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American Standard Freedom 80 - Cold Air - Getting Error Code 9 Flashes


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11-20-09, 10:18 PM   #1 (permalink)  
American Standard Freedom 80 - Cold Air - Getting Error Code 9 Flashes

Just purchased house a few weeks ago. Furnace was working initially, but now it's not. Blows cold air and has a red light that flashes 9 times. Researched and found that 9 Flashes is either "Check Ignition" or "Check Ignitor Circuit and Line "N" to 24VAC "Common" voltage (≤ 2 volts) [possible grounding problem]". Found a receipt in a book the previous owner left us and it indicates that the ignitor was replaced last November...however the company charged them $248 for the part. Found the part for $38 and ordered one. It came in and I replaced and I'm still having the same issue. Purchased a Multi Meter and tested the Ignitor(s) with the Ohm meter. Found something online that says a good one should get around 45 ohms...a bad one about 115. Both of these came back at 15...so either they are both bad, or both good. If the article is correct, I think they are OK. Not sure how to verify grounding, multimeter is new to me as is a Furnace Ignition board.

When I start the furnace, the inductor motor starts briefly then stops. Then the blower kicks in. The Hot Surface ignitor never heats up. Someone suggested checking the "air switch contacts". I test the contacts on the pressure switch after turning on the furnace, the ohm meter stayed at 1. I removed the pressure switch, sucked in on the tube and the ohm meter measured 0 and I could her the contacts connect.

I'm at a loss as how to procede from here. According to the warning message sheet (below), if there was an issue with that ventalation area I should be getting a different message. Not sure how to check the Ingition Circuit & Line "N" to the 24VAC. I was able to find the Line "N" lead on the ingition board and trace the circuit to the ignitor...not sure where to put this other end & if it is a grounding issue, not sure how to verify ground. I followed the gas pipes and there is ground off the pipe about 10 feet away and after the water heater, that goes into the fuse box. If anyone has any suggestions it would be greatly appreciated.

INTEGRATED FURNACE CONTROL ERROR FLASH CODES
Flashing Slow --- Normal - No call for Heat
Flashing Fast --- Normal - Call for Heat
Continuous ON --- Replace IFC
Continuous OFF --- Check Power
2 Flashes --- System Lockout (Retries or Recycles exceeded)
3 Flashes ---
Draft Pressure Error - Possible problems:
a) Venting problem
b) Pressure switch problem
c) Inducer problem
4 Flashes --- Open Temperature Limit Circuit
5 Flashes --- Flame sensed when no flame should be present
6 Flashes --- 115 volt AC power reversed, poor grounding or system voltage too low
7 Flashes --- Gas valve circuit error
8 Flashes --- Low flame sense signal
9 Flashes --- Check Ignitor Circuit and Line "N" to 24VAC "Common" voltage (≤ 2 volts)
[possible grounding problem]

 
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11-20-09, 11:10 PM   #2 (permalink)  
You describe the sequence of operation you see well enough, but I'd be concerned that you aren't seeing the whole sequence.

I'd start by turning the thermostat all the way down until the furnace is off. Turn the power switch off for 15 seconds, then back on. That should reset the furnace.

The turn the thermostat up to 80 degrees and observe the sequence of operation again.

See if there are differences between what you reported earlier.

 
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11-21-09, 02:51 AM   #3 (permalink)  
Reset

Posted By: SeattlePioneer You describe the sequence of operation you see well enough, but I'd be concerned that you aren't seeing the whole sequence. I'd start by turning the thermostat all the way down until the furnace is off. Turn the power switch off for 15 seconds, then back on. That should reset the furnace. The turn the thermostat up to 80 degrees and observe the sequence of operation again. See if there are differences between what you reported earlier.
Thank you for replying. I did try resetting the furnace a few times. Before and after replacing the ignitor. Turned down the thermostat, turned off the heat, closed the gas valve, turned off the power switch. Even tried turning it off at the fuse box a couple times before reversing. I get the same sequence of events after resetting. Discussed this briefly with HVAC person at work, I did not have the error code on hand. He suggested checking the flue to make sure there isn't a blockage. Said the inducer should be running longer & maybe bad ignition board. I'm not sure how reliable the error code chart is, if it is reliable. I would think a venting issue would be 3 flashes & a board issue would be continuously on (replace IFC). Still will be checking flue when I get up (if I get to sleep, almost 6 am here). Do you happen to know if a Cable installation or a down phone line near us, could cause an issue with Grounding in the house (at least one the would cause an issue with the furnace)...

 
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11-21-09, 06:54 AM   #4 (permalink)  
Unfortunately, I can't find the instruction manual for your furnace.

Please list the model number, which can be obtained from the rating plate located inside the burner compartment for the furnace.

 
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11-21-09, 03:17 PM   #5 (permalink)  
Model number.

The only thing I see inside are some wiring diagrams. One of them is for the Integrated Furnace Control, not sure if that is what you need or if it's the actual Furnace. The IFC info is: Control Part No: D341396PO1 & Replacement part is: CNT03076 The Enegray Rating sticker has little to no information on it other that Effeciency. Found an installers guide and service facts document, that lists several models. I'm only going to list the ones from the installer guide. UD040C-J, UD060C-J, UD080C-J, UD100C-J, UD120C-J, UD140C-J & DD040C-D, DD060C-D, DD080C-D, DD100C-D, DD120C-D. Checked Flue...from roof, from inducer motor side & into chimney side. It looks clear, could hear the wind blowing outside. Also traced the ground out of furnace. Attempted to test "Line "N" to Common" with multimeter. If I did it correctly and read the multimeter correctly it was less than 2 volts.

 
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11-22-09, 12:51 PM   #6 (permalink)  
Make sure the stat is not cutting out. You can test for this by seeing if voltage drops out from terminal W to common or ground in the furnace compartment where the stat wires all hook up.

Make sure the induction motor is not losing voltage to it.

And if it is losing voltage to it, analyze wiring diagram and see if perhap there is a damper control in the system that might be faulty, blocked or something. A sequencing or delay type relay may be involved and this may be normal. (It is on a Lennox I take care of.) Not having it come back on though, for keeps, thereafter, is not.

Until the inducer runs constant, the ignition sequence will either not start or will abruptly shut off the igniton and gas valve.

Regarding the 15 ohms reading - is your meter digital, or analog that has the pointer needle? If the latter, you have to what is called "zero out" the meter so the needle points exactly to 0. I've never ran into an HSI with that low of a reading, even new. But the fact it does have a reading typical of what some glowing burner elements have, I'd imagine it have to be good.

 
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11-22-09, 01:49 PM   #7 (permalink)  
IFC - Possible bad circuit on board

Will check the W Terminal when I get back. I did put the reader on the inducer and when the furnace turns on. If I remember correctly (tried checking so many things) it gets voltage, then cuts out when the error code light starts up. Believe the entire Ignition Circuit is shutting down as soon as the error starts, thinking that's why the fan starts, but the pressure switch (which appears to be OK) never turns on...now that I think of it, the is probably after the fan and before the pressure switch. Guess I can try to trace the circuit around to see what's in between.

Earlier I uploaded two pics from a phone, not a great quality. Read the board model becomes brown in back and dies. This one appears ok, however there are a couple of circuits that appear yellow/brownish on a few nodes. Worried this could be the issue.... here is a link to a combination of the photos of the back of the board.

combo_IFC on Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Not sure if the discolloration is something to worry about. Or, if it's OK. The pics I've seen of fried boards, they are completely black in the "bad" area.


Last edited by Gozar; 11-22-09 at 01:51 PM. Reason: post link to photo
 
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11-23-09, 08:53 AM   #8 (permalink)  
Posted By: Gozar Will check the W Terminal when I get back. I did put the reader on the inducer and when the furnace turns on. If I remember correctly (tried checking so many things) it gets voltage, then cuts out when the error code light starts up. Believe the entire Ignition Circuit is shutting down as soon as the error starts, thinking that's why the fan starts, but the pressure switch (which appears to be OK) never turns on...now that I think of it, the is probably after the fan and before the pressure switch. Guess I can try to trace the circuit around to see what's in between.

Earlier I uploaded two pics from a phone, not a great quality. Read the board model becomes brown in back and dies. This one appears ok, however there are a couple of circuits that appear yellow/brownish on a few nodes. Worried this could be the issue.... here is a link to a combination of the photos of the back of the board.

combo_IFC on Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Not sure if the discolloration is something to worry about. Or, if it's OK. The pics I've seen of fried boards, they are completely black in the "bad" area.
When you volt check the pressure switch, let us know if it has 2 wires or 3. Current is not supposed to be cutting off going into the pressure switch. If current gets cut off on the outgoing wire from the pressure switch(but still has 24 volt current coming into it), that is a totally separate issue where the furnace has either lost it's ability to vent properly(caused by something simple to something serious) or there is a blockage with the vacuum tubing or the switch is bad.

Biut if you even lose power coming into the pressure switch, then that could be from a thermsotat issue, bad connection, bad board/andor bad relay of some sort.

I'll check out the pics when I get the chance. Am in a hurry right now. Should not even be here posting right now. But to me, I'd say any discoloration is not a good thing.

 
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11-23-09, 01:17 PM   #9 (permalink)  
3 - Wires

The Pressure Switch has 3 wires going in. One of the wires has two connections. Cable did drill a hole near the line from the thermostat. I thought it was too far away to be an issue. It's difficult to get to verify. Sound like I'm going to have to check.

 
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11-23-09, 03:54 PM   #10 (permalink)  
So does the pressure switch have 2 spade connectors? And on one spade is one wire, and on the other spade is 2 wires?

When you start your 3rd sentence with "Cable..........", you lose me. It sounds as if someone by the name of Mr. Cable drilled a hole. Please explain better. Are you thinking the way a hole is drilled that one wire is maybe shorted to another?

 
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11-25-09, 07:12 AM   #11 (permalink)  
Cable Guy

Sorry...the cable guy was out and did drill near the thermostat. A family friend called and walked me through testing out the Circuit Board with my Multi-Meter. Have power coming into the board and going out to the board. But, when I turn on the furnace, it's pushing power to the Inducer Motor when initially turned on. Power immediately cuts out and loses power. He thinks the board is probably bad and giving me a faulty error code possibly a bad circuit.

 
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11-25-09, 07:31 AM   #12 (permalink)  
If it's not from a bad inducer capacitor or bad inducer wire connection, or bad inducer motor, and the inducer relay is on the board, it could indeed be the board.

 
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11-25-09, 08:00 AM   #13 (permalink)  
Since the board is energized, and the thermostat is reliably energizing the proper terminal, you should have reliable power to keep the inducer motor turned on.

I'd replace the board.

 
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11-28-09, 05:50 AM   #14 (permalink)  
Replaced Board

I ordered a replacement board Wednesday Morning. It arrived late yesterday. Tried to buy it locally but every person I called wanted almost $290 for the board. Found the latest model online for $114 + overnight shipping. It was a local shop in PA (I live in Michigan). I just can't believe how much is made on the the parts, maybe they have to make up for the stock they don't end up using. I heard the boards get updated regularly and if you keep them in stock for emergency situations you probably loose money.

Anyway, took 5 minutes to replace the board. Turned on the furnace and it kicked right in. The inducer motor kept running, pressure switch kicked in, the ignitor finally lit and then the gas switched on...

The 9 flashes was so misleading. I assume some nodes in one of the ingition circuits got fried.

Thanks for all of your in put.

 
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11-30-09, 07:54 AM   #15 (permalink)  
Glad you got it fixed for reasonable(knock on wood, we hope) and now you will have more money for Christmas, than you would have.

 
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