Go Back  DoItYourself.com Community Forums > Heating, Cooling, Air Conditioning, Ventilation and T-Stat Controls > Air Conditioning and Cooling Systems
Reload this Page >

Read this if buying central air! Warning!!!! 19 seer advertised =15 seer in reality.

Read this if buying central air! Warning!!!! 19 seer advertised =15 seer in reality.


  #1  
Old 06-26-04, 07:35 PM
T
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: USA
Posts: 165
Upvotes: 0
Received 2 Upvotes on 2 Posts
Angry Read this if buying central air! Warning!!!! 19 seer advertised =15 seer in reality.

My parents just bought a system and they paid quite a bit for it over $14,000 (against my advice by the way). a 5 ton units and a complete redo of the ducting system and a furnace. We live in Los angeles where prices I assume are pretty high. They were also qouted for $10,000 a 15 seer unit with a complete duct redo from another company. They went about it fairly logically and assumed they can save more in Air conditioning costs over time by getting the 19 seer rather than the 15 seer. The Trane chart below is what they went by:

http://trane.com/Residential/Getting...cySavings.aspx

The salesman told us we were getting a 19 seer unit. They paid for a 19 seer unit. The model # matched what was advertised as a up to 19 seer unit on the lennoxx website.

It all matched up until a few days after the install we looked at the unit and noticed on the back the goverment seer rating stated it was a 15 seer unit!!!

Well my elderly mother went through the roof basically and to calm her down they said they would throw in a few year maintenice program. I guess they will change and clean the filters or something for a while.

Note:In the contract they had not written 19 seer Air conditioner they just wrote Lennox HSXA19 and the model # of the unit. Be sure the Installer writes down the Seer ratings number of the unit you are getting in your contract! not just the model #!!!

We found this Website in hindsight it tells you how many Seers you actually get from the manufactures advertised seer ratings. its for the year 2004

http://www.aceee.org/consumerguide/topcac.htm

As far as I can see none of the High energy effecient lennox units reached there advertised up to 19 seer or anything close to it. The Trane at least got to 17 and American Standard looked liked the closest to 19. A dozen eggs should mean you get 12 eggs. 19 seer should mean just that not 15. A 19 seer is %26 cheaper to run then the 15 seer we got. Makes a big difference over time.

They put the charts out which show the savings you will recieve for seer ratings they cannot even reach! I wish there was something legally that could be done to stop this false advertising by the Air conditioning companies but they cover themselves by using statements like up to 19.

Anyway I Hope this helps someone else avoids the same mistakes.
 
  #2  
Old 06-27-04, 07:59 AM
Ed Imeduc's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Mountain Williams Missouri
Posts: 17,505
Upvotes: 0
Received 1 Upvote on 1 Post
Wink

I think if you look at that Trane chart .It just shows what you will save in $$$ at a given SEER not what the seer of a unit is.

So why would you look at a Trane chart and then buy a Lennox????
The coil, lines, TXV and duct all work out to what the real SEER is


ED
 
  #3  
Old 06-27-04, 09:49 AM
hvac4u's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: NW atlanta
Posts: 3,049
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
it does sound as if you have a gripe, if not a case. you did get what was stated, but you had no idea of the seer rating. does the contract say 19 SEER as well as the model #? if so sue them. this is a mistake they should cover, i would contact the BBB, as well

i will find out why they call it an HSX 19 when it is not a 19seer and post back. the name is misleading.

on the other hand adding a TXV valve and variable speed AHU raises the SEER, may get to 19 with those, the unit is just labeled for it's max seer
 
  #4  
Old 06-27-04, 02:55 PM
hvac4u's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: NW atlanta
Posts: 3,049
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
here is what i have come up with

"19 SEER is only achieved in one tonnage."

"The nomenclature designation HSX19 or HSX15 or HS26 for Lennox does not mean that it is the SEER of that line of equipment. It is just the way Lennox labels their equipment the fact that one set-up is rated 19 SEER is a coincidence; I assure the HS26 or HS29 does not make 26 SEER or 29 SEER. Trane and one or two other manufacturers model numbers that work just as stated some match up in that line makes the line SEER. I think it is a deceptive way to market. The HSX19 however is the premier 2-stage unit on the market but should be sold for comfort not efficiency."

"The lennox website says you can get up to 19.20 seer with that model"

"Just in my few moments searching, it appears only the 3 ton has the ability to reach 19 SEER. "

these are quotes from a post i made on your behalf on a website for hvac pros. this is the straight scoop from guys i consider the true professionals in my trade.
 
  #5  
Old 06-27-04, 05:15 PM
T
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: USA
Posts: 165
Upvotes: 0
Received 2 Upvotes on 2 Posts
Thanks for the replies!

thanks for replies.

First off to ed's question I just put in the chart to show how we made the decision as to going with a 19 seer unit instead of the lower seer model units because of the energy savings we believed we would get. To the consumer thats what is presented as the savings they believe they will be getting with the different effecient units. The effeicency chart should apply to any manufacturs model we believed. Why we went with Lennox instead of trane was that our quote was slightly cheaper on the Lennox and we like some of the features better on it (quieter and coil style) but mainly beacuse we were told there 19 seer unit was the same as tranes 19 seer unit in performace which we found out was not true for the 5 ton units (17 seer for trane and 15 seer for lennox)

To Hvac thanks for the research into it. We were told also by our installer after the fact that only the 3 ton Lennox unit got up to 19 seer and you have confirmed it. hehe your right your not going to get 26 or 29 seer out of there other units however its no coincidence that there 19x model is advertised to get up to 19 seer and the 15x series is advertised to get up to 15 seer plus they probally only have one model number in the series that get even close to that rating. your kinda screwed if you order any other tonnage size.

We did get the Tvx and new ducting but would that possibly turn a 15 seer units into a 19? plus in a 3 ton unit wouldn't you get the 19 seer plus the benefits of the Tvx. would that make it 19 1/2 seer possibly? Thats kinda of what we expected. unfortunately the Installer did not write on the contract 19 seer for us and lennox did not technically misadvertise because they have one unit in a series of 15 and 16 seer units that gets to 19 seer.

The problem is if we knew we were getting a 15 seer we probally would have went with trane for $500 more and received a 17 seer or we had another quote $4,000 cheaper for a amana in a 14.5 seer unit also redoin our duct work where he actually did write down the seer number along with the model #.

I Realize the ducting the install, and other factors are crucial but if all other things are equal aren't you better of with a higher seer # rather than a lower one.

The Companies advertising is legal yet deceptive. I just wanted to let people know to check out the individual seer ratings for the tonnage they buy before the purchase, and to make sure its written in their contract.
 
  #6  
Old 06-27-04, 07:49 PM
54regcab's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Oklahoma City
Posts: 653
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
Exclamation On top of everythign else

If they put a 5ton in when only 3 or 4 tons was really needed you are only getting 13 to 14 SEER.
Did the contractor do a LOAD CALCULATION to determine correct sizing, of did he just put the same size in that was there ASSUMING the original size was correct ?
 
  #7  
Old 06-27-04, 08:25 PM
T
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: USA
Posts: 165
Upvotes: 0
Received 2 Upvotes on 2 Posts
no they didn't do it because they think they might add on to the house in the future and all of the people who gave estamites determined it to need the 5 tons (single story spread out 2,300sq ft house). Hopefully this wasn't another mistake that we made hehe.
 
 

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
 
Ask a Question
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: