Leveling bathroom floor for tile and tub


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Old 02-04-15, 04:54 PM
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Leveling bathroom floor for tile and tub

I am redoing a 5x6.5ft bathroom in my 1920's home. I have removed and replaced the 3/4 inch plywood subfloor where my 1 inch hexagonal tiles will be going (I kept the old diagonal subfloor where the tub will go). I sistered some 2x10 joists (span for the joists is about 8 feet) that the original plumber had cut through and put LOTS of blocking in. I used jacks in the basement to fix the dip from the plumber's hack job but my house is just crooked and from the window wall (where the tub will go) to the bathroom door there is a 1 and 3/8 inch slope. I can only add a height of 3/4" to meet the original cast iron toilet flange (still in good shape) so I can't get the floor completely level but I would like to make some improvement. After much searching I am still not sure the best method. I was thinking about using a 1/4 inch backerboard and then pouring leveling compound in the low areas. Is it okay to just pour leveling compound in part of the room fanning it thing at the edges? Thanks
 
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Old 02-05-15, 05:44 AM
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Set the cement board in a bed of mortar and tape the seams with mesh tape and some thinset pulled smooth. Roll on some self leveling primer to the area you want to level and wait until it dries. Then you can pour your self leveling compound. Don't just pour and walk away, you won't be happy with the results. It needs to be urged along as it spreads out. It will set up fairly fast and you can do some minor shaping if you have a bad spot before full cure. Keep in mind that all self leveling compounds are not equal, read the back of your brand to find the max. thickness allowed in a pour. Some up to 1", others up to 2" thick.

If your flange gets buried a little, just move up to a #10 thick wax ring, or stack a plain wax ring on top of a reinforced wax ring and get longer bolts.
 
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Old 02-05-15, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Bindy
Is it okay to just pour leveling compound in part of the room fanning it thin at the edges? Thanks
Yes, that's one way. Be sure to install the concrete backer on the entire floor since SLC do not work over ply unless lath is installed.

Originally Posted by Bindy
I can only add a height of 3/4" to meet the original cast iron toilet flange
Don't limit yourself just because of the flange. The flange can be easily changed or shimmed as needed. At what level will the bottom of the flange be relative to the finished flooring as it is now?

Jaz
 
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Old 02-09-15, 12:13 PM
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Thinset - which is better?

I've bought the TEC superflex white (will be laying marble tiles) thinset but have now read that unmodified thinset with acrylic latex additive is a better product. Any opinions? Thanks
 
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Old 02-09-15, 02:46 PM
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Hopefully, Jaz will chime in, he has way more experience with marble than I do. I lay a ton of ceramic and porcelain tile but only the occasional marble threshold. The instructions on the back of the TEC white should tell you if it is compatible with marble or not.

I do have one question, that Jaz may allude to, and that is you chose a thinset that says "superflex" in the name. Subfloor requirements for Marble are different and more stringent than for regular tile. If you are working with a sub base that is marginal, or minimal at best, you may have issues down the road.
 
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Old 02-09-15, 07:18 PM
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Bindy,

Now that you've said marble tiles are planned, I'd like to confirm a few things. Marble requires a stiffer subfloor system as "Z" mentioned. So, can you confirm that the joists are 2x10" spaced 16" and span only 8'? Are they now in good shape, good as new?

Is the original diagonal plank subfloor in good shape and there's new ¾" ply subfloor that is well fastened and feels firm? The floor is very flat when checked with a long straight edge?

Tec Superflex is a premium modified mortar, you've got good stuff. If the floor fails it won't be because you scrimped on the thinset.

Jaz
 
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Old 02-12-15, 01:26 PM
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Okay Jaz I double checked the measurements and the floor joists are 2x8 not 2x10 all the other measurements were correct (16" OC, span 8 feet). Joists are solid and I put TONS of blocking in between the joists (blocking about every 12" to 18" between every joist). The floor does slope from the outside house wall to the bathroom door about 1 1/2 inches but it is a pretty flat slope ( I know that sounds ridiculous) There are two spots where the side wall to side wall is off level by about 1/4 inch I would like to level this out and had originally posted asking about using floor leveler but now I realize that the floor leveler will just all flow to the front of the bathroom and won't fix the unevenness side to side. So... I was wondering if I could just spread thick mortar on top of the backer board to get rid of the side to side unevenness? Would a 1/4 inch layer of the mortar hold on top of the backer board? Would I have to prime it with the primer that they use for the liquid floor leveler or something else? Could I allow it to dry and then tile over it?

If I get rid of the side to side unevenness and have a flat solid floor with a forward slope would you give a partial okay to marble. Keep in mind these are the 1 inch hexagon mosaic marble tiles so in my mind (correct me if I"m wrong) they can handle some sloping.

Thank you Jaz and czizzi for all of your assistance. Its been so helpful getting your feedback.
 
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Old 02-12-15, 06:16 PM
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I guess jacking up the house a little is out of the question.

Thinset to flatten a floor is not a good plan. You need a patching cement if you don't want to create a step at the entrance by using SLC.

2x8's in good condition that span 8' are stiff enough for natural stone tiles. The subfloor should be fine with the diagonal plank subfloor and ¾" ply you installed. The ¼" concrete backer will create a good base for the tiles. Find a Portland based patching cement made for the purpose.

Jaz
 
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Old 02-13-15, 12:53 PM
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Thank you Jaz!!!

Can I also use the patching cement under the bathtub to make that level? I haven't found a lot of good information on bathtub placement I watched a youtube video where someone used great stuff to level out the bathtub but I am not very happy about the prospect of gluing the tub down. I talked with people about using mortar and they told me that normally the tub is put down on wet mortar. I don't understand how everything will stay level when I place (tub is tipped on one end and then lowered into position) the tub on wet mortar. Can I just make sure the mortar is level, let it dry and then place the tub?

Perhaps these questions don't belong in the flooring group. Should I post a new thread in the plumber forum?

A huge gigantic thank you.
 
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Old 02-13-15, 04:12 PM
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First mention of installing a new tub. All previous was noting location of slope and using the tub as a reference. Give us some information on the tub - make and model and any other pertinent information. Will you be tiling the walls or using a surround? Updates to the plumbing?
 
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Old 02-13-15, 06:01 PM
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Hi czzizi,

Yeah, the whole bathroom is completely gutted. The tub is just a standard porcelain coated steel tub 5ftx3ft purchased at home depot and made by Bootz - the model is alohu. The plumbing is still in place but the wall where the plumbing is is completely gone and all the other walls are just studs. My plan is to level out the floor, put the tub in place, then work on the walls. Once I've finished framing the walls I'll use cement backer board in the tub area and then I'm hoping to tile the bath/shower area up to the ceiling with marble subway tiles. There is a small, high window there that I will have to tile around. The rest of the room will be dry walled and then wainscoting will be added (not tile).
 
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Old 02-13-15, 06:34 PM
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Bindy,

OK, that's a basic steel tub, 60" x 30" not 3 ft. wide. If that area is close to level, use shims to level it. These kind of tubs are not set into cement or plaster. Most like to use steel shims, not wood. Are there any styrofoam pads for the bottom?

Be sure to center the length cuz the space is probably 60.5". Fasten per directions.

What's the plan for waterproofing/vapor retarder for the walls?

Jaz
 
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Old 02-13-15, 07:05 PM
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Per your tub installation instructions, you are to level the floor first, set a ledger along the wall for the lip to sit on and install the tub so that the integrated sound deadening material is in contact with the floor. That said, you will not be installing in a bed of mud, but attempting to level the floor in advance and then work on installation.
 
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Old 02-13-15, 07:34 PM
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There is a Styrofoam pad attached to the bottom of the tub. The slope is about 1 inch in the 30" width of the tub. That might be a lot of shims. Could I use the floor patch to level it out a little let that dry and then use shims to finish the job? Are the metal shims attached somehow? Do they glue them in place?

For the walls I was going to use the ultrabacker cement floor then tape and thinset the joints and the screws. After that I was going to paint on two layers of some sort of liquid moisture barrier. I heard the lactrite brand was good.

Thank you
 
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Old 02-13-15, 07:41 PM
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I typed my last reply before I saw yours. I have the ledger in place and backerboard is down on the floor where the tub will go but there is a 1 inch downward slope from the outer wall to the edge of the tub. Could I use patching cement to level the floor under the tub area, let it dry, put the tub down and finish off any tub leveling with metal shims? I realize that with a 1 inch slope when I place my tiles it won't completely cover the gap created from leveling the tub but I was thinking about using quarter round or some sort of rounded tile to cover that gap. Not great, I know, but I can't jack up the house.
 
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Old 02-13-15, 08:21 PM
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I wish you'd decide to level the entire floor, would make everything easier. You'd end up with a step at the threshold, but that might be the best option. You'l get used to the step in a short time.

Otherwise, screw a piece of wood to dam the self leveling for the tub area, then use some kind of tile bullnose to help hide ti ledge.

You'l need to "dry-fit" the tub then probably reinstall the ledger.

Ultrabacker, is that PermaBase? Lactrite? Laticrete's Hydroban maybe?

Jaz
 
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Old 02-14-15, 05:22 AM
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According to the tub installation instructions, shims can be used to level. Shims are used under the sound leveling pad and not under the skirt. http://www.bootz.com/sites/default/f...or%20Web_1.pdf

Remove the cement backer board from under the tub area, it is not needed. Also remove the 3/4" sub-floor from under the tub area. If the 3/4" diagonal planks are in good shape, then set your tub on top of those. If those are in rough shape, remove to the joists, install 1/2" plywood and set the tub on that. This will help with the height adjustments on the out of level tub area. I am almost going to say, that if you take it down to the joists, then you can rip shims to go on top of the floor joists then re-install the 1/2" ply over an already adjusted floor level in that area. Which way do the floor joists go under the tub?
 
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Old 02-16-15, 01:01 PM
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Thanks to czizzi's suggestion of taking up the ultrabacker (yep it is permabase) from under the tub area I was able to justify the purchase of a new power tool (hammer drill with a tile remover bit). I will tell you that the ultrabacker and the superflex thinset are very good materials and quite difficult to remove but I am now back down to the diagonal subfloor. My plan is to fill in the ~1/4 inch diagonal gaps between the old subfloor planks (still in good shape) with great stuff and then use the concrete floor patch over the subfloor just in the low areas. Prior to putting the floor patch down I will prime the wooden subfloor and staple wire down. I will fan out the edge of the floor patch to make a nice transition.

Do people normally staple thinner wire (maybe even fabric mesh) on top of the wood subfloor where the concrete is fanned out so that the concrete can be fanned out thin to make a nice transition?

Now that I have removed the ultrabacker from the tub area it looks like I should just be able to cover the gap needed to level the tub with only the tile (the marble tile is pretty thick) and there will be no need for bullnose.

Thank you
 
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Old 03-04-15, 08:19 PM
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Hi

When installing cement backerboard on walls do you use liquid nails to help secure the board? I do plan on using backerboard screws too.

Thanks

Bindy
 
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Old 03-05-15, 05:51 AM
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No to the liquid nails. Install it first with 1 1/4" galvanized roofing nails. It will be easier to get it on the wall if you only have to hammer it up. Then return with your backerboard screws and secure it down. Make sure you use the screws for durock type backer boards which permabase is similar to. Don't use the ones designed for Hardibacker.

Then like the floor, mesh tape the corners and seams and smooth out with thinset mortar. Then paint it all with a couple coats of Redgard before your tile. Use a thinset on the walls that has a good grip to prevent sagging. I swear by Ultralite from Mapei - available at tile stores. LFT (Large Format Tile) is another good one for walls also by Mapei. When done, be sure to grout and put caulk along the tub and in the corners. Color matching caulk should be available where you pick up the grout.
 
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Old 03-10-15, 04:12 PM
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Wrap insulation around my porcelain coated steel tub?

I read in a book that it is a good idea to wrap un-backed insulation around the tub and then secure it with a string. What do you guys think about this idea?

Thanks
 
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Old 03-10-15, 05:38 PM
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nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn
 

Last edited by czizzi; 03-11-15 at 04:01 AM. Reason: Mis-read question from Poster
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Old 03-10-15, 06:35 PM
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Sure, wrapping insulation around a tub sounds good to me. A bit less noise, and the water should stay warmer longer.

Jaz
 
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Old 03-11-15, 04:05 AM
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Sorry, my brain engaged that backwards yesterday.

Your tub already is insulated and wrapped in foam. From what I gathered on other posts/threads the tub is already installed as you needed to level it several times. Insulation is often stuffed around jetted and soaking tubs where you plan on spending a lot of time and wish to minimize heat loss. So, it won't hurt, but may not see a great benefit with your particular tub.
 
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Old 03-23-15, 02:33 PM
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Okay - I've made a little more progress. Now I have 1/2 inch thick permabase up around the tub area and the rest of the bathroom has been dry walled with green board. I am wondering how I mud the joint between the permabase and the green board. Do I use the same tape that I would use for the permabase and then fill it in with thin set?

And then what do I do with the butt joints between the 2 cement boards. Do I tape and thinset that joint - or does that just ruin the flat tile surface. Instead of using thinset could I just use 6 inch waterproofing fiberglass mesh tape and paint the joint with hydro barrier?

Thank you!!

Bindy
 
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Old 03-23-15, 04:11 PM
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I usually finish the transition between cement backer and drywall with mesh tape and a drywall setting type compound. Setting type compound are a powder that you mix to order. They dry harder than regular joint compound and set by chemical reaction instead of evaporation. Set the mesh tape (drywall mesh tape), then spread on the setting compound and let the first coat set up. Then return and add additional coats to feather into the drywall.

Butt joists get treated the same as tapered joints in cement backer board. Use cement backer mesh, thinset and smooth as good as possible. Then you can brush on your waterproofing membrane (hydro barrier).
 
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Old 03-30-15, 04:28 PM
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leveling a bathroom ceiling for tub to ceiling tile

HI

I'm now finally thinking about tiling around the bathtub. I would like to run the tiles up to the ceiling but the ceiling has a couple of dips and bumps and bends. I installed new firecoded greenboard drywall over the lath that was already on the ceiling (didn't want to take down the lath because it was holding up spray fluff insulation) but the old wood wasn't straight. If I wasn't tiling to the ceiling the imperfections in the ceiling aren't really noticeable but I would really like to run the tiles to the ceiling.

I am wondering if I can fill the ceiling dips with a skim coat to make the ceiling straight.

I read I could apply a plaster or concrete bond to the drywall and then I thought maybe I could just fill the dips with drywall mud or maybe some kind of finish or skim coat plaster.

What do you think?

Thank you!

Bindy
 
 

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