New welder


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Old 01-21-16, 08:02 PM
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New welder

I received my new welding machine today (Hobart LX AC/DC stick). One of the common negatives in all the reviews is that the leads are too short, only 10 feet. I noticed that they are #4 and this machine outputs 160 amperes DC and 225 amperes AC. When I replace the leads, probably with a 15-20 foot work lead and a 20 foot stinger, should I upsize to #2? I already have some #4 for my riding lawnmower project and I might have as much as 15 feet more than I need which, if I stick with #4 would mean less that I would have to buy.

Second question, the plug is different, a NEMA 6-50 P whereas my receptacle is a NEMA 10-50 R. The cord is only 6 feet long. Should I make up a longer input cord (my old welder has about a 15-20 foot cord) with a 10-50 plug or should I change my receptacle? The manual says I can use up to 87 feet of #12 for the input although I think I would use #10. Right now I also use the 10-50 receptacle to power a 5.6 kW electric space heater via an extension cord with mismatched plug/receptacle.

Third question. Should I attempt to sell my old (about 50 years) Sears machine on Craig's List? I saw an almost identical machine there the other day for $100. I say almost because the picture looked brand new and mine is really dirty and rusty. It does work, however. I think I would be ashamed to ask anymore than $50.

Fourth question. On the old Sears machine I had added an input contactor (40 ampere as I recall, may have been 50 ampere) and a foot switch. I have become very comfortable in using that foot switch to shut off the transformer when the rod sticks tight or just to remove power from the stinger when not actively welding. Should I transfer the contactor and foot switch to the new machine or install a new contactor and foot switch?

Last question. If I don't try to sell it or am not successful, should I hold on to it for a few months and try again or should I cannibalize it for the scrap value? I think it has copper windings on the transformer.
 
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Old 01-22-16, 12:21 AM
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No one said a peep here. :Peeping On U2:

Congrats on the new purchase.

At that distance #4 welding cable is fine.
I'd take the deadman switch and contactor out. Most people wouldn't find it useful.
The old welders had copper windings. I'll bet the new ones are aluminum.
 
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Old 01-22-16, 02:38 AM
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Looking at various documents from a Google search I get answers from #4 to 1/0 for the welding leads. One article mentioned to NOT use duty cycle when calculating the size but in the Lincoln Welding document it specifically stated different sizes for different duty cycles. This new machine, like the old one, has a 20% duty cycle at maximum output but (perhaps unlike the older machine) has a duty cycle of 60% at the normal welding currents. The Lincoln blurb recommended #3 conductors.

It has been many years since I had the cover off of the old welder but as I recall it does have copper windings. On the other hand, the new machine is physically smaller than the old one but I think significantly heavier. I don't off hand know the weight of the old Sears unit but the Hobart is listed as weighing 104 pounds and I don't think the Sears welder comes anywhere near that. Of course the Hobart also has the rectifier unit which the Sears doesn't.

Here's what I am thinking right now. Open up the Sears machine and remove the input cable, transfer it to the Hobart. That solves the short input cable and non-compatible plug issue. Install some spare Tweco connectors I have on the ends of the Hobart leads and then use the welding leads from the Sears, I'm pretty sure they are #2 conductors. I can always place the ad on CL and see what kind of response I get and then decide if I want to sell it or tear it down for scrap. Although the FIRST thing I need to do is get it out of the box. Too heavy and no way to get a good grip on it to lift it out of the box so I might have to cut the box off.
 
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Old 01-24-16, 01:22 AM
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I decided to ignore all the wonderful ideas presented.

When I bought the welder I also bought a Chinese knock-off of a Bernard-style electrode holder. [ATTACH=CONFIG]62012[/ATTACH] (Image courtesy of Ebay.)

(If I had known it was Chinese I wouldn't have bought it.) Tonight I attempted to connect it to the #4 conductor on the welder and the wire was way too small.

So, I have ordered 50 feet of #2 lead, a pair of plugs/sockets, a 50 ampere contactor (for the primary) a small twist-lock panel receptacle and plug for a foot switch to control the contactor and 35 feet of 10/3 SOOW for power input cable. I won't use all of the 10/3, probably only 15 feet and use the other 20 feet on my electric garage heater.

I could have bought a 6-50 receptacle but the price was outrageous and I need the 10-50 I already have for other purposes so I bought a replacement 10-50 plug for about the same cost as the 6-50 receptacle. It's going to take a week or so to get everything so I doubt I will try the machine until then.

I am also going to pick up a low-cost Harbor Freight mover's dolly and adapt it to the welding machine to make it much more portable. I'll set it up to have cable racks as well as a rack to hold the electrode cases I got from HF as well.

I bought the electrode holder because I have been using a Martin-Wells "Stubby" for some thirty years (or more) with my Sears machine and back when I did welding as part of my real job I used a Bernard. I just prefer this style over the more common spring clamp holders.

Now I have to sell the old Sears machine, to help pay for all this new equipment.
 
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Old 01-24-16, 04:12 PM
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Copper scrap is not a valuable as a few years ago. I would sell it on craigslist, and if it doesn't sell, keep listing it till it does. It will go sooner or later.
 
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Old 01-24-16, 08:03 PM
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Yep, definitely going to try to sell it as a welder and not scrap. There have been two similar machines on CL in the last week, one looks almost new but is missing the stinger lead and has no wheels. The other was as rusty as mine but still no wheels. Amazingly, the old rusty one was asking $150 and the new-looking one $100. For about an hour of work I can add a plywood tray on top and I can also toss in a chipping hammer and spare electrode holder. Plus, in addition to the foot switch I added Tweco connectors to the machine and leads so adding extension leads is very easy.
 
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Old 01-25-16, 04:45 AM
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I'm not good enough with electrical to comment on sizing of leads, but i'll offer a thought about the old one. you might go to ebay and search for your machine using the "completed transaction" feature. that will give the final sales price of machines like yours- literally what the market price is.

if you don't sell, consider giving it to a welding student, or someone who will get good use from it. you might be doing a world of good for somebody.
 
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Old 01-30-16, 07:44 AM
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Update, I have received most of the additional supplies, the new input cable (about 15 feet) has the new 10-50 plug installed and a cable gland ready to install in the welder. The rest of the 10/3 type SOOW cable has the L6-30 plug and connector for my heater installed. Still need to change the plug on the heater and install the L6-30 receptacle.

I installed the Bernard-style rod holder on the end of the #2 conductor and now have to decide where to cut that conductor to make both electrode and work conductors. I need to pick up the welding lead plugs and welder sockets from the mailbox, I'll do that when I go to the post office to pick up my steam engine that requires a signature.

I also ordered the control cable and foot switch a couple of hours ago. Now I have to open the welder and install the new power inlet cord, the contactor, the contactor control receptacle and the welding lead sockets which I will do later today or maybe on Sunday.

I'll first try it out on my lawnmower project and then I think I will make a steel rack on casters for it rather than modifying the Harbor Freight mover's dolly. Gonna need to buy some casters.

I also think I will go ahead and build the plywood tray for the old welder as well as clean and paint it a bit so it doesn't look so ratty, might help in selling it.
 
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Old 02-04-16, 07:08 AM
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welder

Congrats on your new machine. About a year ago I sold my OLD AC only machine that I had owned for 20+ years (and I bought it used). I got a used Lincoln Ac/DC machine. I did the same thing you did with the leads- added quick connects and longer #2 leads. I always had an AC/DC machine available at work, and always wanted one at home. When I retired, I decided to treat myself. I hope you enjoy
yours as much as I like mine! Steve
 
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Old 02-04-16, 07:20 AM
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Thanks, Steve. I got it all back together a couple of days ago except for putting the cover back. I want to get a couple of black oxide, Allen, button head screws to replace the shiny round head screws holding the contactor in place as well as the contactor control receptacle. Meant to go to the old time hardware store for the last three evenings but... I go to the doctor this afternoon and will stop on my way home.
 
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Old 02-11-16, 03:32 AM
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I got the thing all back together last Saturday or Sunday but I haven't yet lugged it out to the garage to test. If anyone is interested I'll see about taking a couple of pictures and posting them. It looks pretty good in my opinion.
 
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Old 02-13-16, 01:10 PM
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Sure, I'm always interested in welder pics!

Steve
 
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Old 02-18-16, 02:05 PM
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No pictures yet but I did get it out to the garage yesterday. I ran a couple of inches of bead and they looked good. Striking the arc with DC is MUCH easier than my old AC machine.

I did find out that the Chinese "Bernard-style" electrode holder won't let the stub fall out and requires it to be pulled out so I went ahead and installed the Martin Wells "stubby" holder from the old machine.
 
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Old 02-23-16, 04:24 AM
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rod holder

I've used both, and for general use I find the "bernard" type holder too much trouble. For certain jobs it's great, like when you have to bend the rod to reach into a tight spot and you don't want it to turn. But for everyday use I like the plain old spring type / squeeze release holder. And if you ever want to let go of the rod in a hurry, you appreciate it! Steve
 
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Old 02-23-16, 05:36 AM
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A genuine Bernard, like the Martin Wells "Stubby", uses a hardened screw to hold the rod against an anvil making an exceptionally strong connection, I guess this is why they are used for higher amperage. The Chinese knock-off uses the screw pressure against a lever holding the rod in place. In the real deal holders it only takes a quarter turn to set or release the rod but with the Chinese version I couldn't get the stub to fall out even after several turns.

Of course it is all about what a person is used to and as I stated earlier, I am used to the Stubby. Using a spring-grip holder is also getting harder for me as I lose strength in my hand so that is another reason I don't care for the spring grip style. As for releasing the rod fast...that's one of the reasons for the contactor on the primary side and the foot switch. If the rod "freezes" I simply lift my foot and the power is cut.
 
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Old 02-29-16, 03:08 AM
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Let's see if this works.

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To the right of the power switch are two five ampere, pushbutton style circuit breakers for the primary power contactor. The foot switch for the contactor is on top and the control cable plugs in at the lower right. To the left of the amperage control you can see the disconnect jacks I added for the welding leads. I may at some later date add a panel switch to operate the contactor without the foot switch.

Rather than modifying a cheap Harbor Freight furniture dolly I bought a set of (surplus) high quality casters. I was going to make a stand out of angle steel but in the interim I found a suitably sized piece of Melamine covered particle board in my scrap along with enough #10x1 inch sheet-metal screws to fasten the casters. Thinking more about it, I don't know that I want to build the steel cart now as it would be top heavy if I made it eighteen inches high. I'll use this for a while and then think some more.
 
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Old 03-01-16, 06:20 PM
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I LOVE my new welder. I've only burnt about a half dozen rods but it is SO nice. The arc practically starts itself and the welds are as smooth as can be expected from an amateur like me. I just wish I had bought it ten years ago.

The only thing nicer would have been the set-up I saw about thirty years ago in the company surplus store; 300 amp AC/DC with high frequency, TIG and MIG on a cart that held the gas bottle and had a self-contained water cooling system. It was only $600 with my employee discount. Alas, I had no place to even store it, let alone actually use it.
 
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Old 03-02-16, 02:34 AM
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There is no substitute for the right equipment! I'm only an expert when it comes to painting yet I'd be hard put to do a decent job with inferior tools. I'm also an amateur welder although I think the biggest thing that improved my welding skills was realizing that the photo gray glasses that I've worn for the last 40+ yrs worked against me when I dropped the hood. Not sure why it took me so long to realize that my glasses would turn dark also once I struck a bead
 
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Old 03-11-16, 01:27 PM
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welder

Nice rig. I have my Lincoln on a rolling platform about 6" high. Just got finished doing a repair job for a friend, and I forgot how much I LOVE 7018 rods.

Steve
 
 

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