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Pump cycling, or Water logged and other Well Info.


waterwelldude's Avatar
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10-26-08, 09:02 PM   #1 (permalink)  
Pump cycling, or Water logged and other Well Info.

If you have any safety tips, or any other information that you think someone could benefit from. Please post it here. Just general info only.


Thanks;...Travis


Last edited by waterwelldude; 04-29-09 at 06:54 AM.
 
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10-27-08, 03:44 AM   #2 (permalink)  
Pump cycling, or Water logged and other Well Info.

<HR style="COLOR: rgb(131,127,119)" SIZE=1><!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->Before Working Anything Electrical, Turn OFF the Power!!



A water logged tank

(when the pump turns on and off real fast)


Instructions to pressurize a Galvanized steel pressure tank:


1. Turn the power OFF to the well pump.
2. Open the drain at the bottom of the tank until the pressure on the gauge is down to 0-psi...
3. Take the gauge out (that breaks the vacuum on the tank)...
4. Empty all water from the tank....
5. Apply thread sealant to the threads on the gauge, then replace it.
6. Close the faucet...
7. Turn the power back on...
This will start to refill the tank with some water, but will properly give the tank the air charge/cushion needed for proper operation.


Instructions to pressurize a water tank that has a bladder in it,(newer style)


1. Turn the power to the well pump OFF.
1a. Turn off main water valve.
2. Completely drain the pressure tank.
3. Check the amount of air in the tank using the air valve on top of the tank
4. Using a small compressor, adjust the pressure to read 2-3 psi under the cut-in pressure of your pump. For example, if you have a 30/50 pressure switch,provided nobody has re-adjusted the switch, you air pressure in the tank should be set at 27/28 psi.
If the tank is out of air and will not hold air, then the bladder/diaphragm is bad and the tank needs to be replaced.
5. Turn power back on allowing the tank to refill.
6. Turn main water valve to house back on.

That little bit of time it takes to do this will save your pump and save money on the electric bill.
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Last edited by waterwelldude; 10-27-08 at 05:13 PM.
 
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10-27-08, 07:33 AM   #3 (permalink)  
The Importance of a Good Gage.

I think one of the most important things you can do for your water system is to keep a working pressure gauge on the system.
It is often your first indication that something is wrong in the system. It will also tell you the exact pressures the system is operating at, so that you can set the proper precharge in your pressure tank.
As with anything else, you can buy gauges that are cheap, but spending a few extra dollars for a GOOD gauge is well worth the money.
Just my two cents.
Ron


Last edited by waterwelldude; 10-27-08 at 05:18 PM.
 
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10-27-08, 06:44 PM   #4 (permalink)  
Water Well links and info.

Here is a list of links:
Well-x-trol tanks
http://www.freshwatersystems.com%2Fp...rolinstall.pdf

Replacing a Pressure Tank on a residential system:
http://www.hammerzone.com/archives/p...nk/replace.htm

Daniel Friedman has a wonderful site that explains just about everything.
http://www.inspect-ny.com/plumbing/PumpsWells.htm

4 inch Submersible Well Pumps (2 and 3 wire) Manual
http://www.waterace.com/pdf/4inchSubManual.pdf

R7L R10L R15L R20L and R25L Lawn Sprinkler Pumps Manual
http://www.waterace.com/pdf/R7L%20R1...s%20Manual.pdf

Brady Products How to make a shallow well by washing:
http://www.campbellmfg.com/brady/doc...stallation.pdf

An Inexpensive, Do-It-Yourself Water Well (driving)
http://www.fdungan.com/well.htm
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11-02-08, 10:54 AM   #5 (permalink)  
Preventative Maintenance

1. Keeping the grass down around the well. That will keep ant's and other pest out of the pressure switch, and any controls,that may be around the well.


2. If you live in the south. Only rap the pipes if it's going to be freezing. If they insulated in the summer, the cold water in the pipes will cause them to rust under the insulation. The pipes need to be able to breath.


3. Placing a small piece of a flea collar in the control box, will keep all bug's and anything else that can cause problems out of the box. It will have to be changed every few months. It stops working in about 2 to 2.5 months.

 
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11-11-08, 03:14 PM   #6 (permalink)  
How Your Well Pump Works.

The first and perhaps most important component in any water system is the pump. There are many different kinds of pumps out there but the most common types found in residential water systems are Jet pumps and Submersible pumps.

Jet Pumps - Single Drop
If your well is less than about 25 feet deep, chances are you have this type of pump. Jet pumps work on a relatively simple principle similar to how you would drink from a straw. An electric motor drives an impeller which draws air from just above the water in the intake pipe creating a vacuum. Atmospheric pressure pushes the water upward and into the pump. The water first moves through a narrow orifice or jet which constricts the flow of water increasing the speed at which it moves, similar to holding your thumb over the end of a garden hose. Directly behind the jet is a venturi tube which gradually increases in diameter slowing the water's speed while at the same time increasing pressure needed to push the water into your plumbing.
Because the jet pump requires water to pull new water from your well, it must be primed. Priming your pump simply involves pouring water down inside the pump body which can then be used to create the vacuum necessary to pull the water from the well. Typically when your system is installed, your contractor will place a special 1-way check valve on the intake pipe leading to the jet. This keeps water from running back down into the well and helps to keep your jet pump primed. However if your water system is shut off for a long period of time and your jet pump is not used, the water inside the pump body may evaporate requiring the pump to be re-primed.

Jet Pumps - Deep Well
Even if your well is greater than 75 feet deep, you can still use a jet pump to draw water from it. In this case, instead of the jet assembly being mounted directly to the motor, it is connected to the impeller by a pipe that submerges it down inside the well. A second pipe comes from the output side of the jet back into the pump. This causes water to be forced from the pump down inside the jet and then back up through the pump, pulling even more water from the well along with it.

Submersible Pumps
By far the most common type of pump is the submersible. With a submersible pump, the entire pump assembly including the electric motor which is watertight is lowered down into the well at a certain depth determined by the total depth of your well. Special waterproof cabling is connected to the electric motor providing a kind of umbilical that supplies power to the pump.
A submersible pump works on a different principle than the jet pump. Rather than using a vacuum to suck the water up from the well, the pump pushes the water up into the plumbing using a series of impellers. The impellers ride on top of each other separated by discs called diffusers and are connected to a central shaft which is driven by the electric motor. As water flows through each impeller it's speed is increased and so is the pressure, allowing the pump to push the water up through the well and into your plumbing system.
Submersible pumps tend to be quite a bit more efficient and produce more water while requiring a smaller size motor. The only drawback to these types of motors is that when they fail, they must be pulled from the well. Depending on the depth of the well and the size of the motor, this may require the use of a hydraulic pump hoist and several hours of labor. For the most part though, submersible pumps are among the most reliable pumps available and often perform for 20 to 25 years without requiring maintenance.
There are 2 ways a submersible pump can be connected to your home. The most common way is to connect a pipe to the discharge end of the pump which extends vertically out of the top of the well and into your plumbing system. This method is less than ideal because of the potential for bacteria or other contaminants entering your well through the areas around the pipe.
The second way is to install a pitless adapter. A pitless adapter is a device that mates to the outside casing of the well. It allows the discharge end of the submersible pump to be routed horizontally underground and out into your plumbing rather than vertically out of the top of the well. The connection between the pitless adapter and your plumbing is sealed by a set of watertight o-rings which greatly decreases the chance of bacterial or other contamination.


Last edited by waterwelldude; 08-29-09 at 11:20 AM.
 
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12-04-08, 06:30 PM   #7 (permalink)  
Pump Cycle

To see this, it may take an extra person to open and close the tap while someone watches the gauge and pump.

Here is how things are supposed to work:

1. The system is at rest. The pump is off. The pressure is at the highest value, 50 or 60 is that value depending on what the pressure switch is set for. For purposes of explanation, we will assume that the switch is set to 40/60, so the gauge reads 60 at this point.
2. A tap is opened. Water begins to exit the tank. Pressure begins to go down. You can see the pressure go down by watching the pressure gauge.
3. The pressure passes the midway point. The gauge reads 50.
4. The pressure is now down to 40. The pressure switch clicks and turns the pump on.
5. Now pressure is dependent on the pump. The tank does nothing since it is receiving and sending water at the same time. Depending on how much water is exiting the tank, the pump may start catching up and the pressure will rise such as if a kitchen tap was open, or it may decrease if a large amount is leaving, like a shower or washing machine is being used. Whatever happens though, it is only the pump that supplies any pressure.
6. Tap is turned off. Pump keeps running. Pressure rises.
7. The pressure passes the midway point. The gauge reads 50.
8. Pressure is at 60 and the pressure switch clicks again, turning the pump off. It should not turn on again unless a tap is opened and the pressure drops to 40.
9. The system is at rest. The pump is off. The pressure is at the highest value, 50 or 60 is that value depending on what the pressure switch is set for.

And the cycle repeats.

 
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12-10-08, 11:05 PM   #8 (permalink)  
How to Chlorinate a Well (submersible)

Step 1
Store a supply of water ahead of time, enough for the next day.

Step 2
Disconnect any filters, water softeners or purifiers from the water system. Chlorination may harm your equipment.

Step 3
Find the depth and width of your well for proper chlorination on the chart located at the Water Systems Council website. For example, a 100' well with a 5" width would require one quart of 5.25% household bleach. If you do not know the depth of your well, contact your well driller.

Step 4
Remove the 1/2 plug in the well seal, pouring the bleach directly into the well. Do not remove the bolts on the well seal.

Step 5
Connect a garden hose to an outdoor spigot and thoroughly rinse out the inside of the well.

Step 6
Turn on all outdoor faucets and let the water run on the ground. Then turn on every faucet indoors and let the water run until you can smell the strong odor of chlorine from each one. Shut the faucets off.

Step 7
Allow the chlorinated water to sit in your system for 12 to 24 hours. It will take that long for the chlorine to do its job effectively.


Last edited by waterwelldude; 12-17-08 at 10:46 PM.
 
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02-16-09, 06:20 PM   #9 (permalink)  
NO WATER!!! What Shall I do?!!

It happens to everybody, even people on city water. One day you wake up, stumble out to the kitchen, open the tap for some coffee water and all that happens is plenty of nothing. Or a bad storm is predicted, your whole town is a disaster area, or a tree is uprooted and so is the pipe to your house.

Chinese fire drill time.

First, if a storm is predicted, then fill up bottles and your bathtub with water. You may have some bottled water in the house, but go ahead and get ready anyway.

Second, you lose water or don't have water. Don't panic. You can get by using much less water than you think you need.

Third, take stock of what you have. You may have a river, lake, pond or stream nearby. You will need that water source. Do you have buckets? Do you have gas in the car to transport buckets?

Fourth, realize that most people own more clothes than they use. If you are like most people, you probably have two full weeks of clothes to wear in your closet. That is two weeks you can wear clean clothes without using any water to wash them and often, clothes can be worn more than one day. You may not LIKE those clothes, but hey, it's emergency time, so wear them anyway.

Fifth, surface water or bathtub water will flush the toilet. Use the toilet, pour a bucket of water in the bowl and down it goes. TAKE IT EASY with the toilet! Do what dey do in de Islands, mon, where water is scarce. In the Islands, there is always a little sign in the bathrooms "If it's yellow, then let it mellow. But if it's brown, flush it down." If you are on city sewer, they may be telling you not to do this, so listen to the radio/TV for warnings.

Sixth, if you were able to bottle some water, drink that before you drink the bottled water from the store. The companies have ways to make water last years in a bottle, yours will only last a few days.

If things go longer than two weeks, take your clothes to town and use the laundromat.

I think that is about it. Sooner or later the well man will come, you will figure out what is wrong and fix it or the city will fix the water main and put you on a boiled water alert, in which case, keep doing what is in this post and you will be fine.


Last edited by Vey; 02-16-09 at 06:41 PM.
 
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03-12-09, 06:57 PM   #10 (permalink)  
Posted By: Pumpman I think one of the most important things you can do for your water system is to keep a working pressure gauge on the system.
It is often your first indication that something is wrong in the system. It will also tell you the exact pressures the system is operating at, so that you can set the proper precharge in your pressure tank.
As with anything else, you can buy gauges that are cheap, but spending a few extra dollars for a GOOD gauge is well worth the money.
Just my two cents.
Ron
Probably the best troubleshooting advice that you will ever receive. I would add the installation of an isolation valve between the guage and your source so that the guage will always work properly when needed (minerals and/or normal use will often compromise a guage's effectiveness).

 
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03-19-09, 06:50 PM   #11 (permalink)  
Steps to maintain your water well:

  • <LI class=bq><LI class=bq>Keep hazardous chemicals, such as paint, fertilizer, pesticides, and motor oil far away from your well, and maintain a "clean" zone of at least 50 feet (15.24 meters) between your well and any kennels or livestock operations. Also, always maintain proper separation between your well and buildings, waste systems, or chemical storage areas. Your professional water well contractor is familiar with the applicable local codes. <LI class=bq><LI class=bq>Periodically check the well cover or well cap on top of the casing (well) to ensure it is in good repair and securely attached. Its seal should keep out insects and rodents. <LI class=bq><LI class=bq>Keep your well records in a safe place. These include the construction report, and annual water well system maintenance and water testing results.
  • Get your water tested anytime there is a change in taste, odor or appearance, or anytime the system is serviced.

 
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03-30-09, 09:17 PM   #12 (permalink)  
[TESTING SUBMERSIBLE PUMP MOTORS

The first thing you need to check when you are having problems with your submersible water well pump, is the motor condition.
We will need to use an ohm meter to test resistance in the windings. The first test we will do is whether the motor is grounded.
Set your ohm meter to Rx100k or the highest reading available to you. Place the leads together and zero the meter reading. The wires from your pump control box going to the well, should be disconnected. You will have a Red, Yellow, Black, and a Green ground wire.
Connect one of your meter leads to the green ground wire. Using the other meter lead, connect to each of the other 3 wires, one at a time, looking for any reading. If you get any reading, you have a ground in the windings of the motor. If you do this test and no reading appears, you do not have a ground condition to correct.
Testing the windings of your motor will tell us if the motor has a problem in the main or start windings. Set your meter to Rx1 and zero out the reading on the meter. For this test, we will assume you have a 3/4 hp 230V single phase 3 wire with ground submersible motor in the well.
According to the Franklin Electric manual the main winding should have a reading of between 3.0 and 3.6 ohms between the yellow and black wires.
The start windings are the reading between the yellow and red wires. The range should be between 10.7 and 13.1 ohms.
Check the Single Phase Motor Specs page from the Franklin Electric manual for details about other motors.


Last edited by waterwelldude; 08-29-09 at 11:21 AM.
 
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06-23-09, 05:20 AM   #13 (permalink)  
Testing submersible pumps Part II

The above post tells you how to test the motor, but often all you need to know if the pump is running.

Years ago, Clamp On Multimeters were very expensive and only the pros could afford them, but within the last couple of years the cost has dropped dramatically.

If you google "Clamp On Digital Multimeter" you will find them for sale at less than $20. At that price, if you do any type of electrical work around the house it is worth it.

These are no good for testing AA batteries, since often the DC Voltage range is 0-750VDC or some such, so you will still need a multimeter for electronics, but for AC electricity it is ideal.

To see if your pump is running, you first turn the breaker off, then clamp around one of the hot electrical wires, then turn the power back on. Make sure the pressure switch is working by watching it close.

 
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