Ceiling Fan Problem: fan works but lights, wall switch and remote don't work


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Old 09-02-13, 06:42 PM
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Ceiling Fan Problem: fan works but lights, wall switch and remote don't work

This fan has worked fine for many years with no problems. Suddenly, the wall switch (hardwire) won't turn the fan or the lights off or on though the green light is on. The remote won't turn the fan or lights off or on either. The fan will work properly when turned off, on or the speed changed from the pull cord itself. The light will not go on even when the pull chain is used at the unit.

Clearly, power is getting to the unit because the fan works fine but neither the wall switch nor remote can control the fan anymore. I removed the lower switching and light unit that unscrews from beneath the fan unit to check the wires. Everything appears to be in order at that point. Power is getting to that unit because that's where the fan switch is that is working.

I ran a meter on an empty light socket. Both sockets return 18 ohms regardless of how many times I pull the cord. At no point is voltage registered in the light sockets.

What do you think the cause of this might be? Is it possible (hard to believe though) that a faulty pull cord switch for the light could make the light, wall switch and remote switch inoperable? What's my next step?

Thanks,

Don
 
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Old 09-02-13, 06:54 PM
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Welcome to the forums.

Your fan's remote control is not working. Do you have the model where the wall switch matches and controls the fan's remote control ?

What manufacturer are we talking about here ?
 
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Old 09-02-13, 07:32 PM
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What do you think the cause of this might be? Is it possible (hard to believe though) that a faulty pull cord switch for the light could make the light, wall switch and remote switch inoperable?
Possible but doubtful.

What's my next step?
There are two next steps. One is to post the make and model of your remote control so that we can all look into its characteristics together. The other is to make sure that any batteries it requires are fresh and strong.
 
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Old 09-02-13, 10:10 PM
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Let's clarify things here. You seem to be jumping on the remote control. I just provided that as additional information to show the complete complexity of the problem. That is not the problem. I have never used the remote control and I didn't say this was just a remote issue. This is a Hunter. I don't really want to get a ladder and try to find the exact model. Honestly don't believe knowing the model number would make much difference since it's worked perfectly for 9 years. We can throw the remote away for all I care about it.

So let's be very clear here. The hardwire wall switch is not working at all though it is receiving power (green light is on) and the fan is receiving power because I can use the fan through the pull change switch. So let's not just focus on the remote and battery issues because you are missing the point entirely. The hardwire wall switch we have used for 9 years to control both the fan and the light does not do anything. The remote doesn't either. But the fan does work when directly controlled from the unit but the light does not. This all happened at one time. All these problems occurred simultaneously. This is not a remote issue. I only tried the remote for the first time in years after the wall switch signals were not being received by the unit.
 
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Old 09-02-13, 10:36 PM
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So let's not just focus on the remote and battery issues because you are missing the point entirely.
I understand that you're feeling frustrated, but I'm not sure why you posted a question here if you're not willing to engage in a conversation that's intended to help you find an answer.


This is a Hunter. I don't really want to get a ladder and try to find the exact model.
Nobody has asked you to do that. In fact, nobody has asked you to tell us what fan you have. The two requests for more information were
Your fan's remote control is not working. Do you have the model where the wall switch matches and controls the fan's remote control?
and
There are two next steps. One is to post the make and model of your remote control so that we can all look into its characteristics together.
Those are both requests for more specific information about your controls.

I only tried the remote for the first time in years after the wall switch signals were not being received by the unit.
Would you expect it to be in good condition to work, with sufficient battery power, if it hasn't been used in years?

To help move the conversation along:
  • What is the make and model of your wall control?

  • The hardwire wall switch is not working at all though it is receiving power (green light is on) and the fan is receiving power because I can use the fan through the pull change switch. So let's not just focus on the remote and battery issues...
    OK. How are the wall control and the remote configured to work together?

  • In addition to any required batteries, have you tested the condition of the light bulbs?

  • Please read Do It Yourself.Com Web Sites Rules, Posting Content and Policies and Electrical Forum Rules and Policies.
 
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Old 09-02-13, 11:40 PM
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By remote.....I didn't mean the handheld remote. You said the fan/light wall switch had a green light so it has power. Consequently since the switch has a green light on it..... that's telling me that you have a remote control switching module in your fan. The switch runs on two wires between it and and the fan instead of the required three and transmits the commands from the wall switch to the receiver.

Since the fan works with the pullchain the fan power relay in the receiver is on.
Since the light doesn't work the light power relay in the receiver is off.

Does that make sense ?
 
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Old 09-03-13, 10:56 AM
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There appears to have been some confusion around our references to the remote control for your fan/light combo. I regret that.

Your fan and light are controlled by a remote receiver/controller, probably mounted in the fan's canopy. That receiver/controller can get signals from two different transmitters. One is your hand-held remote and the other is your wall switch.

That was clear to us from your original post, and we went straight to asking questions about that. We referred to it as "the remote" without explaining what we knew or how we knew it, and without stopping to think that this might be confusing. Again, I regret that.

If you would like to continue diagnosing why that system appears to have stopped functioning, we'll be here.
 
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Old 09-03-13, 04:49 PM
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Yes, this makes as a lot of sense. Now I understand where you were headed. That would tend to point in the direction of the receiver in the base part of the fan/light unit where all the wires and switches are located. There are two black units one larger than the other that connect to the pull chain switches and to the lights and fans. The remote unit is a Hunter 85094-01. The wall switch is also a Hunter and appears to be the sister of this unit.

I did check both the batteries and the lights. If a voltage meter shows no 120 V current going to the light sockets regardless of how many times I pull the chain switch, then there is no power going to those light sockets. Fan gets power, Lights don't get power. All remote and wall switches don't work. Don't believe the light pull chain switch is broken since it has almost never been used.

Now, about those two black receiver units in the base. The smaller one has two wires coming from it, one red and one white. The larger unit has four wires, green, brown, and two greys. Three of the four wires (green brown, grey) coming out of the bigger black unit go to the fan chain switch. The other grey wire goes to the fan directional switch. There is a white and a black wire that go to the lights. Through screw on wire connectors, the lights appear to be getting direct power from the main wires where one wire is connected to another white wire that goes to the small black unit. It appears the only way the big black unit related to the fan gets power is through the one grey wire that connects to the directional switch where other white wires, yellow wires and pink wires go into.

So, is the problem tending more toward the receivers in the base or the wall switching unit?

Thanks,

Don
 
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Old 09-03-13, 05:57 PM
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Don,

Those two black boxes you are talking about sound like motor start capacitors.

I believe the actual remote is in the ceiling canopy and is usually white.

Nash may have a better idea.
 
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Old 09-03-13, 06:09 PM
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Quick answer 1: The remote receiver/controller should be housed in the canopy and connected to the house wiring, for input, and the leads to the fan and light, for output. It should look like one of these. The black things you're looking at in the hub should be switches and capacitors.

Quick answer 2: Test the connector for the light for power while you have the hub open.

Quick answer 3: I've drawn a blank on the model # for your remote at hunterfan.com. I will try searching deeper later. Do you have a model # for the wall unit?

It may be time to find the model # for the fan itself.

Nash may have a better idea.
No! In fact, funny echo in here.

Don, does this look familiar?
Name:  Hunter remote 2a.jpg
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Old 09-04-13, 04:16 PM
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I have not been in the canopy yet so I have not looked at the remote receiver/controller. I just removed the lower hub and didn't want to take apart more than necessary before getting some idea about what is going on. The model number is not on the outside of the unit.

I'm actually not sure that is important. I went through the Hunter catalog. This unit is 10 years old so it isn't going to be exactly the same as what they show. But one thing is clear. Aside from the outside cosmetic differences, the basic design of a fan and light combo unit are the same even though the exact part numbers may differ for some models. There is no difference in the operational and electric wiring for a fan/light combo unit with three speeds. The only difference would be the part numbers required to replace certain items.

Yes, my remote looks like what you are showing. The wall switch is like the original version shown in the catalog I believe.

You've asked me a lot of questions and provided me with more operation about parts of the unit and what they do. Now, I need some thought about what this all means. Is the problem most likely in the controller unit? If it is, what would one do about that short of replacing it? And what if that is not the problem? I don't want to replace such a thing if I don't need to.

Based on all the information provided, what do you feel is the most likely problem here and what would it take to fix it?
 
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Old 09-04-13, 04:31 PM
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The remote receiver/controller is the next thing I'd check. I'd start by checking the dip switch settings on all three devices (assuming they have those), the power coming into the canopy, and the output from the controller.

Amend that. I'd check the power and connections at the wall switch next. It's a lot easier and eliminates a possibility.
 
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Old 09-07-13, 12:00 PM
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I know I’m jumping in kinda late on this, and you may already have your problem fixed one way or another, but.
I am only guessing that you will have two hot legs from the wall switch to the unit.
One for the light circuit and one for the fan circuit.
If you have two hot legs from the wall switch, you will also have two hot legs to the unit from the ceiling, one for fan, one for lights.

Whether wired with two hot legs from switch to unit, or a single hot leg to the unit, every ceiling fan, with lights, that I have seen has two pull switches, one for the lights and one for the fan.
With the problem you’ve described, the first thing I would check is the light pull switch.
If you have power to the hot leg that connects to the light pull switch, but no lights, then my money will go to a bad light pull switch, a generic one cost’s maybe a buck ninety five plus tax.

If you have no power to the hot leg of the light pull switch itself, then I would check the hot leg that goes to the light circuit from the wall switch, and see if you have power on the hot side with the switch off and on both sides with the switch on.
If no power shows at each side of the wall light switch with the switch turned on, then my money goes to a bad wall switch.

If you have no power at the hot leg of the light pull switch, and power at the component side of the wall light switch with that switch turned on, then you might need to get up on your ladder and check for power at the wires coming out of the ceiling to the unit.
Not always an easy task, but at times necessary.
If you have power on “both” hot legs that go to the unit, and no power to the light pull switch, then there is something in the light circuit itself, such as maybe that little black box that is in the light circuit, which is breaking the circuit.

About model numbers and asking for them.
There are times when you can go to a manufacturer’s web site and use the model number to find paper work on the particular item.
Such paper work can at times give you a trouble-shooting guide to help diagnose problems.
And some often include wiring diagrams showing components that someone could look at and possibly theorize a problem and make suggestions about what to try next.
 
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Old 09-07-13, 12:37 PM
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Mister ed......

In this case the poster has a two wire cable between the switch and the fan. The control sends the commands up the wire to the remote and it does the switching.

As far as wiring diagrams from manufacturers websites.... there are so many fans that the wiring was never posted for most of them.
 
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Old 09-07-13, 01:39 PM
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O.K., you may have somewhat lost me on this.
I really haven't worked much with remote controlled ceiling fans except to "not install the remote mechanism, per home owners desire, when I installed one for him," about five years ago.
He said don't worry about installing it, cause it would never be used anyway.
I still have that remote control unit with the remote, that I have procrastinated about installing to control an outside light, and carry the remote in my truck.
I should also add that the remote that I did not install is not the same as the one pictured below.

It took me fifteen minutes, but I found that unit, which has no manufacturer name on it.
It has the hot, black, and neutral, white legs coming in on one side; an antenna sticking out at the end; and a blue, a white, and a black leg coming out the other side.
The blue is marked for light, the black is marked for fan load and white marked for fan neutral.
And the wiring diagram on the control unit itself shows that it would have been installed in the canopy.
wired directly to the ceiling wires, black and white, and the three other wires, blue black and white going to the fan and light.

When you say "a two wire cable between the switch and fan," are you talking about the "house" wires from the wall switch to the fan unit, or are you talking about a two wire cable that runs from the remote control unit in the canopy to the fan and light below?

With this unit, see photo, power comes in on the obvious side, and the remote causes power to be sent to the black leg through the box, or causes power to be sent to the blue leg through the box.
If there is power on the main hot leg, and power to the fan, but no power to the light circuit and light pull switch, then the unit itself would be bad, at least on this unit.
That is why I suggested testing the light pull switch for power on the hot side, which if there is no power going to the light pull switch, then there cannot be power to the light sockets.
And I have seen those pull switches just decide on their own to go bad regardless of how little they have been used.
 
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Old 09-09-13, 04:03 PM
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When you say "a two wire cable between the switch and fan," are you talking about the "house" wires from the wall switch to the fan unit, or are you talking about a two wire cable that runs from the remote control unit in the canopy to the fan and light below?
A two-wire (two-conductor) cable between the switch on the wall and the fan/light combo on the ceiling. House wiring.

And yes, that image is what many fan/light remote receiver/controllers look like.
 
 

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