Replacing a heat pump CHEAPLY

[db4570]

In a previous thread, I asked about fixing an aging heat pump, and it seems the general consensus here and from my current HVAC repair guy is that it's too old (15+ yrs.) to justify putting any money into. I'm also hearing numbers like $5000 being suggested, which is really painful to hear.

So I start poking around on line, and find things like this:

Goodman R410A 13 SEER Complete Split System Heat Pump 2.5 Ton GSZ130301, ARPF182

Under $1500, including shipping. Looks like I'd need the lines, another $150 or so, and the electric coils (or can I re-use my old ones?) and a filter. But under $2k for the whole works.

I know Goodman is considered to be a lower-end brand, but so are Kia cars, and they're pretty reliable, and right now I'd be satisfied with the Kia of heat pumps. How bad could it be?

I found a guy on Craigs List that says he's fully certified, referenced, etc., and he'll hook it up. Don't have a price form him yet. I'm thinking if I move the pieces into place and have him do the final connections, it shouldn't be too involved, right? (Positive thinking here.)

So let's hear what's wrong with my plan.

Thanks for any help!

David

[Pilot Dane]

First, check with your local code requirements. Installation or replacement of your heat pump may require a permit or that it be done by an installer with a license though many places will let the homeowner perform the work on your own home.

I can't say how many different units I've bought from Ingrams over the years but it's been quite a few though most are package units. They have been good to work with and provide tech support when it's needed so I have no complaints there.

I would not consider re-using the heat strips from your old heat pump. The odds are very slim that they will fit and new ones are relatively inexpensive so if you're putting in a new unit get off the hundred dollars for new heat strips.

Finding someone on C'list has me suspicious. How much of the work are you capable of performing? If you can get everything properly installed and just need to hire someone to purge and charge I imagine you'd be pretty safe. If you want to find a cheap shmoo of the street to remove your old units and completely install the new one I would be hesitant.

[airman.1994]

2500 to 3500 per ton would be right for my area for a good unit installed by a good company

[hvactechfw]

NO WARRANTY ON INTERNET PURCHASED EQUIPMENT! Internet Sales Void Warranty

buyer beware.... While that site you were thinking about purchasing from probably will warranty the items, you wont get the part locally and have to wait for it in the mail. Check their policies specifically.

[db4570]

2500 to 3500 per ton would be right for my area for a good unit installed by a good company

$3500 per ton times 2.5 tons = $8750. If all the components are under $2k, your HVAC guy makes $6750 a day. Good for him if he can get it. Not from me, though. For almost 9k, I'll figure out how to do it myself. Even if I completely destroy three entire systems before I get it right, I'm still money ahead!

David

[db4570]

I am definitely going to try to confirm that anyone I hire is qualified, and not just some dude from Craigslist. One guy I'm talking to is rattling off all sorts of qualifications and credentials he has, but I need to figure out how to confirm it.

In our previous house we needed the central AC replaced, and my old landlord, who I was friends with, installed it in a couple hours with me helping. He had done a bunch of them over the years on properties he owned, and I think used to be certified in some way.

I'm trying to find someone like that who does this as a sideline without all the full-service company overhead, but who still knows what he's doing.

That is interesting about Goodman voiding the warranty on internet sales. I guess they make a decent case for why they do so, though.

David

[hvactechfw]

its not just goodman, ALL manfuctures to my knowledge, void warranty on internet sales.

[db4570]

Hmm, I just got a reply from another ad on CL I replied to. Here is part of it:

"Also the new refrigerant is very fussy about the process of hooking up the lineset. It requires that the lineset be braised as opposed to solder and that dry nitrogen be run through the lineset when putting it together. There are some manufactures that are having severe problems with their products."

It sounds like, if this guy is telling the truth, that it may be more complicated than I thought, because of the new refrigerant. Is this all true?

Also, as far as the warranty, Ingram's talks about the 10 year warranty, then has a page with the Goodman warranty details, and it states clearly that internet sales void it.

Hmmm...

David

[hvactechfw]

Linesets needed brazed with the old refrigerant. R410A is not fussy, if it is charged properly there is no problem, having said that you must be EPA certified to handle refrigerant. I dont know of severe problems unless the proper procedures were not followed during installation.

[airman.1994]

That price was for a high end unit. In no way is goodman a highend unit.

[db4570]

I was doing my price analysis to make a point, and was being a little sarcastic.

So what are the differences between a Goodman and a high-end unit?

David

[db4570]

Now I'm thinking about replacing just the outdoor unit with another R22 unit, Buy Geothermal Heat Pumps | Goodman Heat Pump | Goodman Air Conditioners for under $1200.

I found a guy who is a commercial property maintenance guy who wants to install it after hours for $150. He talks like he knows his stuff and has done a bunch of these things, and has all the special tools, etc. I am going to try to check a reference or two. I'm not worried about losing the $150 if he does it wrong, I'm worried about him ruining the system.

I realize that this whole situation makes me the King of the Cheapskates, but I don't have the cash right now to bring in a full-service HVAC company to do the whole works for $6k, which is the number I'm getting.

Any additional pointers are appreciated.

Thanks!

David

[hvactechfw]

You will get what you pay for. That is your call and depending on your situation that may be the correct call. Make sure you buy a bi-flow liquid line filter drier. Also you will need HP legs if it snows where you live. Good luck in your endeavors.........

[PHXHEATPUMP]

Splitting units gets complicated. I have been asked to put a dry r-22 condenser on a trane unit but turned it down. Not to get too complicated but if the indoor coil uses a txv it may work out just fine but if it is fixed orifice or cap tube you will have problems in heating mode with pressures if the exact SEER ratings do not match. I would'nt do it because I would be out there every year at winter time playing with the charge to keep it from cutting out on high pressure. Bottom line match the two units or you will more than likely pay down the road and wish you had done so.

The Craigslist response was probably about flushing the current line set since you had r-22 and its associated oil and replacing it with r-410a and a different oil. that is true. Yes the copped needs to be brazed in. Questions, are these guys going to run a real vacuum on the lineset, braze with nitrogen, use a micrometer etc. the way it should be done??? I just installed a goodman package unit this morning and they work great. Not top of the line, granted. but.....

I would take a Goodman with a killer install job over a Lennox with a crappy one any day of the week.

[db4570]

Thanks for the information, guys.

I found an article from Carrier about why you should be careful mixing outdoor and indoor units.

It makes sense.

I am now leaning toward replacing the whole system. I need to find a qualified HVAC tech that will charge a lot less than the $4k a full-service dealer would charge for labor.

David