Question about switching to a gas range.


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Old 05-25-15, 11:51 AM
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Question about switching to a gas range.

Hey guys, first post. I recently moved into my first house and I'd like to replace the electric range with a gas one. I slid the current range out to see what was going on behind it and was hoping to see a capped nipple sticking out of the wall or something to indicate there was gas pipe back there, but there wasn't. It had the 240v outlet that my current range was plugged into, but there was also a single gang 110v outlet. (excuse all the previous homeowners' crap) Name:  IMG_1089.jpg
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I can't figure out why there would be a 110v outlet permanently hidden behind the range unless it was put there to provide the electrical to a future gas range. I guess the only way to really find out is to open up the wall, but I'm just looking for any thoughts on the likelihood of there being a gas line back there before I start tearing stuff up. House was built in 2001 by Perry Homes, and has a gas furnace, gas water heater, and gas fireplace. No gas dryer, at least not that I can tell.

Thanks!
 
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Old 05-25-15, 12:34 PM
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I can't figure out why there would be a 110v outlet permanently hidden behind the range
Actually a 120 receptacle. Your house doesn't have 110. It could be there to meet the 6-foot rule require by code. Doesn't matter where the receptacle ends up. Code just requires it. Look in the basement or attic to see if there is a gas line going into the wall. I doubt it though.
 
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Old 05-25-15, 12:52 PM
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I seriously doubt the receptacle is in that location for any purpose/reason/excuse other than to serve a gas-fired range. Running two circuits to serve either a gas or electric range has become somewhat common in the last decade or so.

Where is the gas piping to the other appliances run? Do you have a basement or crawlspace? There MAY be a plugged tee in the gas piping to be used in the future to run piping to the range location. If no plugged tee then you will need to do a full calculation to determine if the existing gas piping may be added to for the range.
 
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Old 05-25-15, 02:10 PM
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Where is the gas piping to the other appliances run?
The gas to my water heater and furnace is run in the attic where both the appliances are located. I don't see it tee off anywhere else, at least not in the attic, for my fireplace though. My fireplace is on the first floor of a two story house (no basement), so my best guess is that the the gas comes in to my house, travels up the wall, has a tee right at the second story floor level with one leg being the pipe for my fireplace and the other continuing up the wall, into the attic to supply the furnace and water heater.

Would contacting the builder possibly be of any help?
 
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Old 05-25-15, 02:31 PM
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Would contacting the builder possibly be of any help?
It can't hurt. The worst he would tell you is that he doesn't know or remember.

Is the range location on an outside wall? Is it anywhere near the gas meter? Running new piping through the wall and back to the meter may be the best alternative.
 
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Old 05-25-15, 03:15 PM
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Is the range location on an outside wall?
It is, but it's on the opposite side of the house. I do plan on putting a pool in the backyard at some point within the next several years, and the side of the house where the range is located is where I plan to have the heater/other pool equipment, so I could just get it all done at once then, if that's what has to happen.
 
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Old 05-25-15, 03:41 PM
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Since you already have piping in the attic it may not be a huge job to run a larger pipe (if necessary) from the meter to the attic, connect it to the existing and then extend across to the other side of the house. You need to first determine the total BTUs/hour consumed by all appliances, including the proposed swimming pool heater, and work from there. Piping has to be sized by length as well as total gas flow. It is possible that you will eventually need a bigger gas meter as well.
 
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Old 05-25-15, 04:24 PM
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Eh, changing the piping from the meter all the way to the attic seems like a bigger deal than it's worth, to me at least. I would prefer a gas range due to price and a few other things, but if the only way to get it is to do all that, I'll just bite the bullet and get an induction range. If/when I do the pool thing, I'll just get them to run enough pipe and/or replace the meter to be able to supply the heater and a future range so that when the induction one craps out, I could easily make the switch to gas.
 
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Old 05-25-15, 04:30 PM
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Caveat not a plumber. You might be able to tee off the meter for an underground line around the house to the outside wall where the stove is.
 
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Old 05-25-15, 04:49 PM
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Caveat not a plumber. You might be able to tee off the meter for an underground line around the house to the outside wall where the stove is.
Yeah, that's likely what I'll end up doing in the event I put a swimming pool in, as the location I want the pool equipment is right next to where the range is.
 
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Old 05-25-15, 06:52 PM
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Trenching from the meter to the other side of the house would be the most common method but not one I would do as underground almost always means a specific plastic piping with welded joints...not what I call DIY friendly.

Replacing the existing riser from the meter to the attic MIGHT be fairly easy if it is outside the house. If it is inside the wall then you are correct, forget about it.

I would love to have an induction range, especially since I have burnt myself a couple of times on my solid (electric) burners. Darn lucky it wasn't a large second degree burn considering my slow reaction times.
 
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Old 05-27-15, 06:53 AM
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I would like to make a suggestion on a pool heater if it is alright to hijack this thread. I live in WNY and have a 28' above ground pool. We heat our pool with a solar heater. Water flows through the heater via our filtration pump. The pump runs only 8 hours a day once the pools is thoroughly cleaned at start up.

Last year we shut the pool heater off in August because the pools was up to 88º. We opened the pool around the first of June. The pool heater is 4'X20' and cost about $250. We have had it over 10 years and have had no problems. With you living in TX, I would think very hard on getting a solar heater.
 
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Old 05-27-15, 08:16 AM
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The pool not withstanding, a gas range uses very little gas consumption. Tapping off the nearest 3/4 line to 1/2 feed will do the job. With all due respect to FURD I doubt you need to recalculate anything. Gas pressure and flow should be more than enough. Follow all code and check with local town if you are allowed to do this on your own. I live in Western New York and have done this several times (and yes I followed code and had to re-do, licensed plumbers piping because it was dangerously located and not supported properly). The gas company allowed the previous owner of my house to pipe this house after they installed meter up to the house. I also had to re-pipe that disaster.

Landfillwizards idea of a solar heater is a good one. And yes it has been shown with data we have more sunshine per summer days than many south or western areas. And the cost is very reasonable.
 
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Old 05-27-15, 02:14 PM
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Norm, each individual burner on a gas range will take somewhere between 5,000 and 9,000 BTUs per hour on a typical consumer grade range. Commercial models made for homes may have burners as high as 25,000 BTUs per hour. The oven in bake mode will be around 20,000 BTUs per hour or about 30,000 BTUs per hour in broil mode. That makes a "typical" (whatever typical means) BTU load of 30 to 50 thousand BTUs per hour not at all unusual for a family that actually cooks their own meals.

If the gas piping from the meter to the point of take-off for the range was not sized with a future range in mind it could very well be too small to supply the additional load when everything was in use. The calculation is not that difficult and most certainly should be done, if for no other reason than peace of mind.
 
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Old 05-28-15, 03:53 AM
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Furd, I don't necessarily dis-agree with you. In most communities (those where gas utilization is common, along with electrical appliances) (I know in PA. there area where gas is not very common), the builders don't know what the end home owner will want as far as ranges, ovens, heating, hot water, dryers or other multifuel appliances will be used. To that end development tracts will need to be designed to handle both. They will be "over" designed or built accordingly. Granted the development may be originally designed for just electric or oil or gas but should ready to accept either. My development of about 500 homes were built during the gas moratorium in the early '70's. All the homes were built with electric everything. When the moratorium was lifted at least half the people converted. In many cases the gas company installed gas lines and service up to the house and meter. Beyond that many owners did their own inside piping (and most did it wrong). Point being there have been no reports of insufficient gas flow or pressure. This includes converting to heat and stoves. The option to provide a gas fired pool heater would require a calculation. What does bother me is the electrical service. Back then I don't think the proliferation of electronic devices was anticipated along with many other electrical items that are common today was realized. Many homes are "short" of room or tapped out in there switch boxes. Again the addition of just a gas range being tapped off a 3/4 feed line should not be problem. Sure, do the calculation but its just an exercise in math and no harm done.
 
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Old 05-28-15, 11:31 AM
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I understand your position, Norm, I just don't think it is as cut-and-dried as you put it.

My house was built in 1987 and had gas from the beginning. BUT the gas is only for the furnace and the water heater. The fireplace (such as it is) is a model that allows for the installation of a gas log but it was not installed that way nor is there any piping from my gas main for it. Neither does my kitchen have any gas piping. I have a one-inch pipe from my gas meter to the area where my furnace and water heater is installed and there it splits to two, 1/2 inch feeds, one to each unit.

On the other hand, my sister (she lives about eight miles away) lives in a much newer house, built in 2006, and she has an all-gas home including furnace, water heater, fireplace and kitchen range. In addition to the gas for her range there is also a 40 (or 50) ampere 240/120 volt circuit in case someone preferred an electric range. In other words, the house was built with the idea that all the appliances would be gas-fired and so the piping was installed to accommodate that end. That is NOT true in my house and IF I had any plans on installing a gas range (I don't) the piping would indeed need to be increased in size from the meter to the point where the furnace and water heater tee off. I MIGHT be able to tee of the existing piping for a small gas log in the fireplace but maybe not.

Remember what Mike (Lawrosa) has stated many times, that inadequate gas piping may handle some of the appliances at the same time it will not handle all of them, and especially something like a gas range that has a wide range of gas flows, at the same time.

Back to the original topic. Since the original post concerns a home that did NOT have gas piped to the kitchen for a gas range it simply cannot be assumed that the existing piping from the meter is adequate for the increased consumption. It MAY be okay but it may not and you cannot know for certain without the calculation.
 
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Old 05-31-15, 04:41 AM
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Well it looks like I'm going to eat a little crow today. Furd, yesterday as the Mrs. and I were out buying a new fridge and microwave l started browsing at the latest venue in gas ranges. I see that they have changed dramatically from the usual four burner and oven unit. The burns are bigger, and most have a lager "grill" style burner in the middle. I also noticed the ovens are bigger and BTU capacities are greater. So yes, I guess a gas consumption calculation may be in order more often than not.
 
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Old 05-31-15, 09:30 PM
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Norm, no one is perfect, certainly not me (or is it I?). I hope that we are allowed a few mistakes as we proceed through life. If not, I'm in a real world of hurt.
 
 

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