Buying New HVAC - Trane quote details - thoughts?

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  #41  
Old 06-01-05, 12:54 PM
SalG
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Sigh... I don't know why I don't learn my lesson. I lost ANOTHER post just now and will have to start over if I can remember what I said.

I posted some more pictures. They are several views of the electrical. I wasn't sure what you all would want to see and it was hard to get decent pictures so please pardon the repetition and overlap.

Jay11J,
We did get both energy and Trane rebates.

I don't know if the pictures I added will answer your t-stat question or not. See TigerDunes answer below for the size info you asked about.


TigerDunes,
1.What size XL19i AC and furnace did you purchase?
3 ton, Furnace (quoting the brochure for our model number) "Output - BTUH - Stage 1 = 41.6, Stage 2=64.0". Coil is "3 ton high efficiency".

2.Did your dealer offer any written payback calculations and if so how long to recover your investment?
The brochure, as well as other papers he gave us on the initial visit, show that sort of information.

3.What was the age and type of your old system?
The old system was a Rheem. There are pictures of it on the Yahoo site. I believe it was at least a few years old when the previous owners moved in. That would be around 13 years ago so it was over 13 years old anyway. It was leaking freon and being unpredictable, too.

4.That was a very quick installation. How many people/techs were involved?
There were two men installing. Their approx. work time was 7:30am - 6:30pm. One stayed after that to finalize paperwork.

5.Was any modification to your ductwork made other than the transitions to supply and return?
There were no real changes to any ductwork. We had one small duct added to a small bathroom.


Ok, hopefully this will post this time instead of going into the forum black hole. This will be my third attempt.
 
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  #42  
Old 06-01-05, 04:18 PM
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Ok, your dip switchs are set up right.


Only thing I think they did NOT do is put a small jumper wire between "O" and "Ylo" on the blower control board. (See wire drawing on the blower door, Note #9. "Jumper used to use for proper operation of the delay profile"

Also just out of question, did they leave the isntall manual for the t-stat, just want to see if they have the t-stat set up right.
 
  #43  
Old 06-01-05, 06:09 PM
SalG
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Regarding the jumper between Ylo and O, someone on another forum had asked about that as well. He said on this model, and he verified the information after reading what they wrote, it is different. He showed me on the inside panel and this is what it says, "For Cooling - only/non-heat pump systems, jumper Y to O for humidistat operations."

I just pulled the panel to look for Note 9. I see what you are referring to. I guess I'll need to ask about that again. The quote above is under another Notes section and it is the bottom one on Note 3. Do you have that? Is that referring to something different?

I have the install manual on the t-stat. He is getting me the manuals for the other components because the install tech didn't leave them for me.
 
  #44  
Old 06-01-05, 07:51 PM
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at the end of Note #9, It says "for two speed or compressor, jumper "Ylo" and "O".

I am not sure what am I suppose to look for on #3? that is 120volts for Humid or EAC... You don't need these wires... Unless it's #3 on something else??
 
  #45  
Old 06-01-05, 08:00 PM
SalG
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The Note 3 he showed me is on a different paper stuck to the inside panel. (Different than the diagram one where Note 9 is) It has various categories on it then a "Notes" section to the side.

Categories are: Indoor Motor Airflow Selection Chart/Outdoor Unit; Cooling Airflow Settings; Cooling off delay options; Heating airflow settings -CFM.

Note 3 on the other paper says:
If Humidistat is Used:
-*UD/DD: Connect between BK and R
-*UY/DY: cut jumper above BK & R and connect between BK & R terminals.
-For cooling - only/ non-heat pump systems, jumper Y to O for humidistat operations.

* prefix maybe "T" or "A"
 
  #46  
Old 06-01-05, 08:03 PM
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If you are using a humidstat for cooling then you do the steps, it dont loook like you have one.. so I won't worry about that one.
 
  #47  
Old 06-01-05, 08:14 PM
SalG
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I thought someone at some point, whether the salesman or a technician, said that the humidistat is built in on the 19i. I'm repeating what I think I heard rather than knowing what I'm talking about with that. If that is the case, it would stand to reason that Note 3 doesn't even apply? Is that kind of what you are saying?

And that being the case, we are back to Note 9 and Jumper between O and Ylo ?
 
  #48  
Old 06-01-05, 08:21 PM
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Your first stage on the system acts as a dehumidfire, so you don't need a dehumidstat, and don't need to follow #3

so must do the jumper on Ylo and O for the fan to run the right speed, and take advantage of the Comfort R.
 
  #49  
Old 06-01-05, 10:19 PM
SalG
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FYI - MORE DETAILS ON COMFORT-R AND THE JUMPER BETWEEN O AND Ylo

I got this information from another forum. I thought I'd go ahead and post it here in case someone is learning about their Trane from this thread or is considering buying one. This information allows you to see if you are getting the Comfort-R set up properly with the Jumper between O and Ylo by diagnosing it yourself. I walked my way through it, slowly because this is all so new to me, but was able to support what I've been told here and at the other forum about needing that Jumper. Doing this diagnostic gives me even more backing as I bring it up to the installation contractor tomorrow.

=============================================

If you take the furnace door off and hold the door switch in (use tape or something), call for cooling from the thermostat. There is a green CFM indicator light near dip switch 8. It will actually have the letters "CFM" written in white letters on the control board next to the LED. It's just above the 16 wire harness going from the board to the ECM.

The light flashes 1 time for every 100 cfm. When your three ton unit calls for first stage, that light will flash 3 times for 1 minute, indicating 300 cfm. It is supposed to then go to 5 flashes for 7.5 minutes, then it should go to 6 flashes for the duration of the call for first stage cooling.

Background: Dip switches 3 and 4 being off and off set the airflow to 400cfm/ton). In other words, you have a 3 ton system at 400 cfm/ton equals the maximum airflow for second stage (3 ton compressor) is 1200cfm. That would be 12 flashes as the green CFM indicator flashes one time for each 100 CFM. Maximum airflow for the first stage (1.5 ton compressor) is 600 cfm (400 cfm/ton times 1.5 tons).

In either stage of cooling, the Comfort-R (with jumper from "o" to "Ylo") will run at 50% CFM for 1 minute, 80% CFM for 7.5 minutes, and 100% CFM for duration of call.

Without the jumper from "O" to "Ylo", you will completely bypass the 80% phase in either stage of cooling. In other words, when the unit first comes on in cooling mode, you will see 3 flashes for 1 minute, then it will go right to 6 flashes. If the thermostat calls for second stage immediately, you will see 6 flashes for a minute, then directly to 12 flashes (it will bypass 10 flashes which is ~80% of 1200cfms).

Again, first stage is 1.5 tons. The airflow will be 300 cfm for 1 minute (3 flashes), 480 cfm for 7.5 minutes (5 flashes), and 600 cfm (6 flashes) for the duration of the call for first stage. If the thermostat calls for second stage immediately, the airflow will be 600 cfm for 1 minute (6 flashes), 960 cfm for 7.5 minutes (10 flashes), and 1200 cfm for the duration of the call for second stage (12 flashes). You will NOT get the 80% phase without that jumper!

=======================================
Another post gave this information:

For normal operation the unit must have a jumper between O and Ylo for Comfort-R to work on a 2 stage cooling system, or between O and Y on a single stage cooling system. He needs to get the Trane "Comfort-R Enhanced Mode Variable Speed Pocket Guide" if he doesn't have one. Unfortunatly the actual instructions with the unit are not as clear on the point as they should be.
 
  #50  
Old 06-02-05, 04:15 AM
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I imagine the flexible gas line is for earthquake reasons but it's awful long. Also does the gas line have a drip leg??

Why didn't they trap the condensate line?

Looks good though.
 
  #51  
Old 06-02-05, 07:00 AM
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Sal, I saw that posting on that other form.. Good info. I agree with Matt, should be a trap on the gas line, and that's why I mention about the water heater earlier.


Matt, Trap is not needed on positive side of the system.. Unless it code in the area.. Here it's not needed.. Just on the negative side.
 
  #52  
Old 06-02-05, 10:56 PM
SalG
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Matt and Jay, I'll check about the gas line regardless if we relocate the water heater in the near future or not. Thank you for noticing and bringing it up.



I'm going to run this by you and see if anyone has any thoughts on the matter. A little earlier, I was out back to take the dog out. The outside unit fan is blowing but it is making a sort of buzzing sound that I don't recall from before. It sounds sort of like if a regular 3-speed oscillating fan is on but the blades are stuck. It is coming from down low on the unit. The air is blowing/cooling at low speed inside.

I also noticed that in the opening where the pipes enter the unit from the house, there is a little puddle forming in that opening. Around the base of the unit under the opening, at the concrete, it is moist also. It looks kind of like water seeping out from under the unit but I think it is running down from the opening above it.

The weather is a little more humid tonight so maybe it is just doing its job and we haven't had it long enough for me to learn how it behaves.

If the buzz continues, I guess I will have to ask them about that unless it is something you guys know about already. Hopefully it is nothing wrong.
 
  #53  
Old 06-03-05, 07:30 AM
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I woudn't know what the buzzing noise is about. Is the outdoor fan running??

It could be a viration on the cabinet??

As for water, that is ok.. The larger line coming from the house is cool, and you said it's humid out.. the line is cool and going to sweat.
 
  #54  
Old 06-03-05, 07:45 AM
SalG
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Yes, the outside fan is running. I guess I've heard other units make that type buzzing sound but I don't think this one was doing it at first. When it starts up, there is an electrical pop sound which the tech said has to do with connectors when it ramps up or something.

This sound is a constant buzz/hum down low more in the compressor area rather than up higher where the fan is. It isn't a vibration type noise so I don't think it is that.

I guess everything is running fine but it makes the outdoor unit more like everyone else's and not as quiet as I thought it was going to be according to what I was told. If it gets louder, I'll definitely tell the tech about it I guess.
 
  #55  
Old 06-03-05, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by SalG
Yes, the outside fan is running. I guess I've heard other units make that type buzzing sound but I don't think this one was doing it at first. When it starts up, there is an electrical pop sound which the tech said has to do with connectors when it ramps up or something.

This sound is a constant buzz/hum down low more in the compressor area rather than up higher where the fan is. It isn't a vibration type noise so I don't think it is that.

I guess everything is running fine but it makes the outdoor unit more like everyone else's and not as quiet as I thought it was going to be according to what I was told. If it gets louder, I'll definitely tell the tech about it I guess.
These units are very quiet. There should be no humming or buzzing and certainly this should be looked at by installing dealer. The water is most likely just condensation-monitor this for a couple of days but this seems normal. You did not purchase Trane to be like everyone else.!
 
  #56  
Old 06-03-05, 08:10 AM
SalG
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Originally Posted by TigerDunes
You did not purchase Trane to be like everyone else.!

Very good point. And we decided to spend the extra money for a supposedly better company and the high end Trane model to avoid all these type issues. Frustrating.

I hope I can get everything resolved soon and just settle in to enjoying this new system.
 
  #57  
Old 09-28-05, 01:15 PM
SalG
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Just thought I'd do a follow-up. We've had our new Trane for a few months now. Overall, things have been great.

We are here in N. Texas so summer months will be where our biggest savings show up. Of course now, maybe what we save on electricity will just about cover the increase in gas heating this winter.

The Trane was installed in June. Here are our electric bills compared to last year.

May
2004 - 177.04, 2005 - 208.58 (before Trane)
June
2004 - 222.42, 2005 - 120.88 (month Trane was installed)
July
2004 - 249.23, 2005 - 151.16
August
2004 - 264.75, 2005 - 163.46

We haven't really changed our temperature setting habits and we keep a cool house. If we kept the temp setting up higher, the savings would be even greater of course.

We are pleased with the results.

The unit outside has a loud "pop" when it kicks on and the hum is a little louder than I expected but nothing compared to what we had or what the neighbors have. The "pop" is even startling sometimes because it is so loud. We were told that the sound wasn't anything to be concerned over.

I have yet to have them come out and do the additional settings that they failed to do in the beginning. I suspect our savings would be even a bit more if we had gotten that taken care of during the summer months.

We are also hoping to increase the insulation in our attic at some point (after the weather cools off some) so maybe that will help even further. We are on a pier and beam foundation. The salesman didn't seem to think insulating under the flooring would make a difference. Any thoughts on that?


Thanks again for those of you on this board who helped guide us through this major purchase.
 
  #58  
Old 09-28-05, 08:11 PM
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Hey!

Thanks for the update.. WOW.. talk about cutting your power bill almost half! on top of it all, you guys been having high temps lately.

What settings did they fail to do?

is the pop noise has a hissing sound? Could be the reversing valve.
 
  #59  
Old 09-30-05, 11:54 AM
SalG
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The settings I'm referring to were what we talked about earlier in the thread regarding the Comfort-R/ jumper between O and Ylo.

The "pop" is when the compressor switches on. We have a little refrigerator at the office that does the same thing. So it is an electrical switch kind of "pop". It just seems so loud I'm hoping it isn't a bad thing. There is no hissing that I have heard.
 
  #60  
Old 09-30-05, 12:01 PM
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Wrong comparison

to be a bit more accurate you need to read the kilowatt hours used NOT what you paid during the month. Also you need to compare how many cooling day hours you had during the months compared. You certainly can't compare a record breaking hot summer with a mild one and say look how much I saved, also energy prices fluctuate, so it's really more accurate to compare power used, not how much the power cost in comparison to last year.... The real measuring stick is comfort....is the house comfortable as you wanted?.... The bang you talk about is strange because the compressors are wrapped in a plastic insulation blanket on them, and the only thing I've heard similar that startles me, are the scroll compressors that run backwards a bit when they stop. A bang when it starts sounds like liquid slugging which means a short life for the compressor. you need to find out what is banging, it might be a shipping block that was inadvertantly overlooked.
 
  #61  
Old 10-01-05, 09:47 AM
SalG
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I knew when I posted that my method of comparison was hardly accurate but it was a quick way to show the difference and a whole lot easier than trying to gather the other info. Even though it is flawed, it does gives an idea.

Since we haven't changed how we use our a/c, that is a somewhat constant in the equation. Although, I think we are able to set the temp up a little higher during the day actually so that would lean towards a larger savings gap.

Since Texas is always hot in the summer, the a/c runs a LOT, so that provides another somewhat constant.

Cost of electricity... that one I'd have to research to see if there are changes. More than likely, it would've gone up rather than down which makes the differences even better.

Anyway, the exact amount we're saving is unknown, but there are some savings and if I were energetic enough to be more detailed and do more research, we'd know more specifically. Maybe someday when I'm doing some extensive paperwork, I'll throw that project into the mix and we will know more accurately. Thanks for the factors I should look for, though. I don't know if I would've thought of them all and taken all of them into consideration.

Oh, and yes, the house is comfortable and we are most certainly pleased from that standpoint.
 
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