Basement Tile advice
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Basement Tile advice
Hi all,
I am planning to install ceramic tiles on my basement floor. Currently it is carpeted and planning to rip off the entire carpet. Underneath there is a plywoood floor on top of concrete. The tiling technician suggests that we can use thinset along with a certain chemical right on top of the plywood and start tiling it right away. (Instead of using wire mesh). Is this a good idea? He suggests that it will save some material costs but I am concerned about the long term durability. Partly I am wondering if he says to cut down on his work.
Any insights will be greatly appreciated!
thank you.
arvind.
I am planning to install ceramic tiles on my basement floor. Currently it is carpeted and planning to rip off the entire carpet. Underneath there is a plywoood floor on top of concrete. The tiling technician suggests that we can use thinset along with a certain chemical right on top of the plywood and start tiling it right away. (Instead of using wire mesh). Is this a good idea? He suggests that it will save some material costs but I am concerned about the long term durability. Partly I am wondering if he says to cut down on his work.
Any insights will be greatly appreciated!
thank you.
arvind.
#2
Your entire plan is not an approved method and I can guarantee it'll fail, just don't know if it'll be 6 months or 6 years.
Plywood over concrete, whether direct to concrete or over sleepers is not gonna work long term, especially with tiles. You may be able to get away with it with carpeting though, if it's a very dry area of town.
Just for fun though, can you tell us more about this "chemical" the tile guy proposed to apply over the ply?
Oh "wire mesh". Funny you should ask........... That's called a "Jersey Mud Job" or "scratch coat", and has never passed when tested by the TCNA (Tile Council of North America) or it's Canadian cousin association. It's a bad way to set tiles, but it can work good enough 70-80% of the time.
Jaz
Plywood over concrete, whether direct to concrete or over sleepers is not gonna work long term, especially with tiles. You may be able to get away with it with carpeting though, if it's a very dry area of town.
Just for fun though, can you tell us more about this "chemical" the tile guy proposed to apply over the ply?
Oh "wire mesh". Funny you should ask........... That's called a "Jersey Mud Job" or "scratch coat", and has never passed when tested by the TCNA (Tile Council of North America) or it's Canadian cousin association. It's a bad way to set tiles, but it can work good enough 70-80% of the time.
Jaz
#3
Welcome to the forums! I knew Jaz had already answered, but I read your post anyway with some amusement. I hate it when people who really don't know what they are doing, give free advice to those who admit they don't and want to do it right.
I agree. Rip it all up, determine the condition of the concrete, make necessary repairs/floats and install your tile. Follow Jaz' advice and you won't go wrong.
I agree. Rip it all up, determine the condition of the concrete, make necessary repairs/floats and install your tile. Follow Jaz' advice and you won't go wrong.
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thanks for the responses guys. I am glad I posted it here.
It is carpeted currently and this is in NJ. Almost all the neighbors I know got their basement flooded in the past for one reason or another. I have been lucky so far and I want to replace the carpet with the tiles before the disaster strikes.
I am not sure what chemical it is but I believe it is some kind of bond which makes the thinset harder (or whatever). One another thing he was contemplating was to install the tiles on top of the existing carpet.
Anyway, removing the plywood is going to be non-starter I think. I have to talk to him.
So the consensus is that I remove the plywood, fix the floor and then lay the tiles on top of it, correct?
It is carpeted currently and this is in NJ. Almost all the neighbors I know got their basement flooded in the past for one reason or another. I have been lucky so far and I want to replace the carpet with the tiles before the disaster strikes.
I am not sure what chemical it is but I believe it is some kind of bond which makes the thinset harder (or whatever). One another thing he was contemplating was to install the tiles on top of the existing carpet.
Anyway, removing the plywood is going to be non-starter I think. I have to talk to him.
So the consensus is that I remove the plywood, fix the floor and then lay the tiles on top of it, correct?
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Can someone help me understand why we cannot install (ceramic) tile on plywood in the basement? If I remember correct the tiles in the bathroom are laid on top of the plywood with the wire-mesh thingy. So I thought that's the normal thing to do.
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got the answer for the previous question by doing some browsing. thanks.
Guess the other option people recommend is to lay a cement backer board. Is this a safe option?
Guess the other option people recommend is to lay a cement backer board. Is this a safe option?
#7
contemplating was to install the tiles on top of the existing carpet
The plywood, if it has seen even a small amount of moisture will rot, and I am sure you have had some moisture. You will be surprised when you pull up the plywood. It will be black on the underside and will possibly have mold growing. Again, another reason to get rid of it. Even doing the mud job, leaving the plywood exposed is why it is not an approved method. If the bathroom should ever be remodeled, you will find the same thing.
#8
One another (other) thing he was contemplating was to install the tiles on top of the existing carpet.
Almost all the neighbors I know got their basement flooded in the past for one reason or another. I have been lucky so far and I want to replace the carpet with the tiles before the disaster strikes.
So the consensus is that I remove the plywood, fix the floor and then lay the tiles on top of it, correct?
If I remember correct the tiles in the bathroom are laid on top of the plywood with the wire-mesh thingy. So I thought that's the normal thing to do.
Guess the other option people recommend is to lay a cement backer board. Is this a safe option?
Don't you love this internet?
Jaz
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Here is what it talks about using a cement board on a plywood before laying the tiles:
Installing Tile Over a Wood Subfloor | Today's Homeowner
My guy did infact asked about installing tiles over the carpet. I am not kidding. That is the first instance I got my suspicion that this guy may not know what he is talking about and decided to do my own research.
Installing Tile Over a Wood Subfloor | Today's Homeowner
My guy did infact asked about installing tiles over the carpet. I am not kidding. That is the first instance I got my suspicion that this guy may not know what he is talking about and decided to do my own research.
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Here is another:
How to Level a Subfloor Before Laying Tile - One Project Closer
One of the options they are talking about is to use a plywood subfloor to even out the concrete floor.
How to Level a Subfloor Before Laying Tile - One Project Closer
One of the options they are talking about is to use a plywood subfloor to even out the concrete floor.
#11
Maybe you didn't notice that the article talks about installing concrete backer board over a wood subfloor. You do not have a wood subfloor, it's concrete, it's your basement.
Why was this person in your house in the first place? You need to find real tilesetters who are qualified and in many states are licensed. (legal) If you try to find someone to do the work on the side cheap, you may find more like this. You'd be better off trying it yourself, maybe.
I earlier asked........
Jaz
Originally Posted by aravindk
My guy did infact asked about installing tiles over the carpet. I am not kidding. That is the first instance I got my suspicion that this guy may not know what he is talking about and decided to do my own research.
I earlier asked........
Where is the bathroom? I'm betting it's upstairs....no?
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@Jaz, yes. the bathroom is upstairs. I understand it now.
Just couple more clarifications if you dont mind. The links I forwarded does support laying tiles on top of cement backerboard.
Installing Tile Over a Wood Subfloor | Today's Homeowner
In the above link for example, towards the end of the article it says that the subfloor under the tiles should be at least 5/8" plywood with 1/2" backerboard. As long as I have these two in place, it should be fine, right?
So I guess I am ok with leaving the plywood and then install 1/2" cement board on top of the plywood, install tiles tiles using thin-set. Thoughts?
Just couple more clarifications if you dont mind. The links I forwarded does support laying tiles on top of cement backerboard.
Installing Tile Over a Wood Subfloor | Today's Homeowner
In the above link for example, towards the end of the article it says that the subfloor under the tiles should be at least 5/8" plywood with 1/2" backerboard. As long as I have these two in place, it should be fine, right?
So I guess I am ok with leaving the plywood and then install 1/2" cement board on top of the plywood, install tiles tiles using thin-set. Thoughts?
#14
@Jaz, yes. the bathroom is upstairs. I understand it now.
Originally Posted by aravindk
In the above link for example, towards the end of the article it says that the subfloor under the tiles should be at least 5/8" plywood with 1/2" backerboard. As long as I have these two in place, it should be fine, right?
So I guess I am ok with leaving the plywood and then install 1/2" cement board on top of the plywood, install tiles tiles using thin-set. Thoughts?
So I guess I am ok with leaving the plywood and then install 1/2" cement board on top of the plywood, install tiles tiles using thin-set. Thoughts?
Jaz
#15
Aravindk, you are completely missing the point, and it has been explained multiple times. There is a difference between a structurally sound floor system (Joists spaced and spanned correctly) with plywood on top being used as a base for cement board and tile, and what you currently have in your basement. You have some boards on the ground with ply on top. Not the same animal. The gap between the boards and concrete will trap moisture, and in turn, rot the plywood from below over time -your floor will fail. Again, we are saying that if you want to tile, REMOVE ALL WOOD PRODUCTS from the basement and tile DIRECTLY ON THE CONCRETE. That is proper procedure.
I also think that you are confusing yourself with all that you are reading on the internet and hearing from the fake contractor. It is easy to go astray if you don't understand what you are reading/hearing. The easiest way to help is to tell you that you don't have a subfloor, you have a concrete slab. A perfect base to which to add tile. It is really simpler that you are making it out to be. I am going to go search for a recent thread from a person who bought a house with the sleeper system you have and show you pictures to help. It may take me a minute, but I will post back.
Here is what will happen to your sleeper system over time. http://www.doityourself.com/forum/fr...er-system.html
I also think that you are confusing yourself with all that you are reading on the internet and hearing from the fake contractor. It is easy to go astray if you don't understand what you are reading/hearing. The easiest way to help is to tell you that you don't have a subfloor, you have a concrete slab. A perfect base to which to add tile. It is really simpler that you are making it out to be. I am going to go search for a recent thread from a person who bought a house with the sleeper system you have and show you pictures to help. It may take me a minute, but I will post back.
Here is what will happen to your sleeper system over time. http://www.doityourself.com/forum/fr...er-system.html
#16
I will chime in here only as another opinion. You absolutely cannot tile on a wood over concrete subfloor. The reasons have been pointed out multiple times. It would only take one flood to completely ruin the plywood, and your tile work, which is what you are trying to avoid to begin with.
As for you tile guy, I would send him a bill for wasting your time. If he even hinted at a possibility of tiling over carpet, he has not got any clue at all what he is doing. Also, adding a "chemical" to make the thinset harder would have the opposite effect that you desire in that it would crack easier with movement.
Remove the carpet and sublfoor completely. Clean the concrete and fill any low spots with thinset, then tile on the concrete.
As for you tile guy, I would send him a bill for wasting your time. If he even hinted at a possibility of tiling over carpet, he has not got any clue at all what he is doing. Also, adding a "chemical" to make the thinset harder would have the opposite effect that you desire in that it would crack easier with movement.
Remove the carpet and sublfoor completely. Clean the concrete and fill any low spots with thinset, then tile on the concrete.
#17
It was never definitely established whether the OP has a sleeper system or if the ply if fastened direct to the slab. However by several of the statements, I think the ply is fastened to the slab. Of course both are not acceptable, especially when below grade.
Rip it all out. If the floor is flat, you can probably tile it. But there's a bunch of other things to check first.
Jaz
Rip it all out. If the floor is flat, you can probably tile it. But there's a bunch of other things to check first.
Jaz
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The plywoods are installed on a sleeper system in my case. We decided to remove the plywood, remove the sleeper system and install the tiles directly on concrete as suggested. Thank you all those who chimed in.
Best
Best
#19
aravindk said:
Ok good, we like it when people do things the right way.
But, there's more to doing the job right than just getting to the slab. Ask more Q's if you wanna.
Jaz
The plywoods are installed on a sleeper system in my case. We decided to remove the plywood, remove the sleeper system and install the tiles directly on concrete as suggested. Thank you all those who chimed in.
But, there's more to doing the job right than just getting to the slab. Ask more Q's if you wanna.
Jaz