN.........

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Gun safety is using BOTH hands!

Driving Safety Reminder:
Buckle Up & Drive Safely.
"The Life You Save, May Be Your Own."


Last edited by Sharp Advice; 10-30-07 at 07:17 AM. Reason: Updating. 10-30-2007
 
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11-17-04, 08:14 PM   #2 (permalink)  
Oven Fault Codes

Whirlpool:
Range/Stove Oven Fault Codes, Common
F5 - E0 F5 - E1 and E2 - Check door/latch switch - Replace switch if defective.

Range/Stove Oven Fault Codes, Common
F3 - Oven too hot - Replace oven temperature sensor
F3 - Clean temp too hot - Replace oven temperature sensor.

MAGIC CHEF:
Range, Stove, Oven Fault Codes:
F3 F4 - Open or shorted oven temperature sensor - Part Needs Replacement.

MAGIC CHEF
Range/Stove/Oven Fault Codes
F5 - Hardware and watchdog circuits disagree - Replace clock assembly (also called the ERC).

MAYTAG
Type "C" and "D" Clocks Range/Stove/Oven Fault Codes
F5 - Supervisory relay enable open (cook mode); sounds alarm and resets the control to non-cook mode - Replace electronic range control (ERC).

MAYTAG
Range/Stove/Oven Fault Codes
F5 - Hardware and watchdog circuits disagree - Replace clock assembly (also called the ERC).

ROPER
Range/Stove/Oven Fault Codes
NOTE: Not valid for Y line. If there is a Y near the end of your model number, do not use this chart.

F1 & E1 - Safety flip flop - Replace Electronic Range Control/Clock (ERC)

F0 or F1 or F5 - Failed Electronic Range Control (ERC) - Replace Electronic Range Control/Clock (ERC)

F2 or E0 - Oven temp too high
1. Test operation of door lock on self-clean models
2. Test relay contact operation
3. High resistance in oven temperature sensor

ROPER
Range/Stove Oven- Alternative 2 Digit Fault Codes

F1 - Analog to Digital Failure Disconnect for 30 seconds - if display re-appears - replace control
F1 - Safety flip flop - Replace component
F1 - Shorted keypad - Replace component

F2 - Oven temperature sensor shorted - Replace oven temperature sensor

ROPER
Range/Stove Oven BES, BEP models

F2 - Bake/Clean temperature runaway alarm
1. Allow unit to sit for one hour to cool down
2. Place oven temperature sensor in a glass of ice water
3. Measure oven temperature sensor resistance. The oven temperature sensor should measure about 1000 ohms while in the ice water
If the oven temperature sensor is good but the problem remains replace the electronic range control (ERC)
If the oven temperature sensor is bad, replace it.

Roper
Range/Stove 24" Built-In Self-Clean Wall Oven

F2 - Oven temperature above specifications - 8-pin connector oven temperature sensor to the Electronic Range Control (ERC)

GENERAL ELECTRIC FAULT CODES:
GE Fault Codes Older Models:

Display Condition Repair
F0 and F1 Failed Thermistor Control Replace ERC

F2 Oven Temp Exceeds 590 w/unlocked door High restistance or interference in sensor.

F3 Open sensor circuit Measure, should be approx. 1100 ohms

F8 Component failure Replace Control

F9 Program w/door circuit. Check Wiring.

Older GE Model Codes 1999 & Back:

Failure Code Meaning Suspect/Check FFF Control Error, Failed EEPROM Replace Control

FO or F7 Shorted Clear/Off Key due to membrane switch, Control or connector Shorted key panel membrane switch ERC

F2 During Bake Control senses oven temp above 615 degrees F High resistance connection in sensor circuit.

ERC- Welded bake relay contacts.
Both lock switch 1 & 2 closed at the same time.

F3 Open sensor, Sensor resistance exceeds 2900 ohms during Bake, Broil or Clean Sensor/ Sensor Circuit connections.

F4 Shorted sensor, Sensor resistance less than 2900 ohms during Bake, Broil or Clean Sensor/ Sensor Circuit connections.

FF Door motor saftey ciruit ERC

Generic Fault Codes:
F5 - E0 F5 - E1 and E2 - Check door/latch switch - Replace component.


Regards and Good Luck.
Web Site Admin, Moderator Hiring Agent, Host and Forums Manager. Energy Conservation Consultant & Natural Gas Appliance Diagnostics and Repair Technician. Fast, Fair, Friendly and Highly Proficient...

Don't Take Freedom For Granted. Thank A Veteran. Need an Employee? Hire a Veteran

Not only is a mind a terrible thing to waste, it's like a parachute.

It doesn't function until it's OPEN.........

Elvis. "The Sun Never Sets On A Legend."

Gun safety is using BOTH hands!

Driving Safety Reminder:
Buckle Up & Drive Safely.
"The Life You Save, May Be Your Own."

 
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11-19-04, 05:22 PM   #3 (permalink)  
Oven Gas Odors-Only When Oven Is On-Information

Ovens that have a gas odor only when on, do so for three common reasons.

1)
The aluminium tube that supplies gas to the burner gas valve usually comes from the thermostat. Which means, on some models, the burner gas flows through the thermostat to the burner. One those models the likely hood is the tubing nuts are leaking. No gas flows throguh the tube(s) unless the oven is on and the burner flames are visable.

2)
The burner itself is not adjusted correctly or not all the ports (holes or slots) in the burner have flames coming out of them. The ones without flames may not be lit but gas is still coming out of them. They cannot light because one or more of them is clogged with debris so that hole, slot or port isn't light and cannot light the next one down the line.

3)
One side of the burner is light but not the other side of the burner. That's because the cross over port, holes and or slot is clogged up. Which means the pilot or ignition lights one side of the burner only. The other side lights from the cross over port to light the opposite side of the burner.

The cleaning aspect you are likely to be able to resolve. Be sure all holes, or slots on the burner has flames. Those which do not are clogged. Clean them to open them. Same applies to the cross over ports, holes or slot.

The leak at the tubing nuts will require you tighten the nuts. Using caution so as not to break or damage the part the nut screws into. Will need a backup wrench or grips to hold the part inplace while tightening the nut(s).

Best leak detection method is to use "Leak Detection Soap." Mix per instructions. Not having that, a soapy water solution made from commonly used dish soap will do fine. A slightly thick mixture to insure the soapy water remains on the parts and will still allow bubbles to form. A small cupful will do fine for the purpose.

Retail appliance parts dealers can also help determine what the possible problem may be. Bring the make, model and serial numbers. Appliance part stores and dealers are listed in the phone book.


Regards and Good Luck.
Web Site Admin, Moderator Hiring Agent, Host and Forums Manager. Energy Conservation Consultant & Natural Gas Appliance Diagnostics and Repair Technician. Fast, Fair, Friendly and Highly Proficient...

Don't Take Freedom For Granted. Thank A Veteran. Need an Employee? Hire a Veteran

Not only is a mind a terrible thing to waste, it's like a parachute.

It doesn't function until it's OPEN.........

Elvis. "The Sun Never Sets On A Legend."

Gun safety is using BOTH hands!

Driving Safety Reminder:
Buckle Up & Drive Safely.
"The Life You Save, May Be Your Own."

 
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11-12-05, 05:29 AM   #4 (permalink)  
Fuel Conversion Information HERE

NATURAL GAS TO PROPANE GAS:

If the stove is currently set up to burn natural gas and currently connected to propane, the burners would burn very large, appear or actually burn yellow, because the burner orifices holes are too large. Natural gas orifices have holes sized for natural gas, which are too large for propane fuel.

To convert the stove to propane, the orifices must be either replaced or turned in-wards to reduce the hole size. In some cases the orifices can be screwed opened or closed to adjust the burners flame size but not always. Some orifices are non adjustable. They turn but no adjustment results. In these cases, orifice replacements are needed.

On most older stoves the orifices are adjustable while on some they still are not adjustable. The orifices are the brass or bronze hex nuts onto which the burner tubes are set. There is also adjustable air shutters on each burner tube at all the burners.

To make the conversion where orifice replacement is required, the first thing you have to know is what the burners are rated at. Inside or on the stove somewhere is a plate containing all the required information. Once you have this information, write down the stoves information and visit the local retail appliance parts store for replacement parts. The appliance stores counter service person will be able to determine orifice sizes required.

Another item that will need attention, is the gas regulator. This part is located where the incoming fuel line is connected to the appliance. If the existing regulator isn't convertible between natural gas and propane, the part will also need to be replaced. Failure to convert or replace the regulator for the type of gas used will create burner operational problem, etc.

Another item the has to be set correctly is the ovens thermostat. Most of these have a set screw on the body of the thermostat near the stem behind the temp knob. The screw will be labled...N or Nat for natural gas. P or LP for propane. Turn the set screw to the type of fuel used.

Suggestions:
Read the manufacturers online web site for product information, problem possibilities, causes and solving methods, part locations, disassembly, reassembly methods, repair procedures and instructions, fuel type conversions, pictorials and schematics, which may be available online.

An excellent source for original replacement parts is your local retail appliance parts store. Appliance parts dealers carry replacement parts for all appliances. Parts dealers are listed in the phone book under appliances.

Read the prior postings on this fuel conversion topic, within this forum and the replies offered within them. You'll find instructions to make the conversion already in them.

PROPANE TO NATURAL GAS:

What has to be done is a conversion to propane from natural gas. Which means all the existing burner orifices have to be replaced with propane orifices. Or screwed in wards to reduce the burners flame size. Propane gas orifices have holes sized for propane fuel, which is too small for natural gas fuel. The appliance regulator has to be converted also.

Later model stoves have regulators that are convertible. It's simply a matter of turning over the tower cap on the regulator. Some appliance regulators have levers or set screws that have to be turned from one position to another. Look for the letter markings, "LP" or "Nat." Older stoves that do not have convertible regulators, the entire regulator must be replaced.

Failure to convert the appliance from natural gas to propane, while using propane, will result in excessively large burner flames, which will cause soot and produce carbon monoxides, etc. Best bet is to convert the appliance before connecting it to the new fuel source.

Read the prior postings on this fuel conversion topic, within this forum, for other postings and the replies offered. You'll find instructions to make the conversion already posted.

NATURAL GAS TO PROPANE:

What has to be done is a conversion from natural gas to propane gas. Which means all the existing burner orifices have to be replaced with propane gas orifices and the appliance regulator has to be converted also. The reverse of above.

Later model stoves have regulators that are convertible. It's simply a matter of turning over the tower cap on the regulator. Some appliance regulators have levers or set screws that have to be turned from one position to another. Look for the letter markings, "LP" or "Nat" on the regulator body. Older stoves that do not have convertible regulators, the entire regulator must be replaced.

Failure to convert the appliance from natural gas to propane, while using propane, will result in excessively large burner flames, which will cause soot and produce carbon monoxides, etc. Best bet is to convert the appliance before connecting it to the new fuel source.

Excellent Web Site Pages Regarding Fuel Conversions From Natural Gas to Propane Gas:

Propane Gas Informational Pages Here:
Energy Web Sites Home Page:
Home Page

Energy Web Sites Propane Gas Orifice Sizing Here:
Chapter 9 - System Installations

Oven and broiler burner adjustments:

Flames should be not more than one inch from the outer edges of the flame spreader. The flame spreader is the flat plate the sets on top of the burner tube. Adjust the orifice in wards or out wards until the flame tips are about 1 and 1/2 inches to 2 inches in wards from the outer edges of flame spreader is ideal.

If the flames appear yellow or have yellowed tips, adjust the air shutter on the burner just above the orifice to allow slightly more air to enter. But not so much to cause flames to lift off of the burner and blow out wards with force.

Read the prior postings on this fuel conversion topic, within this forum, for other postings and the replies offered. You'll find instructions to make the conversion already posted.

OVEN THERMOSTATS PILOT LIGHT FUEL TYPE CONVERSIONS:

There should be 2 markings on the valve body indicating each of the fuel positions. "LP" or just "P" for propane and NAT or "N" for natural. The markings and the set screw will be to one side of the temperatures control stem after the temperature dial is removed. There may also be a tiny lever or set screw on the thermostat control valve. This valve will be behind the thermostats temperature knob.

To gain access to it, remove the thermostats temperature knob by pulling it forward. Then look behind the knob for either of the two conversion markings. Use a screw driver blade to set the slotted set screw to the correct fuel type.

If screwing down the oven/broiler orifice did not control the size of the burner flames, that orifice is not likely to be an adjustable one. Here is a means to determine if that orifice is or is not adjustable. The burner needs to be removed from the gas control valve. The burners tube ending sits on the gas valve.

The other end of the burner is secured to the front of the oven. Rests on a ledge or lip at the base of the access door. There will be a cotter pin or a screw securing it. Whichever it is, remove it. Than remove the burner by lifting it up and off the gas valve at the back of the oven/broiler area. Once removed, that brass or bronze hex nut thimble looking part will be the orifice. (Usually made of either brass or bronze).

Unscrew orifice off the gas valve and remove it. Stuck into the gas valve should be a pointed raised cone or sphere like part. If one is there, the orifice is adjustable. If none is there, the orifice is not adjustable. In this instance, the orifice needs to be replaced with an LP orifice. Note the Btu rating for that specific burner on the rate plate.

Burner orifices can be obtained any local appliance parts store, a replacement orifice can be obtained for the specific Btu rating of a size for propane fuel. Appliance parts dealers are listed in the phone book.

Once obtained, install that "LP" orifice exactly as the other one was. Reinstall burner exactly as it was found prior to removal. Turn new orifice opened about 6 full turns from the lightly seated and closed down position.

Relight pilot. Test burner flame size. Flames should not exceed flame spreader plate which is on top of burner attached with a wing nut. Flames should be not more than one inch from the outer edges of the flame spreader. In wards 1 and 1/2 inches to 2 inches in wards from the outer edges of flame spreader is ideal.

If the flames appear yellow or have yellowed tips, adjust the air shutter on the burner just above the orifice to allow slightly more air to enter. But not so much to cause flames to lift off of the burner and blow out wards with force. Once correct orifice opening is set and the air shutter is set....your set...job done.

Be sure the electrical power to the appliance is turned off, before attempting any repairs. Always check for gas leaks when reconnecting any gas part or any gas connection you removed and you re-installed.

Regards & Good Luck. Web Site Host, Forums Monitor, Gas Appliances Topic Moderator & Multiple Forums Moderator. Natural Gas Appliance Diagnostics Technician.

Personal Safety Reminder:
Buckle Up & Drive Safely.
"The Life You Save, May Be Your Own."...


Last edited by Sharp Advice; 02-21-10 at 08:05 AM. Reason: Retitled and Inclusion of Fuel Conversion Info Links.
 
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11-30-05, 08:35 AM   #5 (permalink)  
Hot Surface Glow Ignitors (HSI) & Gas Valves Info.

Used In Ovens and/or Broilers.

Many questions have been posted regarding problems concerning these two items. Knowing how they work may help understand how to correct those problems.

Carbonic lighters, commonly called glow igniter's, are made of highly compressed carbon material. This material has a measured value of resistance to the flow of electricity. It's this measured value of resistance that operates the ignition components.

There are two styles of oven ignites. One design is flat while the other is corkscrew shaped. Both are housed in a semi protective metal perforated case. Each type uses a quick disconnect electrical wire assembly.

The glow igniter must perform two functions. One is to open the gas valve and the second is to provide a positive source of ignition to ignite the burner gas.

When the thermostat contact points close, electric current is allowed to flow to the glow igniter. Once the igniter is fully energized it will glow an intense bright yellow orange in color. In order to provide positive ignition, the glow igniter must obtain a temperature of approximately 1200-3000 degrees.

When the igniter reaches that temperature it will be using all but 5 volts of the house current suppled to it. The remainder of the supplied current is allowed to pass through to the gas valve. That current then activates the gas valve and allows the gas to flow to the oven burner.

Should either of these parts (igniter or gas valve) functions fail to perform, the oven will not operate. In the event you need to have either of these items checked, your local retail appliance parts store can test them for you. Often times it is best to replace both the glow igniter and the gas valve when either one fails to operate properly.

Points to remember about glow igniter's:

If the igniter doesn't glow:
Check the control panel settings FIRST.
Check for electric power at the clock, buzzer, or the wall plug.
If power is present, unplug the stove and check the fuse next.
The fuse may look fine but continuity through it must be verified. The fuse is a special type used only in glow igniter ignition ovens.

Glow Igniter Removing & Installing Tips:

Turn off the electric or unplug the appliance before replacing.
Handle the coil gently, they break easily and are non refundable.
Reinstall the new one EXACTLY as you found the original.

Gas Valve Operation:

When the glow igniter allows the remaining 5 volts of the house current to flow to the valve, the gas will open and gas will flow to the burner.

With time, usage and age, the glow igniter becomes weak, <it will appear to be mostly orange in color> it will not allow current to flow to the gas valve. When the coil is working correctly <it will appear an intense, bright yellow orange color> and the gas valve fails to open, the valve will need to be replaced.

Gas Valve Removal Tips:

Before removing an oven gas valve, turn off the GAS.
Unplug the appliance.
Remove the oven burner assembly off the gas valves orifice.
Remove the two electrical wires found on the valve.
Loosen the gas valve tubing nut before removing the gas valves anchoring device. <Use a backup wrench to hold the valve in place while turning the gas tubing nut.>

Gas Valve Reinstalling Tips:

Apply a light OIL on the threads of the inlet gas line tubing nut.
HAND start the threads before tightening with a wrench.
Secure the gas valve, then finish snuggly tightening the inlet nut.
Turn the gas supply back on. Check for leaks by SOAP testing the tubing nut.

Disclaimer:
This posting is for general component knowledge and understanding. It is not meant to be all inclusive nor an instructional guide for diagnosing, testing, removing or installing these or any gas components.

General Words Of Caution:
Appliances using either natural or propane gas, serviced, fixed or repaired incorrectly, can become a fire, explosion or carbon monoxide hazard.

Therefore, if your not sure you can safely and correctly make repairs to a gas appliance, consider leaving the repairs to a licensed and qualified appliance service technician.

Cautionary Note:
Before attempting any repairs, be sure to unplug the appliance from the wall receptacle power source first.

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Last edited by Sharp Advice; 08-24-06 at 06:54 AM.
 
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11-30-05, 09:00 AM   #6 (permalink)  
Replacing A Glow Ignitor

If an (HSI) hot surface igniter is more than 2 years old or so, it has to be replaced with a new one if it fails to glow or does not glow hot enough. This part does not last all that long of a time period. Some last several years while others do not last more than 2 years or so.

Nor are are glow igniter's too expensive nor difficult to replace. And doing so is or should be a first attempt correctional method for the do it yourself person. Below is basic diy instructions how to replace an igniter. (HSI)

Replacing the igniter is most likely to resolve most problems when an oven fails to heat or a broiler fails to operate. Meaning the burner does not come on or remain on long enough for an oven to reach set temperature, etc

Be sure all the control panel selections are set correctly before replacing any part(s). If the igniter is glowing but does not get glow hot enough to provide positive ignition to ignite the gas, the burner will not turn on.

***A hot glow igniter, working correctly, will glow an intense bright yellow orange in color. Too much orange, any reddish color or a dull orange means the glow igniter is weak. Replacing it often solves the problem.

If the igniter in question is the hot surface glowing igniter for one of two ovens, or an oven and or broiler switch them as a test. Removing the defective igniter should not pose any difficulties. Usually one or two screws attach's it to the burner. Switch the good igniter into the oven or broiler that does not work. If the oven or broiler now works, the removed igniter is weak and/or defective.

Remove the defective igniter, write down the model and serial numbers of that appliance and visit the local appliance parts store in your area. Purchase the replacement igniter and handle it very carefully. Ignites break very easily.

Install the new igniter exactly as you found the existing igniter. Be advise that some new replacement ignites do not come with quick disconnect ends. In this case, it's okay to cut off the quick disconnect from the old igniter and attach it to the new igniter.

Simply clip off the wires several inches above the disconnect on the old igniter, attach to the wires of the new igniter and wire nut the two ends together. Repeat the process to attach the other wire and wire nut that wire together. There is no positive nor negative polarity to be concerned with.

Position the new hot surface igniter exactly as you find the existing one attached. Double check all electrical connections before turning the power back on or plugging in the appliance.

If it is required or necessary to remove the burner, be sure the burner gets installed exactly as you find it prior to removal. The end of the burner tube with the air shutter adjustment must be installed back onto the gas valves bronze or brass orifice. Front attached to oven frame usually with a cotter pin.

Glowing hot surface ignites are fragile & break easily as noted above. Handle and install the new igniter very carefully. DO NOT touch the element with fingers or allow the surface to come into contact with any water and/or chemical, etc.

***Glowing hot surface ignites are non refundable electric components.

CAUTIONARY NOTE:
Be sure the electrical power to the appliance is turned off, before attempting any repairs. Appliance parts dealers are an excellent source for original replacement parts. Dealers are listed in the phone book under appliances.

TIP:
NEVER allow oven cleaning chemicals to come into contact with the HSI. Cover the HSI with a DRY cloth before using any spray oven cleaner or any such cleaners. An HSI that is sprayed or comes into contact with any chemicals or liquids burns out very quickly.

Read some or all of the already posted questions pertaining to ovens in this forum topic. Doing so will provide you with additional information on how to access the igniter, remove the old one and install the replacement.

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Last edited by Sharp Advice; 08-24-06 at 06:58 AM.
 
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12-26-05, 06:03 PM   #7 (permalink)  
Natural Gas Appliance Basic Installations Instructions

Below is a composite of basic appliances installation proccesses, steps, method and tips. Applies to almost all natural gas appliance installations.

If there isn't already a gas shut off valve installed on the natural gas supply pipe at the location where the stove and/or built in oven is to be installed, you will need to purchase a shut off valve. Usually one is present where another appliance was already installed but not always. Circumstances vary.

If there is an older style shut of valve already installed on the supply pipe, most likely you will need to replace it with a new one. The new one will match with the new connector. New connectors and old style shut off valves do not match.

If there isn't a shut off valve on the supply pipe, turn off the main gas and install a valve. The size for most free standing cooking stoves with ovens is 7/8ths. The flex connector must match the shut off valve. Which is usually but not always, 1" (one inch) pipe thread size on the female end. May be 3/4 inch in some cases. Buy the correct size to fit the existing needs.

All the required parts are available at the local hardware stores. This forum contains several questions on this subject of appliance connecting. Reading them will provide you with most, if not all, the additional information required.

Reminder. Gas has to be "OFF" to the supply line, if there isn't presently a gas shut off valve installed. Or the existing shut off valve has to be replaced.

In most cases, the existing shut off valve may not be the newer designed type. Which means the existing shut off (core valve) will have to be removed and a new design (ball valve) type installed.

The older shut off valves will not allow the newer type of flex connectors to screw onto them. Male thread ends different and the outside diameter is different sizes. So the existing shut off valve will than need to be removed first and the new style installed.

Which is when the main supply gas has to be turned off first. Once main gas supply is turned off, any existing gas in the line will not be of any major concern. Providing the main shut off valve at the meter totally shut off the gas. Some of the older types are known to allow a small amount to pass through.

Remove old style valve on supply pipe and install new type shut off valve. Use pipe thread compound on the threads or any type of oil. Avoid pipe tap unless you know how to use it properly. If you use pipe tape, once around the male threads on the supply pipe is enough. To much pipe tape creates problems.

The basic rule of thumb is to ONLY apply pipe tape to pipe joints and threads. Applying pipe thread compound {Dope} may also be used.

However, DO NOT apply pipe tape to the connector threads. Connector threads are those inside the female cap ends of the flex connector and or those on the adaptors. Doing so usually creates more problems of gas leaks that it was intended to solve. Especailly when too much is used and or the tape is rapped on the pipe threads in the wrong direction.

Flex connector threads either should be installed dry or apply a light oil to the threads only. Wiggle the connector, as you hand thread it onto the adaptor or shut-off valve, then only snug it up with a wrench.

Once that is completed, finger thread female nut of the flex connect onto the male end of the shut off valve. Finger threading is done to help prevent cross threading the threads.

Once cap nut firmly threaded onto male end of shut off valve, tighten cap nut with wrench to firmly secure it. Do not overtighten. Thread stripping or damage can occur.

New appliances will have an inlet gas pipe. Thread adapter that comes with flex connector onto pipe. Lube with thread compound, oil or one rap of pipe thread. Use same procedure as above and tighten firmly but do not overtighten. Just snug it up.

Once all the above is completed, turn gas on where ever you had to turn it off at. Turn on shut off valve to machine. Soap test for leaks. Use leak detection soap, if possible and available. Look for tiny bubbles at all connections made. No bubbles no leaks. Allow suffcient time for any bubbles to form. Be sure to soap well and all parts connected, and around all sides!

ADDITIONAL VIP INFORMATION:
Connector threads must fit together correctly. They connector nut on both ends of the connector should be hand threaded first, before using any wrenches. Use only oil to seal the threads. Do not use pipe tape or any other compounds on the threads of connectors, etc.

Leaks at most connections can be easily corrected. If not, the threads could be damaged or the parts are not compatible. Any doubts as to the condition of the parts used to connect the appliance should be replaced with new parts.

Best leak detection method is to use "Leak Detection Soap." Mix per instructions. Not having that, a soapy water solution made from commonly used dish soap will do fine. A slightly thick mixture to insure the soapy water remains on the parts and will still allow bubbles to form. A small cupful will do fine for the purpose.

Do not turn off the gas. Apply the soapy water solution using a sponge or common paint brush. Cover every connection location part and point. Especially connection locations you made and some locations which may have been unintentionally disrupted, etc. Then wait and watch.

Wherever a leak happens to be, regardless of how tiny, bubbles will form. Note every leak spots. Allow several minutes, if needed, for additional bubbles to appear.

Tiny leaks create tiny bubbles which may take time to develop. A second application may be required to locate some very tiny leaks.

Turn off the gas, at the gas valve on the supply pipe and make the needed repairs. Then retest the results. Repeat this process until all leaks are located and corrected.

Cautionary Reminder Note:
Before attempting any repairs, be sure to unplug the appliance from the wall receptacle power source first.

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Last edited by Sharp Advice; 08-24-06 at 07:01 AM.
 
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01-01-06, 06:57 AM   #8 (permalink)  
Kitchen Exhaust Vent Hoods

The fact is gas cooktops do not need an overhead exhaust venting system. Nor does an oven or stove with oven and broiler. Fumes are not the reason a hood is installed. The reason is the classification of the appliance.

Gas cooktop burners and appliances mentioned above are classified as non automatic and non remotely operated appliances.

Clarification and Classification:
Non automatic and Non remotely operated appliances.

Meaning any gas burning appliance that is Thermostically operated with the appliance located in another area, not visable, out of direct sight and one that turns on and off automatically. One has to be there physically present to turn the appliance on manually.

Even initially turning on any such an appliance as noted above (an appliance with or without a thermostat) is classified as non remotely operated and non automatically operated appliance.

A cooktop, stove with oven and/or built in oven and including a gas dryer are all classified as Non automatic and Non remotely operated appliances.

Since all the above are appliances where the operator has to be present for the appliance to operate and manually turn it on, the assumption is the operator will see, hear and be aware of any problems and/or conditions that are not normal operations or where any unsafe conditions may exist, etc.

The arguement or assumption is the burning of a fossil fuel produces products of combustion which are unfit and/or unsafe to breath is not true and there are no facts to prove otherwise. Providing the burners work well, the fuel burns cleanly and normally, the only byproducts of combustion is carbon dioxides and water vapors.

Only additional products of combustion is tract elements of sulfurs, carbon monoxides etc. in quantities much to small or low in volume to be of any health and/or risk hazards to anyone. Period.

So the arguements and/or assumptions an exhaust is required for any of the above mentioned reasons or any like and/or similar are not valid and/or do not apply. Best of my knowledge after all my years in the gas industry, no one has every died as a result of using a gas cooktop, for the purposes of cooking and/or when used as intended.

The exhaust hood is primarily there to provide direct overhead lighting, remove heat, cooking odors, moistures and for appearances. Some locals do require an exhaust hood but they are not needed and are not automactically operated.

Therefore, an exhaust hood not being an automatically operated unit, one can choose to turn it on or leave it off. If the hood was required because of any potential hazard due to burner exhausts fumes, the exhaust fan would turn on automatically, whenever a burner is turned on. This is not the case in non commerical establishment applications.

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Last edited by Sharp Advice; 08-24-06 at 07:02 AM.
 
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01-12-06, 08:34 PM   #9 (permalink)  
Oven Causing Carbon Monoxide?

Hello all, A couple of weeks ago my wife cleaned our propane gas oven with the self cleaning mode. Since then, every time the oven is used it has a strong odor, like something is burning, and it sets off the carbon monoxide detector.
Any ideas what that might be from? Maybe something is down below by the burners and needs to be cleaned out? If carbon monoxide is indeed being generated in large quantities what would need to be replaced?
Can't afford a new range, sure would like to just fix this one.

 
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01-13-06, 05:43 AM   #10 (permalink)  
Hello Kevin and Welcome to the Do It Yourself Web Site and my Gas Appliances topic.

I highly doubt cleaning (generically speaking) an oven will and/or could upset the flame characteristics enough to produce carbon monoxides.

Providing during the cleaning nothing was changed with the burner, it was not removed and replaced incorrectly. The inside plates and/or panels where reinstalled correctly, etc.

No aluminum foil is used to cover any interior part of the oven, including the racks. The vent opening inside the ovens baking compartment is not blocked and or restricted nor is the external vent or grill area. And the burner flames are all blue in color.

Chances are the remaining oven cleaners residue is burning off producing the odor and some invisable smoke particles which will set off a smoke alarm and/or a carbon monoxide detector. I have encounter this same type of incidents (oven cleaning setting off CO detectors) many many times.

Burning dust from heaters, and burning toast also can set them off. False alarms. Happens here too on rare occassions.

Condition will not or should not continue once oven burns off the remaining residue of the cleaner. Providing all is correct in the oven as noted above. Inspect the interior and clean out any remain food particles, etc.

Use the reply button to add additional information or questions. Using the reply button keeps or moves the topic back up to the top of the list automatically.

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Last edited by Sharp Advice; 08-24-06 at 07:03 AM.
 
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01-13-06, 11:39 AM   #11 (permalink)  
Thanks for the reply Sharp.

Question regarding the use of aluminum foil. My wife did put a layer on the bottom, in the past she's just used an old cookie sheet, but she wanted more coverage. Is that burning and causing the problem?

 
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01-14-06, 05:06 AM   #12 (permalink)  
Hello: Kevin.

The foil is not burning. But chances are it is covering the holes and slots around the ends and edges of that bottom plate. Doing so restricts and/or blocks air flow needed to allow for complete combustion.

Therefore, with the foil usage and the vent holes/slots in the lower plate, the flames are suffocating do to a lack of oxygen. Air enters the bottom of the oven, supplies air to the burner and raises up wards with the heat. The foil prevents or restricts that natural flow. The gas than does not burn completely and/or fully. That's when Carbon Monoxide is produced, regardless of flame color.

DO NOT use foil. DO NOT use flame color as an indicator to determine complete combustion is taking place. Opening either door allows air into the oven. Which distorts the flames back into appearing as if the normal combustion is taking place, when it really is not. Using visual flame appearance and/or characteristics under different circumstances is best left to the professionals.

Remove ALL foil from anywhere it is in the oven and/or entire appliance. Allow the appliance to operate in the same condition it was designed to operate in by the manufacturer and prior to the present condition. Problem should than not result.

Problem was not present before the cleaning and/or usage of foil, thus it was caused by a change of some type after the cleaning. Usually foil is used and/or parts not reassembled correctly.

Logic often resolves more problems than it appears to.


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Last edited by Sharp Advice; 08-24-06 at 07:05 AM.
 
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01-15-06, 04:11 PM   #13 (permalink)  
I removed the foil and low and behold everything is back to normal. Thanks for the help. Saved me the cost of an oven which is what my wife wanted!

 
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01-16-06, 05:23 AM   #14 (permalink)  
Hello: Kevin

Glad I was able to provide you with the solution that resolved the condition. Happens often. Foil is used in an attempt to keep an ovens surfaces clean. Problem arises when that foil restricts normal air flow.

Foil also restricts the heats rising and changes internal baking compartments temperatures and air flow characteristics, even if the foil does not block and/or restrict air flow. Foil is both an insulator and heat reflector. Reflects heat as an insulator, to some amount. Thus, internal oven temperature will be effected.

Usually causing food items to be under baked on the bottom and over baked on the top of the item. Or to some uneven amount of heat based upon how much foil is used and where it is placed, etc. Always best NOT to use any foil anywhere inside any oven, gas or electric.

Thanks for posting back the results. And thanks for asking the question. Helps everyone else whom is reading this thread to learn more too.

I will use this thread by merging it into the sticky note.

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Last edited by Sharp Advice; 08-24-06 at 07:06 AM.
 
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07-12-06, 05:17 PM   #15 (permalink)  
Conversion to propane 1940's Magic Chef range

I'd like to find out what would be required to convert a 1940's Magic Chef kitchen range from natural gas to propane operation. Stove has four burners, separate oven and broiler, total of 4 always on pilot lights. Are the necessary parts available? thanks

 
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07-13-06, 07:33 PM   #16 (permalink)  
Hello akphoneguy and Welcome to the Do It Yourself Web Site and my Gas Appliances topic.

Basic fuel conversion help is available below in the link.

Help Link: Copy and Re Paste Address Below Into Browsers Address Bar.
Range-Stove-Oven-Broiler Basic Help Information & Manufacturers Web Sites and Fuel Conversion Here: http://forum.doityourself.com/showthread.php?t=159808

Parts will be available at any local appliances parts stores. The gas regulator is not likely to be that can be converted, based upon the year date of manufacture for the appliance. Likely will have to replace it.

Unless the cap on the tower of the reg is marked "N" or "NAT" presently. Than it can be turned over to convert to propane. Likely the orifices can be adjusted. Screwed in wards to convert to propane or they all will have to be replaced.

Ask at the parts store. No hard and fast rule to conversions. All based upon what is presently on the stove or used presently. Some parts must be replaced, others not so.

Full detailed instructions here:
NATURAL GAS TO PROPANE GAS:

If the stove is currently set up to burn natural gas and currently connected to propane, the burners would burn very large, appear or actually burn yellow, because the burner orifices holes are too large. Natural gas orifices have holes sized for natural gas, which are too large for propane fuel.

To convert the stove to propane, the orifices must be either replaced or turned in wards to reduce the hole size. In some cases the orifices can be screwed opened or closed to adjust the burners flame size but not always. Some orifices are non adjustable. They turn but do nothing. In those cases, orifice replacements are needed.

On most older stoves the orifices are adjustable while on some they still are not adjustable. The orifices are the brass or bronze hex nuts onto which the burner tubes are set. There is also adjustable air shutters on each burner tube at all the burners.

To make the conversion where orifice replacement is required, the first thing you have to know is what the burners are rated at. Inside or on the stove somewhere is a plate containing all the required information. Once you have this information, write down the stoves information and visit the local retail appliance parts store for replacement parts. The appliance stores counter service person will be able to determine orifice sizes required.

Another item that will need attention, is the gas regulator. This part is located where the incoming fuel line is connected to the appliance. If the existing regulator isn't convertible between natural gas and propane, the part will also need to be replaced. Failure to convert or replace the regulator for the type of gas used will create burner operational problem, etc.

Another item the has to be set correctly is the ovens thermostat. Most of these have a set screw on the body of the thermostat near the stem behind the temp knob. The screw will be labled...N or Nat for natural gas. P or LP for propane. Turn the set screw to the type of fuel used.

Suggestions:
Read the manufacturers online web site for product information, problem possibilities, causes and solving methods, part locations, disassembly, reassembly methods, repair procedures and instructions, fuel type conversions, pictorials and schematics, which may be available online.

An excellent source for original replacement parts is your local retail appliance parts store. Appliance parts dealers carry replacement parts for all appliances. Parts dealers are listed in the phone book under appliances.

Read the prior postings on this fuel conversion topic, within this forum and the replies offered within them. You'll find instructions to make the conversion already in them.

PROPANE TO NATURAL GAS:

What has to be done is a conversion to propane from natural gas. Which means all the existing burner orifices have to be replaced with propane orifices. Or screwed in wards to reduce the burners flame size. Propane gas orifices have holes sized for propane fuel, which is too small for natural gas fuel. The appliance regulator has to be converted also.

Later model stoves have regulators that are convertible. It's simply a matter of turning over the tower cap on the regulator. Some appliance regulators have levers or set screws that have to be turned from one position to another. Look for the letter markings, "LP" or "Nat." Older stoves that do not have convertible regulators, the entire regulator must be replaced.

Failure to convert the appliance from natural gas to propane, while using propane, will result in excessively large burner flames, which will cause soot and produce carbon monoxides, etc. Best bet is to convert the appliance before connecting it to the new fuel source.

Read the prior postings on this fuel conversion topic, within this forum, for other postings and the replies offered. You'll find instructions to make the conversion already posted.

NATURAL GAS TO PROPANE:

What has to be done is a conversion from natural gas to propane gas. Which means all the existing burner orifices have to be replaced with propane gas orifices and the appliance regulator has to be converted also. The reverse of above.

Later model stoves have regulators that are convertible. It's simply a matter of turning over the tower cap on the regulator. Some appliance regulators have levers or set screws that have to be turned from one position to another. Look for the letter markings, "LP" or "Nat" on the regulator body.

Older stoves that do not have convertible regulators, the entire regulator must be replaced. Failure to convert the appliance from natural gas to propane, while using propane, will result in excessively large burner flames, which will cause soot and produce carbon monoxides, etc. Best bet is to convert the appliance before connecting it to the new fuel source.

Oven and broiler burner adjustment:
Flames should be not more than one inch from the outer edges of the flame spreader. The flame spreader is the flat plate the sets on top of the burner tube. Adjust the orifice in wards or out wards until the flame tips are about 1 and 1/2 inches to 2 inches in wards from the outer edges of flame spreader is ideal.

If the flames appear yellow or have yellowed tips, adjust the air shutter on the burner just above the orifice to allow slightly more air to enter. But not so much to cause flames to lift off of the burner and blow out wards with force.

An excellent source for original replacement parts is your local retail appliance parts store. Parts dealers are listed in the phone book under the heading of appliances.

Read the prior postings on this fuel conversion topic, within this forum, for other postings and the replies offered. You'll find instructions to make the conversion already posted.

OVEN THERMOSTAT CONVERSIONS:

There should be 2 markings on the valve body indicating each of the fuel positions. LP for propane and NAT for natural. There may also be a tiny lever or set screw on the thermostat control valve. This valve will be behind the thermostats temperature knob.

To gain access to it, remove the thermostats temperature knob by pulling it forward. Then look behind the knob for either of the two conversion markings. Set the slotted set screw to the correct fuel type.

If screwing down the oven/broiler orifice did not control the size of the burner flames, that orifice is not likely to be an adjustable one. Here is a means to determine if that orifice is or is not adjustable. The burner needs to be removed from the gas control valve. The burners tube ending sits on the gas valve.

The other end of the burner is secured to the front of the oven. Rests on a ledge or lip at the base of the access door. There will be a cotton pin OR a screw securing it. Whichever it is, remove it. Than remove the burner by lifting it up and off the gas valve at the back of the oven/broiler area. Once removed, that brass or bronze hex nut thimble looking part is the orifice.

Unscrew it off the gas valve and remove it. Stick into the gas valve should be a pointed raised sphere like part. If one is there, the orifice is adjustable. If none is there, the orifice is not adjustable. In this instance, the orifice needs to be replaced with an LP orifice. Note the BTU rating for that specific burner on the rate plate.

At any local appliance parts store, a replacement orifice can be obtained for that BTU rating in the size for propane fuel. Appliance parts dealers are listed in the phone book.

Once obtained, install that "LP" orifice as the other one was. Reinstall burner exactly as it was found prior to removal. Turn new orifice opened about 6 full turns from the lightly seated and closed position.

Relight pilot. Test burner flame size. Flames should not exceed flame spreader plate which is on top of burner attached with a wing nut. Flames should be not more than one inch from the outer edges of the flame spreader. In wards 1 and 1/2 inches to 2 inches in wards from the outer edges of flame spreader is ideal.

If the flames appear yellow or have yellowed tips, adjust the air shutter on the burner just above the orifice to allow slightly more air to enter. But not so much to cause flames to lift off of the burner and blow out wards with force. Once correct orifice opening is set and the air shutter is set....your set...job done...

Be sure the electrical power to the appliance is turned off, before attempting any repairs. Always check for gas leaks when reconnecting any gas part.

Kindly use the reply button to post all replies, add additional information or ask additional questions when replies are posted. Using this method moves and/or keeps the topic back up to the top of the list of questions automatically and keeps all content on the same subject within one thread.

Retail appliance parts dealers can also help determine what the most likely possible problem may be. They will need the make, model and serial numbers. Appliance parts dealers are an excellent source for original replacement parts and problem resolving matters. Dealers are listed in the phone book under appliances.

Be sure the electrical power to the appliance is turned off, before attempting any repairs or services. Always check for gas leaks whenever moving the appliance and/or a service or repair includes any connection of a gas part.

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Regards and Good Luck.
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Last edited by Sharp Advice; 10-30-07 at 07:21 AM. Reason: Updating. 10-30-2007
 
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08-06-06, 10:27 PM   #17 (permalink)  
gas smell when using stove/oven

Hi-

I live in a condo, and the last few days, two of my neighbors and I have noticed a gas smell while using our gas stoves and ovens. There does not seem to be any smell when the stove/oven is not being used.

If it was just me, I would suspect some kind of a leak in or around my range. However, the fact that my neighbors have also noticed this problem with their ranges starting from about the same day has me stumped. (There is some painting going on in the back stairway, but I haven't noticed the same smell you can sometimes get with poly, etc. when the ventilation isn't so great- it smells like a gas leak.)

We've agreed to not use our ranges until the gas company visits. Another opinion regarding the possible cause of this smell would be very welcome in the meantime.

Thank you in advance!

Billy

 
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08-08-06, 05:21 PM   #18 (permalink)  
Restricted Burner Ports Or Petrol Chemical Smell

Hello Billy and Welcome to my Gas Appliances topic.

Not likely both you and another person mentioned would both have restricted burner ports on the oven/broiler burner. Possible both of you could have the same condition on separate appliances at the same time but not likely.

Condition sounds like the product being used by whomever and whatever they are doing is the more likely culprit. More so too if the condition was noticed recently, while the worker(s) are doing whatever they are doing, (painting, staining, etc.) then if the condition was prior.

Since the odor is only present when the burner is on, likely to be a petroleum based products vapors burning. However, take a look at the burner flames.

Should be all blue. No yellow. Flames all around the entire surface of the burner. If flames not present at every port, hole or slot, may be the cause. Restricted burner. Clean as needed or indicated in the help sticky note. Other conditions may apply.

Additional Help Here:
Range-Stove-Oven-Broiler Basic Help Information, Fault Codes & Mfg's Web Site Links http://forum.doityourself.com/showthread.php?t=159808

***If and or when you attempt any repairs, "Be sure the electrical power to the appliance is turned off, before attempting any repairs. Always check for gas leaks whenever the appliance is moved and/or a repair includes any connection of a gas part."

You may already know this but worth repeating for others reading this posted question and any replies within it. Kindly use the reply button to post all replies, add additional information or ask additional questions when replies are posted. Using this method moves and/or keeps the topic back up to the top of the list of questions automatically and keeps all content on the same subject within one thread.

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Last edited by Sharp Advice; 10-30-07 at 07:22 AM. Reason: Updating. 10-30-2007
 
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08-11-06, 06:01 PM   #19 (permalink)  
Hi Sharp-

thanks for the great info. No one believed me about the paint causing the strange smell until the gas company came out and inspected the two other units and the meters in the basement. So I was hoping for the backup you provided.

The paint that was being applied was indeed oil based. And yes, it was causing the weird smell when using our gas appliances, which do not have a pilot light but electronic ignition.

Ventilating helps a lot, and the problem pretty much has since gone away now that the paint is dry.

Thank you again for the helpful response!

Best,

Billy

 
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08-11-06, 08:35 PM   #20 (permalink)  
Forum Topic Posts Added

FYI:

Some of the very best & most informative forum posted questions containing replies, are also included within this sticky note.

From time to time, on a selective basis, some already posted and replied to questions contained within the forum topic will be added into this helpful sticky note.

In doing so, more helpful information can be gathered and contained within one thread. Thereby, members can more easily and more quickly obtain the information needed to determine the appliances problem and resolve either before posting a question or during any waiting time period for a personal reply.

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Last edited by Sharp Advice; 08-24-06 at 07:10 AM.
 
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10-18-06, 06:40 AM   #21 (permalink)  
Gas Regulators (Appliance & Supply Pressure)

Natural Gas and Propane Gas Regulators.

Natural Gas and Propane Gas Regulators are not the same. An appliance regulator controls the supply pressure into the gas appliance.

A supply gas regulator controls the main feed line supply gas pressure. Each type is not to be confused. Each type of regulators has it's own intended purpose. Neither can be interchanged.

Each individual appliance has it's own separate regulator. Not to be confused with a supply pressure regulator. An appliance regulator further reduces supply gas pressure down to appliance pressures.

If there is already existing gas appliances with in a house, no main gas line pressure regulator is required. Main supply gas line already has a regulator from the supply source.

If the new appliance is the ONLY gas appliance (Natural Gas or Propane Gas) then yes, main supply gas regulator is required.

Which is very likely already existing, if any other gas appliances already exists. Primary reason why plumbers and/or gas piping installers do not install any regulator on to gas lines added or extended to where an appliance is to be installed.

Gas (Natural or Propane) appliances most often come with an appliance regulator but may not be pre-installed. One should be in the shipping/package box opened.

Look at instruction/installation guide manual that came with any newly purchased gas appliance. In the installation guide there will be a picture of what an appliance regulator looks like and instructions pertaining to installation of the part.

Be sure the "ARROW" faces the intake manifold pipe on the appliances. Arrow must face to wards the appliance. All appliance regulators have an arrow. Look for it!

NEVER over tighten any appliance regulator! Doing so could and very likely will crack the housing where the threads are.

*Always* apply a >non hardening< type of thread compound to the threads of the pipe onto which the appliance regulator is to be installed, prior to installing the regulator.

Pipe tape is NOT suggested nor recommended! Excessive amount of such applies too much force on the threaded area of the regulator. Which may cause improper forces on the regulator causing leaks and or cracks!

***Use cautions when installing these types of gas parts.***

Cracks to the housings of appliance regulators are all to common. Always caused by improper installations (cross threading) and or excessive forced used during tightening.

Secure the regulator using an adjustable wrench applied ONLY to the casing and not to any other location on the part.

***Be sure the electrical power to the appliance is turned off, before attempting any installations and/or repairs.***

>>>Always check for gas leaks whenever any gas appliance is installed, moved and/or any repair includes any connection of a gas part.<<<

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10-18-06, 06:47 AM   #22 (permalink)  
Match Lit Ovens

These types of ovens do not have any constant burning pilot light. These types of older ovens are commonly referred to as "Match Lit" ovens.

There is no constant burning pilot light.

The flame that appears when the ovens is turned on and lit with a match, also lights a pilot type flame. That flame is there to ensure the burned remains lit should the burned flame ever gets extinguished.

The thermostats used with these types of older ovens have a small aluminum tube that is installed into the back of the thermostat. The other end attach's to the burner.

The thermostat then supplies gas to both the burner and the relighting flame from that smaller tube. The only purpose for that smaller flame is to relight the burner, should the burner flame become extinguished.

The thermostat used with match lit ovens does not allow the burner to cycle fully off and on to maintain the ovens set temperature. The thermostat only adjusts the gas volume amount to the burner, which in turn regulates the heat temperature inside the oven.

As a safety device, the flame from the smaller aluminum tube is there strictly to ensure the burner flame remain established should the main burner flame becomes extinguished when the burners flame is at it's lowest flame size.

In order to continue having the smaller tube, when a replacement OEM part is not available, an improvised method must be used. To secure the tube to the burner, an improvised method needs to be used.

The replacement tubing only needs to be installed parallel to the burner with the flame close to the burner. Must be located where it will ensure relighting the burner.

Cautionary Reminder Note:
Before attempting any repairs, be sure to unplug the appliance from the wall receptacle power source first. Test for leaks on all connections using leak detection soap.

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09-29-08, 07:48 PM   #23 (permalink)  
Just A Note Of Thanks To Sharp Advice

Hello,
I just wanted to let you all know- If you have a problem with a gas appliance SHARP ADVISE is absolutely the greatest!!
A few weeks ago I had major issues with a gas range Sharp walked me threw step by step until we not only found the problem but fixed it!! And believe me it was no short walk!

Anyway you are fabulous a deserve kudos!!
Thanks Teresa

 
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01-20-10, 02:49 PM   #24 (permalink)  
Lighting A Pilot Light on Kitchen Gas Range With A Built-in Heater

Hi All,

I'm trying to figure out how to get the heater portion of this gas range working It is a Kenmore, probably from the 1950's. Model number 103.657900. The range works quite well. The oven is functional, though it generally isn't ever used.

I can't quite figure out where the pilot light is on the heater portion. As you can see from the picture, there is a three way valve, with 'On', 'Off', and 'Pilot' settings. In the 'Pilot' position, the knob is meant to be depressed in order to light the pilot light.

I get no gas flow in the 'On' position. I'm guessing that either something is broken, or there is a safety valve cutting the gas since the pilot is out. Would the latter seem reasonable for a 1950's stove?

If so, can anyone tell me where the pilot light would be? Any suggestions on troubleshooting if it isn't just a matter of lighting the pilot?

Also, I tried finding info online, but all I could find is a poor quality parts diagram from sears, which didn't help.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks,

-Mark





Last edited by Sharp Advice; 02-11-10 at 06:48 AM. Reason: Retitled
 
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01-21-10, 05:34 AM   #25 (permalink)  
Hello Mark. Welcome to Gas Appliances topic and our Do-It-Yourself Web Site.

First, locate the pilot assembly. Which is at the end of the smaller diameter aluminum tube leading out of the gas control valve. Assembly will be close to the burner under the burner cover.

Once you see the assembly, rotate the control knob located on the RIGHT side of the gas valve to the lowest temp setting number.

Then rotate the knob on the right side to the "PILOT" position. Light a match or use some thing like a match lighter hand held lighter and place the flame near the pilot assembly.

Once you accomplish that, depress the PILOT control knob into the fully depressed position. Pilot flame should appear. Once flame appears remove match and continue to hold pilot knob depressed for about one minute or so.

After the minute or so of time, slowly release depressed pressure on pilot knob and allow it to come out. Pilot flame should then remain ON.

Next is to move face and hands away from the area. Using one hand only in the area of the burner and control knob, rotate knob to the "ON" position.

Next is to rotate knob on left side to set temperature to one of the numbers from number one to what ever number allows burner to fire up.

The RED indicators determine which setting and/or function either control knob is set to.

Use extreme CAUTION lighting pilot and also when burner is turned ON. Flash back of flames is always possible. Which can cause serious burns and injuries!

Oh Yeah. You will not get any gas flow to burner unless the pilot will remain lighted after letting pilot valve up and control is in the ON position.

Nor will burner light if pilot will not light and stay lighted. Reason is the safety device inside the control does not allow burner gas flow if pilot isn't on or if it will not remain on.

Great pictures too! Helps us a lot when seeing the controls and trying to explain the lighting steps to be taken.....

Use the reply button to add additional information or questions. Using the reply button keeps or moves the topic back up to the top of the list automatically and keeps all communications on this subject in this thread.


Regards and Good Luck.
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01-21-10, 07:14 PM   #26 (permalink)  
Sharp Advice,

Thanks so much for the reply. I'll take a look at it this weekend and try to light it following the steps you outlined.

I do have two follow up questions though. I've attached another picture w/ a blue and red arrow for reference.

The blue arrow points to a little access door that can swing down horizontally and cover the opening. Is it through here that I would light the pilot? Also, is it safe to assume that this door should be closed prior to turning on the burner?

The red arrow points to an opening which can be made smaller (or closed completely) by rotating a metal plate clockwise. Should this be open or closed? Right now, it is open as far as possible. I'm guessing this is where the air is drawn for combustion, but I don't know much about gas stoves, and just want to make sure.

Thanks!

-Mark


 
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01-22-10, 05:13 AM   #27 (permalink)  
Hello: Mark

The RED arrow is the secondary air opening shutter which is used to change or adjust the volume of air to fuel ratio.

In almost all cases it will be fully opened as it presently is. I do not recommend the shutter position be changed from it's present position.

The BLUE arrow is where the pilot flame is lighted. Once you establish a constant burning pilot flame, yes, close that pilot lighting access door.

The above should answer both your questions....

As a favor to all those whom are also reading this thread, can you include another picture pr two in your reply showing the location where the heat exists the stove?

Many of us do not live in a section of the country where such appliances are used. Therefore, we haven't go a clue what the heater portion/section of a cooking stove looks like.

However, the burner section photos included in this thread look no different than any other small room heater usually installed in a wall..... and often referred to as a wall furnace.....

 
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01-22-10, 12:34 PM   #28 (permalink)  
Thanks for your reply.

This stove is actually located in a cabin that belongs to a friend of mine. It is not the primary source of heat (there's a furnace w/ a forced hot water system), but will just be used to supplement the heating system on particularly chilly days, or to bring the cabin up to temperature more quickly on occasions when the thermostat was lowered due to absence. My friend got into the habit of just lighting the burners on the range, which I view as not the best idea.

These aren't terribly common these days - as I said, this is a good 50 - 60 years old. However, it is my understanding that you'd often see such heater/stoves in small apartments (like a studio apartment), and it'd be used as the primary source of heat. Needless to say, that wouldn't fly today. I'm in the NE, in case anyone is wondering.

I'll try and light it tomorrow. Hopefully all will go well. If not, I'm sure I'll have more questions to post.

Here's a pic per your request. (please excuse the mess - the stove needs a good cleaning)


 
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01-23-10, 06:37 AM   #29 (permalink)  
Hi: Mark

THANKS for posting the last photo. Helps us to visualize the heater built into the side of a cooking stove.....

All photos in this thread will remain in it, providing they remain on the web site where they are posted. If you delete them on the hosting site they will not appear in this thread. Nothing but a boxed red X will appear....

Would greatly appreciate it if you would leave them on your site for as long as possible so all other readers of this thread can also view the photos to see how cooking appliances with heaters built into them and the controls look.

These types of appliances have gone the way of the dinosaurs for several reasons. One reason is: Better whole house heating and the other is a lack of exhaust (flue) for the fumes. Several other reasons too.

Regards and Good Luck with the attempt to light the heater.

 
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01-24-10, 10:33 PM   #30 (permalink)  
Hi Sharp,

There actually is an exhaust flue. I don't have a picture at the moment (in fact, I just got back from my friend's cabin), but I can take a picture if you like the next time I'm up there.

So, I tried to light the pilot, following the steps you outlined. No success.

Does this mean the valve is bad? Any troubleshooting that I can do? I'm guessing on a stove this old, it will be very difficult to find reasonably priced replacement parts.

Thanks,

-Mark

Posted By: Sharp Advice Hi: Mark

THANKS for posting the last photo. Helps us to visualize the heater built into the side of a cooking stove.....

All photos in this thread will remain in it, providing they remain on the web site where they are posted. If you delete them on the hosting site they will not appear in this thread. Nothing but a boxed red X will appear....

Would greatly appreciate it if you would leave them on your site for as long as possible so all other readers of this thread can also view the photos to see how cooking appliances with heaters built into them and the controls look.

These types of appliances have gone the way of the dinosaurs for several reasons. One reason is: Better whole house heating and the other is a lack of exhaust (flue) for the fumes. Several other reasons too.

Regards and Good Luck with the attempt to light the heater.

 
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01-24-10, 11:03 PM   #31 (permalink)  
BTW, I was wondering if you could tell me that this little arrow-like selector does. You can see it best in the first pic, the second is more for reference. I tried lighting the pilot with it in both the on and off position, but with not luck.

Thanks!





Posted By: markn984 Hi Sharp,

There actually is an exhaust flue. I don't have a picture at the moment (in fact, I just got back from my friend's cabin), but I can take a picture if you like the next time I'm up there.

So, I tried to light the pilot, following the steps you outlined. No success.

Does this mean the valve is bad? Any troubleshooting that I can do? I'm guessing on a stove this old, it will be very difficult to find reasonably priced replacement parts.

Thanks,

-Mark

 
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01-25-10, 04:49 AM   #32 (permalink)  
Mark

If you got the pilot light to burn while holding the pilot knob depressed down, the flame should be all blue and impinging a safety element. If the pilot flame will remain lit after holding the pilot control knob down for at least 45 seconds to 60 seconds then releasing it, half the battle is won.

Once the pilot flame will remain lit and you rotate the pilot control knob to the on position, that knob on top of the gas control valve needs to be turned to the ON position. It controls gas flow to the main burner.

The control knob (marked warmer in red) with the numbers controls the room heat to temperature. That Honeywell control, with a control knob on top, differs slightly from the others used in wall heaters and/or floor heaters, etc.

The knob on top of the control may be there so the burner will not turn on even if the room temperature drops below the lowest set temp (#1) on the temp control knob.

If the pilot flame will not remain ON after lighting the pilot flame and holding depressed the pilot control knob, changes are the thermocouple (T-Couple) safety element is defective.

In this instance that part can be replaced separately. It is identical to the T-Couple used on gas water heaters and many other heating units. Can be obtained in any hardware store or BIG BOX store.

Defective T-Couple may be the cause for pilot flame not to remain on or the pilot flame is dirty with debris. In that case blowing out the debris may improve the pilot flames size and raise it's heat level enough to fully heat the T-Couple.

The T-Couples element will be in the pilot assembly next to the burner. From what I can see in the photos, the T-Couple looks to have an aluminum tube extending from it. Which indicates an original part.

New T-Couples are now made of copper or bronze or a similar type metal. You'll see them in the stores sold as replacement elements for water heaters.

Good Luck accessing the pilot assembly to remove and replace the T-Couple. Based upon viewing only the photos seen here, it can be a slightly difficult task. Also be carefully not to get scratched or cut on the hands nor arms during the process. That's all rusted metal that can be nasty and infection....


Regards and Good Luck.
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01-25-10, 12:23 PM   #33 (permalink)  
Hi Sharp,

Thanks for the reply.

The pilot won't burn at all. It's not a case of it becoming lit and going out. It seems that there is no gas flow to the pilot.

Any suggestions? What would cause this?

Thanks,

-Mark

Posted By: Sharp Advice Mark

If you got the pilot light to burn while holding the pilot knob depressed down, the flame should be all blue and impinging a safety element. If the pilot flame will remain lit after holding the pilot control knob down for at least 45 seconds to 60 seconds then releasing it, half the battle is won.

Once the pilot flame will remain lit and you rotate the pilot control knob to the on position, that knob on top of the gas control valve needs to be turned to the ON position. It controls gas flow to the main burner.

The control knob (marked warmer in red) with the numbers controls the room heat to temperature. That Honeywell control, with a control knob on top, differs slightly from the others used in wall heaters and/or floor heaters, etc.

The knob on top of the control may be there so the burner will not turn on even if the room temperature drops below the lowest set temp (#1) on the temp control knob.

If the pilot flame will not remain ON after lighting the pilot flame and holding depressed the pilot control knob, changes are the thermocouple (T-Couple) safety element is defective.

In this instance that part can be replaced separately. It is identical to the T-Couple used on gas water heaters and many other heating units. Can be obtained in any hardware store or BIG BOX store.

Defective T-Couple may be the cause for pilot flame not to remain on or the pilot flame is dirty with debris. In that case blowing out the debris may improve the pilot flames size and raise it's heat level enough to fully heat the T-Couple.

The T-Couples element will be in the pilot assembly next to the burner. From what I can see in the photos, the T-Couple looks to have an aluminum tube extending from it. Which indicates an original part.

New T-Couples are now made of copper or bronze or a similar type metal. You'll see them in the stores sold as replacement elements for water heaters.

Good Luck accessing the pilot assembly to remove and replace the T-Couple. Based upon viewing only the photos seen here, it can be a slightly difficult task. Also be carefully not to get scratched or cut on the hands nor arms during the process. That's all rusted metal that can be nasty and infection....

 
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01-26-10, 05:04 AM   #34 (permalink)  
Hi: Mark

We are making progress here. Slowly but surely. I now have a better understanding of the situation too. There is no pilot flame because there is no gas to pilot assembly.

If the above is correct but there is gas to the burners, we can then assume one of four possibilities exists.

#1
Air in the line(s) to the gas control valve to the heaters gas control valve and into the pilot assembly. The pilot gas will take a long time to arrive, meaning you will need to hold the pilot knob depressed for a longer time period for gas to arrive.

#2
The gas control valves main burner shut off knob on top of the control, the knob with the arrow on it, is either closed indicated by the off position arrow. Or it needs to be in the on position to allow gas to flow to and through the valve. Be sure position is set to on position and retry pilot lighting.

2A
If that arrow knob needs to be in the on position to allow gas to flow through control before reaching pilot assembly, try lighting pilot with it in the on position and allow lots of time for gas to arrive at pilot assembly.

HINT: Watch the flame on the match. If air is there in the lines the flame on the match will indicate such. Flickering will be seen if flame is located in the correct pilot lighting position of the assembly.

#3
If arrow has been on and there is gas to the appliance, burners work, then it is possible the pilot assembly is clogged with rust and or debris. Removal of pilot assembly will need to be done. Cleaning and clearing assembly and orifice is required.

3B
Pilot assembly removing & cleaning can be difficult due to the location of the assembly, age and condition of the parts and there tiny sizes. Orifice will be the tiny thimble like cup at the end of that tiny pilot gas supply tube. Hole in orifice extremely tiny.

Clean carefully, due not enlarge opening in orifice. When it's cleared light from a light bulb will be visible through hole. Which will not be a true hole but more like a rectangle. Clean and clear out air holes in assembly also and reassemble carefully.

#4
Gas control defective. Internal failed and will not allow gas to pass through it for pilot nor burner. In this case a replacement would be the only solution. Gas valves are non repairable. Possible an original not to be found but a heating parts supply store may have a control that will work as a replacement.

Hope the above helps you further....
Kindly attempt the above, determine the findings and attempt the needed repairs. Then reply back with those final results.

Beer 4U2


Regards and Good Luck.
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01-28-10, 05:29 PM   #35 (permalink)  
How Does An Igniter and Gas Valve Work Together

Basically, how does the igniter and the "safety gas valve" work together? The igniter glows red, but the burner never turns on . Is this the igniter, or the valve? What is it that tells the valve that the flame is "on" so it stays open? No thermocouple like old pilot ranges.

Thanks,


Last edited by Sharp Advice; 02-11-10 at 06:52 AM. Reason: Retitled
 
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01-29-10, 05:08 AM   #36 (permalink)  
Hello: 594tough

Excellent Question.....

A bit difficult to explain exactly how a carbonic igniter (HSI) works but I will try and attempt to here. All has to due with electrical current and resistance values.

An HSI is designed, sized and manufactured to absorb all of the household electric current available (supplied) to it. Until it reaches a set value of resistance to the supplied voltage.

We SEE the resistance as a glow of light. The visible light also produces heat. Because the HSI is a filament element just like or similar to a light bulbs filament or element. (Depending upon which terminology >element or filament< one cares to use to describe the element/filament that we see glowing.

Once the HSI glows it's brightest, visually seen as an intense bright yellow orange color, it is absorbing all of the current available to it EXCEPT the last 5 volts. Which it then directs to the gas control valve.

If one takes a very close look at the gas valve, one should see it stamped with the voltage of or about 5VAC. That voltage comes from the HSI when it cannot absorb any more current supplied to it.

Basically and generically speaking, the HSI is a resistance to electrically current just like a light bulbs filament. Produces both light and heat to a set value and like any electrical device, returns what current it cannot use back to the electrical power source.

In the case of an HSI, it passes that extra current to the gas valve first. Before any gets returned to the power source. What we see as light (color) produced by the HSI is resistance.

As with any such electrical part, an HSI deteriorates over time. That's when the resistance becomes so high the HSI cannot absorb the full amount of current supplied to it and have any left over to pass to the gas valve. A dull color of red or a lack of bright yellow.

At the point the HSI will remain lighted but not be hot enough to ignite gas nor be passing a current or enough current to the gas valve. Valve then never opens or in some cases never fully opens. Time to replace the HSI....

Depending upon usage and other factors, an HSI usually only lasts a few years (2-5 approx) before needing to be replaced. And YES. In an oven, unlike a dryer or furnace, etc, there is no safety backup, (redundancy control using dual solenoids) so the HSI remains glowing the entire time the burner is lit and until the set temperature is reached.

Hope this explains the operation of an HSI....


Regards and Good Luck.
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