Buying New HVAC - Trane quote details - thoughts?

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  #1  
Old 05-24-05, 10:48 AM
SalG
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Question Buying New HVAC - Trane quote details - thoughts? (PURCHASE MADE, TRANE INSTALLED)

Our current old system has run its course. It is leaking freon and icing up. It randomly makes huge noises in the coil area which the representative we talked to said could be sheets of ice forming and then falling. The heater runs nicely but has a really odd smell. Not the smell when it first starts for the season but something different. Repairing isn’t a reasonable option. We are going for full replacement of all components.

We live in N. Texas so A/C obviously gets the bigger usage. But, we do need a good heater for a few months of the year. Our home is approx 1390 sq feet and we will be adding a patio room on the NE corner of about 130 addtl sq ft. There are trees near that corner so it only gets a little morning sun. The afternoon sun hits hard on about half of the front of the house. The home was built in the late 50s but has fully insulated walls and brick veneer. There are an average number of windows.

I’m going to give you all the details we received, even though it will make this lengthy, in hopes your advice and wisdom will help us in our decision as well as maybe help the next person choosing a system. We plan to get some more quotes, including one from a Rheem rep on Thursday, but this is the first.

We had a Trane representative come visit us yesterday for a few hours. He asked lots of questions, took measurements of our current unit and spent a lot of time discussing our current needs and usage. The company seems to be stable and has longevity. The man we spoke to is actually the owner and comes highly recommended by a friend of ours who uses this company as a business contact as well as for personal HVAC needs.

He gave us three quotes for various size units. The three he quoted us, from cheapest to most expensive, are the XR12, XL15i, and XL19i.

From his quote, what the units have or they will provide:

For all three units:
R22, pilotless ignition, transition adapter between furnace & coil, 1” common size air filter door, internal plastic drain pan, an additional ducting to our master bathroom.

On the XL15i, and XL19i, in addition to the above, they will put in a new concrete pad if necessary.

On the XL19i, the quote also includes a Trane Perfect Fit Replaceable Media Air Cleaner, the Quiet package to reduce indoor noise, and a Trane programmable thermostat (which is required with this model. The other two models can use our current programmable thermostat).

For $90, we can get “Enhanced Dehumidification (instant cool & warm air) added to the XR12 or XL15i. I guess the XL19i already has that built in.

System capacity for all three
3 ton – Although, he said if we increased our attic insulation, which we intend to do at some point before too long, we could probably use a 2.5 ton. He said with the XL19i, going a little large is the exception to the rule about not getting a unit too large in capacity. I wasn’t real clear on why that was the case.

System SEER rating – FTC (energy guide)
XR12 13 SEER
XL15i 15.25 SEER
XL19i 19 SEER

As far as models and warranty info (least expensive listed first in each):
Outdoor Unit:
Compressor/ OD Coil/ Parts/ Labor
XR12 10 yr/10 yr/5 yr/1 yr
XL15i 10/10/10/2
XL19i 10/10/10/2

The furnace – “Quiet Model” is check marked
Heat Exchanger/Parts/Labor
XR80 20/5/1
XR80 20/10/2
Variable Speed 20/10/2

Indoor Coil
Parts/Labor
Super Efficiency 5/1
Super Efficiency 10/2
Super Efficiency 10/2

For $200, the extended warranty makes the complete system – parts and labor, 10 years.

Total prices, after energy company rebates and Trane rebates, are about $1300 apart.

The warranty does not include the extra charge beyond normal business hour service calls. We would have to pay the difference between after hours/weekend rates and normal rates.

The website has the other warranty information which maybe would be considered standard for extended warranties. Routine maintenance isn’t covered but seems to be required in order to keep the warranty in place. It looks like buying the extended warranty might be a good idea but isn’t making service calls cost free by any means.

The XL19i is the “Cadillac” and “most efficient” that they have and of course, his main recommendation. There are two compressors and everything is two-stage. I’m a little confused as to whether we really need those things or not, particularly on a heater since we don’t use it heavily much of the year.

With the information I’ve given you, does anything stand out as out of line in his proposal? Does it seem necessary for us to go with the XL19i or can we save the money and do just fine with the XL15i? We plan to stay in the house for a lot of years so the investment we make is for our comfort and benefit.

Thank you for any thoughts and advice you can share. We feel on "borrowed time" with our current system and will need to make a decision quickly.
 

Last edited by SalG; 05-31-05 at 09:24 PM.
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  #2  
Old 05-24-05, 12:07 PM
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Sounds like you've got yourself a good company there.

He is correct in all aspects and is recomending an 80% furnace which is all you need. Did he give you any idea on pay back with the 19i ?? Also did he do a heat load/loss calculation to verfy needs or is he going by what's already there?? Either way he has given you a lot of information to digest and spent some time with you, which is a plus.
 
  #3  
Old 05-24-05, 01:01 PM
SalG
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He did discuss the payback on the 19i but I will have to check with my husband on that because I didn't write it down. He gave us a notebook with brochures on each model and I believe that info is included in the papers in the notebook but I'm not finding it easily. It seems like he said it would take quite a few years to "pay for itself" but since we aren't planning on moving anytime soon, that wasn't as big an issue for us in some ways.

I asked him about Manual J, which I learned about here in the forum I believe, and he said they have a list of questions that I guess is based on the guidelines found there. It sounded like he meant if those questions didn't give him the info they needed, he would dig deeper into the guidelines.

I think if we go with him, we'd choose one of the top two. Determining the differences and whether they are "wants" or "needs" is where we are now I think. It seems silly to pay an extra $1300 or so when the middle model would suit us just fine. But, if the top model is that much better and is something we "need", we want to consider it.

Any help on those concerns?
 
  #4  
Old 05-24-05, 05:23 PM
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15 or 19

Let me preface my remarks by saying I am not real familiar with Trane.
It does sound like this contractor is going beyond most in his efforts to provide you with information.
If I recall correctly, the 19i will only give you the 19 SEER when matched with a specific indoor coil & air handler. I may be mistaken but I don't think matching it with a furnace will meet the 19 SEER criteria. Also, in general, I am not a "the latest is the greatest" sort of person.
 
  #5  
Old 05-24-05, 07:42 PM
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Recommendations

The only thing I would caution you on is the new change comming about and that is that R22 is already in phase out process. January 23, 2006 minimum standard efficiencies go from a 10 SEER to 13 SEER. R22 has, to date, no drop in replacement on the market. The new refrigerant replacing R22 is R410a, The cost of R22 like R12 will start to climb quickly and you may get stuck with a gas charge of 400-500 for like say 8-10lbs, rather than the usual $50-60...(lets say in about 6 or 7 years....) You cant use 410a in any of the old equipment either...I'd get a quoate for a 410a system so you don't get stuck...seeing your replacing the whole system. Oh, have them replace all the piping too and specify in the contract they nitrogen purge while brazing....most guys dont, and know they are supposed to because it takes a bit more time but the piping (internally)is so much cleaner when done with nitrogen. Have the pipe set insulated with half inch instead of 3/8" Armaflex. I'm surprized your not getting a heat pump... are you aware of what a heat pump is?
 
  #6  
Old 05-24-05, 10:08 PM
SalG
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Grady,

We aren't ones to get something just because it is the "latest and greatest" either. To me, I'd rather something be out a while for the kinks to be cleared. I don't know if these Trane models are new or not. He did say there are changes coming next year and I've heard that from more than one place. I guess there are new regulations coming into effect. The quote we received has the components grouped a certain way. I didn't think to ask if the SEER changes with any changes from the way he had them. Thanks for bringing that to our attention.


hvac01453,

I guess there is quite a debate about the R-22 vs R410a and how fast it will rise in price and become unavailable. The rep we talked to felt confident in recommending R-22. Both arguments make sense so I don't really know what to believe on that issue.
 
  #7  
Old 05-25-05, 04:05 AM
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Originally Posted by SalG
I guess there is quite a debate about the R-22 vs R410a and how fast it will rise in price and become unavailable. The rep we talked to felt confident in recommending R-22. Both arguments make sense so I don't really know what to believe on that issue.
There was all kinds of gloom and doom predicted with the R-12 phaseout. Yes, refrigerant prices spiked quite high. Prices have settled down a bit, though.

New products are available as a drop in replacement for those that still have R-12 equipment. Not all of those products were available when the phaseout started.

A properly installed R-22 system should not leak much at all. It is impossible to be leak proof, though. The service valves are the most common leak points, short of a catastrophic failure in one of the components. That is why the valve caps must be in place, they serve a purpose.

You will lose more refrigerant with annual service calls for performance checks than with most leaks.

Brazing the copper lines with high silver content rod instead of soft soldering will ensure long life. Purging with nitrogen will give the best brazing environment possible. Silver rod is more expensive than 95/5 soft solder. Nitrogen purges take time and equipment. Lowball contractors will not do this. Others will say they will, charge for it, then not do it.

Future top-offs are usually measured in ounces, unless the leak is major. Annul "topping-off" is a sign of a poorly installed system.

If your system needs repair, you own the refrigerant. A shop can charge you time (labor) to recover the refrigerant, but they cannot just take it, that is theft. Technicallly, the customer should be paid for the refrigerant when old equipment is removed.

Like R-12, R-22 will always be available, at a price. People learned from the R-12 thing and will stockpile R-22 while the prices are lower. I believe the final phaseout is 2020.

Naturally, even if there was a problem, the salesman would say there is not a problem, or else you wouldn't buy, and the salesman would not get a commission check.

Who knows what the future holds. Availability of R-22 may be the least of our worries. www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net
 
  #8  
Old 05-25-05, 04:09 AM
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If you go with either the 1st or 2nd tier system pay the extra few bucks and get a 4"-5" media filter instead of the 1".
 
  #9  
Old 05-25-05, 08:53 AM
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This is what I would suggest,

XL15i
XV80 (variable speed furnace)
Media filter, Forget the 1" filter. (Honeywell or Aprilair, or Air Bear)
Honeywell VisionPro T-stat.

I have the XR11 (Short cooling needs June to Sept)
XV90 (Longer heating needs)
Honeywell F200 Media filter
and Honeywell VisionPro

Make sure the dealer sets up the dip switches for Comfort-R, and wire up for 2-stage heating to the T-stat, not timer.

I am very very happy of what I have, and my parents and uncle has the same thing..
 
  #10  
Old 05-25-05, 11:26 AM
SalG
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Jay,

Thank you for your suggestion. Do you find your unit to be as quiet as they said is was going to be?

Our current system is loud but I think a lot of the noise is the air coming into the closet and up into the fan. The Trane rep said with his unit, it wouldn't make so much noise... even the airflow wouldn't be as loud. I think the reasoning was that with the variable speed fan, it would run on the lower speed most of the time. We have wood and tile floors so we don't have the noise deadening benefit of carpet. The "loudness" factor is certainly of interest to me as a result.

I've had someone else suggest Honeywell filters. What is better about them than the, I guess, Trane Perfect Fit ones? You also suggest the Honeywell thermostat. You have had good luck with that one?

Thanks again.
 
  #11  
Old 05-25-05, 11:34 AM
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First of all, I would make an energy comparison, gas vs electricity in your area.This is very easy using a fuel comparison calculator. See below link.

http://www.warmair.net/html/fuel_cost_comparisons.htm

Second, do yourself a favor and insist upon a written Manual J heat/cool load calculation. This is the professional method of sizing equipment and doing business. This protects both you and the dealer if there is a later problem with size of equipment. I would also suggest that a thorough survey of your ductwork is made-supply and return, condition, CFMs, etc. Also give your dealer any concerns/problems with existing system that he should address in new system.

While you don’t say specifically what area of Texas you live, I used Lubbock, Tx as a guide to find average temperatures in the summer and winter. Trane has this feature on their website and you may want to look at that. It appears AC is more important than heating.

Climate average for: 79403 - LUBBOCK, TX



Number of days/year above 75deg 153

Number of days/year below 40deg 62


Typical hot days temp 92deg
Typical cold days temp 38deg




As far as equipment, you are looking at split systems.

AC with gas furnace
Heat pump with gas furnace(dual fuel)
Heat pump with air handler

I would definitely pay close attention to your fuel comparison in letting that be a guide in the selection of type of system you choose. I like a good 5” media filter cabinet for air quality-Trane, AprilAire, Honeywell,AirBear-all quality cabinets.
I would strongly recommend a variable speed air blower either on gas furnace or an air handler if you choose a straight heat pump. Variable speed helps with improved dehumidification in AC, improved air quality, room to room comfort, operating efficiency, and is extremely quiet. You may want to look at a programmable thermostat-Honeywell are good.

As far as the specific system, I would not recommend the XL19i-too expensive and can’t justify from a payback. I would look at the following:

XL16i-heat pump or straight AC-only available in R-410a frig(not available in 1/2 ton increments)
XL15i-heat pump or straight AC-only available in R-22
XL14i-heat pump or AC-available in either refrigerant
You will need a matching high efficient evaporator coil. Don't select your system based on refrigerant.

If you decide on a gas furnace, I would recommend the XV80 with variable speed blower with an appropriate size heat pump (dual fuel). You may find that a heat pump with variable speed air handler gives you the highest SEER and HSPF ratings and will be the least expensive to operate. Trane heat pumps are very reliable.

My opinion. All the comments by forum members here deserve your consideration. Good Luck!
 

Last edited by TigerDunes; 05-25-05 at 12:34 PM.
  #12  
Old 05-25-05, 11:43 AM
SalG
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Tiger Dunes,
Thank you for all the detail and your opinions. We will definitely be taking all these comments into consideration. There is wisdom in a multitude of counselors and I know we need the counsel on a big decision like this.

Both you and hvac01453 talk about heat pumps. I have to admit, even though I've read some on them, I'm not really clear on what they are, how they work and how they are different from what I have now.

If a heat pump is something we should consider and anyone has the time to help us understand about them, we'd appreciate any input.

Thanks
 
  #13  
Old 05-25-05, 12:32 PM
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A wonderul heat pump primer. They are not as mysterious as many think and today's models actually provide warm heat in the heating mode.

http://energyoutlet.com/res/heatpump/index.html

Trane also has a good article. 'Guide to Heat Pumps"

http://www.trane.com/Residential/Pro...HeatPumps.aspx

I installed an XL14i heat pump paired with XV90 gas Furnace with variable speed end of 2004 and love it. It works like Trane claimed and it saves $$$.

You will be amazed at the difference in comfort as well, particularly if you purchase the variable speed blower. How old is existing system?

Good Luck!
 
  #14  
Old 05-25-05, 01:04 PM
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yes, Variable speed is quiet as they say it is... Only time I hear it is when the furnace is running in heating, The blower runs faster to move the heat away from the heat exchanger.

otherwise, my fan is running, 24/7 and I don't even hear it.. I just hear the fan running on the computer in the office.

As long the duct work is sized right, and dip switches are setup right, it's a great system.

Honeywell has a T-stat called "VisionPro".. There are Vision in Home Centers, but the ones you get off the shelf has less options... I have the Pro Version, and like it lot.. I got the background light on all the time.. A good night light in the dark hall way at night.
http://www.hotfreshcool.com/visionpro_demo.html

Give it a try on the web.

As for comfort, We have a '68 split level home, both floors and all rooms are -/+1 degree from each other.
 
  #15  
Old 05-25-05, 06:54 PM
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the truth

Much of what danski said is admittanly true...except for the part of adding only ounces... If I have to drag out that jug to charge , I don't think its ever been less than a pound, my gauges take about 4 ounces themselves. Annual service to AC units putting on gauges is a no-no. A good tech should be able to know if the system is cooling OK by the air flow delta T and feeling the piping. You need a reason to put on the gauges. When I do on critically charged systems, I precharge my gauges with 22 to prevent disturbing the charge.
As for one of the other guys saying removing the 22 while changing a system is theft is hilarious...a.) can't use the gas anywhere except for the same customer. b.) Nobody uses recycled gas on a new unit, no even a rookie. c.) Customer must also pay for a recovery and disposal fee of the old gas, d.) to use the gas anywhere else it must be back to lab standards 700-85 (Not sure on the number)e.) It's the cheapest gas out there and widely available at present.
I think the R22 phaseout starts in 2008 or 2009, thats only 3 years or so...By the time you call us to fix the unit all the gas is gone anyway. R410a has been around since 1996 and all major companies are making units with it now, It uses POE oil so all the piping on an old system will at least need to be flushed. The pressures are much higher, no schraeders valves or cap tubes, and the steel casings on the compressors are thicker. This also requires us to purchase yet another set of gauges and hoses....whoopeeee.
 
  #16  
Old 05-26-05, 04:09 AM
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Question

Originally Posted by SalG
On the XL19i, the quote also includes a Trane Perfect Fit Replaceable Media Air Cleaner, the Quiet package to reduce indoor noise, and a Trane programmable thermostat (which is required with this model. .
Just curious but did dealer explain what a quiet package was?
I have never heard this term used with Trane equipment.
 
  #17  
Old 05-26-05, 01:59 PM
SalG
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TigerDunes,

On the quote sheet, "Quiet Package" is just one of the line items. The column for the 19i is the only one checked as having that feature. I looked in the brochure for that term but didn't find it anywhere. I guess it is just referring to the 19i being such a gem and so quiet. ???

I looked at the links you referenced about heat pumps. I think I just confused myself more than I already am with all these choices. I was searching for some sort of bottom line comparison or an "if you have this, or live here, then a heat pump is the way to go" kind of statement. I didn't run across anything like that. I suppose we could ask the Trane rep we spoke to about that option.
 
  #18  
Old 05-26-05, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by hvac01453
As for one of the other guys saying removing the 22 while changing a system is theft is hilarious...a.) can't use the gas anywhere except for the same customer. b.) Nobody uses recycled gas on a new unit, no even a rookie. c.) Customer must also pay for a recovery and disposal fee of the old gas, d.) to use the gas anywhere else it must be back to lab standards 700-85 (Not sure on the number)e.) It's the cheapest gas out there and widely available at present.
Why couldn't it be considered theft? Maybe no one cares now with the cost of the refrigerant so low, but maybe that will change when R22 is worth over $30 a pound like R12. Customers do not pay the disposal fee, neither do shops- at least the ones I am familiar with. As long as the recovery tank pressure matches a TP chart, refrigerant recyclers pay the HVAC shop for used refrigerant. The only time a disposal fee is involved is when the recovery tank is contaminated with something besides the labeled refrigerant. Then the tank ends up in the back 40 and "develops a leak"...

The shop will have to recover the refrigerant anyway (if they are EPA compliant), so there should not be additional labor charges.

If the system was operating, and there is no evidence of a run and burn, several service techs have told me that it is acceptable to use recycled refrigerant IF it is removed from the system through a filter drier and replaced through a filter drier. Removing the refrigerant through a filter drier is a good idea anyway to remove contaminants that may damage the recovery equipment. A quick check with a TP chart will verify if there is something wrong with the charge- like air or mixed refrigerants.
 
  #19  
Old 05-27-05, 04:44 AM
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Originally Posted by SalG
TigerDunes,

I looked at the links you referenced about heat pumps. I think I just confused myself more than I already am with all these choices. I was searching for some sort of bottom line comparison or an "if you have this, or live here, then a heat pump is the way to go" kind of statement. I didn't run across anything like that. I suppose we could ask the Trane rep we spoke to about that option.
Not certain what kind of information you require to help make your decision. There is no "smoking gun" to say this is what you require in HVAC equipment if you have a certain type home located in a specific location. I do know this-you live in an area that has a moderate winter and that is the reason I think a high efficient heat pump is worth looking into. Have you checked into your energy rates and plugged these into the comparison chart? How is your electric rate structured? What do you pay for a therm of gas? Talk to your dealer about the possibilty of a dual fuel system or a straight heat pump. Do any of your neighbors have heat pumps? Fuel will only get more expensive and it is generally accepted fact that natural gas prices will be more volatile than electric prices. Insist on a Manual J heat/cool load calculation as properly sizing equipment will determine your operating costs and comfort. I realize this is a daunting task and decision having gone through this process last year. Sometimes, you can get so frustrated by the sheer combinations of equipment that are available but you have been provided very good advice on this forum. You are on the right track and ultimately will have to make a decision based on your comfort/confidence zone of equipment and dealer. No doubt Trane is very good equipment but you also need expert installation. Only purchase from authorized dealers.

Good Luck!

 
  #20  
Old 05-27-05, 10:36 AM
SalG
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Thumbs up The Decision

Thank you all for the wisdom and suggestions. I printed out all the posts and we studied them making notes and questions for the Trane rep. He answered questions and clarified, explained and assured us on some of the concerns.

We got him to re-price the 15i using the variable speed furnace and adding in a few of the features we'd want that are standard on the 19i. After it was all said and done with rebates, upgrades, etc. factored in, the 15i we would be getting was only a few hundred dollars cheaper than the 19i. We decided to go for the 19i because of that. Most have said getting the 19i is a comfort decision so we decided the comfort was worth a couple hundred. Was it worth over a $1000? That we're not sure of.

The contractor is reputable, has been in business a long time and is an authorized Trane dealer so that should all be in our favor.

Our install is on Tuesday so hopefully, they'll do a great job and we will have a wonderfully comfortable Texas summer.

Thank you all again for your advice. We definitely heeded it and feel we made educated choices that we might not have otherwise based on what you shared.
 

Last edited by SalG; 05-27-05 at 10:57 AM.
  #21  
Old 05-27-05, 12:44 PM
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Keep us posted on your results, and also post the pic of before and after. :-)
 
  #22  
Old 05-27-05, 05:27 PM
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Just my two cents worth I like the use of a 90+ variable speed furnace with a XR-12 out door unit and a Vision thermostat with a outdoor sensor and lock out set at 37 degrees this gives you good cooling and great heat really can't beat the cost or the real world payback.

Heatpump works by reversing the path of refrigerant. Do you know how the outdoor unit blows out heat off the top of the unit.In the winter time if the path is reversed then it blows heat inside and cools the outside. Trust me it is just about all I install here in the coast of NC and our summers weather is 96 and winter is 36 real close to your climate.

One thing stick with Trane.
 
  #23  
Old 05-28-05, 05:23 AM
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Congratulations SalG.

You really could not go wrong with any of the suggestions here. I do agree with Scott. While I did believe your climate/locale was ideal for a high efficient heat pump, there still is a great deal of hesitancy regarding this type of equipment. Having said that and if your equipment was sized properly for your home, your best feature will be the variable speed blower which you should notice immediately as far as room to room comfort, quietness,and dehumidification. A couple of questions.

1.what model evaporator coil will your dealer be installing?

2.what model thermostat?

3.what type/model of air cleaner did you select?

Small items relatively speaking but important in getting the maximum out of a premium system.

Let us know how system works once it's installed.

2 days for installation?

 
  #24  
Old 05-28-05, 07:11 AM
SalG
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Jay11J,

I was planning on taking before and after pictures for documentation purposes so I'd be glad to share them. Someone will have to tell me how, though.

TigerDunes,

1.what model evaporator coil will your dealer be installing?
I can't find a model number, but the brochure calls it, "High Efficiency Comfort Coil" and on the quote page, he wrote, "Super Efficiency". It seems to be the High Efficiency one at this webpage. http://www.trane.com/Residential/Products/Coils.aspx

2.what model thermostat?
In order for our warranty to cover the thermostat, we have to use the one that says “Trane” on it. We said the Honeywell ProVision had been recommended to us by several people. He either said that is what the one we are getting is, just with Trane’s label on it or that it is virtually the same with the same features. I don’t remember which. We didn’t really have a choice on that though. I guess our choice was between a touch screen and one with buttons.

3.what type/model of air cleaner did you select?
Because of allergies, a semi-dusty house and a dog, we decided to upgrade to the electronic air filter. He never even mentioned it in his sales pitch maybe because it added that much extra. To add it later would’ve cost even more though so we went ahead. There is also the standard slot for a cheapy 1” filter if we ever needed it.

2 days for installation?
I don’t know the length of the install. I just spoke to a lady in their office to schedule and to make sure we had someone coming out yesterday to give us a freon charge to get us through the weekend (no charge). I didn’t think to ask how long it would take and she was probably distracted trying to get the other service scheduled before the end of the day.


I appreciate how supportive everyone is being about our choice. The thought of not having to worry my way through the hot part of the summer wondering if the A/C will finally fail THIS year is something I’m looking forward to.
 
  #25  
Old 05-28-05, 08:11 AM
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SalG,

1.The recommended evaporator coil for the XL19i AC condenser would be the TXC-S series sized for your unit. It is the Ultra high efficiency coil for R-22 refrig.

2.Honeywell makes Trane's premium line of thermostats so you should be OK here.

3.On the EAC, there are many negative opinions. I don't know. One of the regular HVAC posters on this forum mentions he takes out more electronic air cleaners than he installs. It may be helpful to you if other posters in this thread offer their opinion. I have a Trane 5" media filter cabinet(TFM) and while Trane says they are not as effective with microscopic dust, they don't clog up and have to be attended to like the EAC which I am told has to be cleaned at least monthly and possibly even more frequently. I would definitely cover this with your dealer and find out if the EAC is convertible back to a 5" filter.

 
  #26  
Old 05-28-05, 08:59 AM
SalG
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I thought I'd heard some negatives about the EAC but didn't find them before we ordered it. I guess we need to ponder that a bit and if we change our mind, see if we can change the order.

It sounds like the main drawback is that it requires so much more maintenance? The problem isn't with the filter itself being less effective or whatever, right?

We'll have to at least verify that we can use a "regular" filter if we decide the EAC is too much of a problem.

That part of the decision was kind of on the fly so I didn't include it in my postings.
 
  #27  
Old 05-28-05, 11:02 AM
SalG
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We talked to our rep and he said we can switch our order to the media filter, no problem. We think that is what we are going to do so as not to add the maintenance headache of the EAC.

Thanks once again for your input. You just saved us money and time with your wisdom.
 
  #28  
Old 05-28-05, 11:47 AM
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Location: Rochester, Minnesota
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Go with the Media filter, You'll be happy wiht it in the long run..

As for the T-stat, Trane does not have the Vision Pro version.. They just have the regular ones..

Just as long they get the 2 stage t-stat for the heating. you should be fine.. And the cycle per hour set right.


I think the VisionPro is much easier to use to program, and even when my mom looked at it, she's would like one some day.

Getting the 10 year parts/labor as well? I suggest it.
 
  #29  
Old 05-28-05, 01:10 PM
SalG
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We asked about the wiring of the thermostat and he immediately said something about it being for two stage so he knew what we were referring to it seemed. We also said there were comments about the Comfort-R and some setting with that. He said there is a switch to turn on and that they always do.

We have two choices on thermostats.

A touch screen type like this (which I think is what we are getting)
http://www.trane.com/Residential/Pro...grammable.aspx

or

A push button model instead of a touch screen. For the two-stage heat or cool, the model is XT302C. The online manual has this note:
"The XT300C, XT302C thermostats are manufactured for the Trane Company by Honeywell Inc. Specific features are unique to Trane and are only available on Trane models." So I guess that is what the rep was referring to in regards to one of theirs being Honeywell with the Trane name on it. http://www.trane.com/Residential/Pro...grammable.aspx


We did opt for the extended warranty. There are some things it doesn't cover but one or two covered visits easily pay the cost of the warranty so it would've been stupid not to get it as many have recommended.
 
  #30  
Old 05-28-05, 04:17 PM
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Ok, Cool, I'd go with the first t-stat that is the same thing as the VisionPro.

At the time when I got mine last fall, Trane didn't have that style, so I just settled with the VisionPro one.

I agree about the extended warrnity for 10 years.. Well worth it!

If you have Yahoo account, you can post pictures on that, and link us to that.
 
  #31  
Old 05-30-05, 06:22 PM
SalG
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I used to have a Yahoo account but don't know that I do anymore. I guess I could sign up for one. Do you mean a free email account? If I have one, what do I do next as far as being able to post the pictures and a link?

I took some "before" shots today. I have no idea what is of interest to those of you "in the know". If there are any pictures in particular, I need to know soon because they come to install at 7:30 a.m. tomorrow.

Our current A/C has been running great all weekend. But, it is still old, it is still expensive to run and the weather has been mild. I don't think it would've been wise to chance it and try to get through another summer. When the temps get over 100 deg for multiple days in a row, we would've been kicking ourselves for not taking the plunge as we are doing.
 
  #32  
Old 05-30-05, 06:50 PM
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Sign up for Yahoo if you have to.. and on the home page, look for "Photo" and follow that.


Here is mine http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?threadid=63291
 
  #33  
Old 05-30-05, 07:52 PM
SalG
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Old system

See if this works:

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/sal_g_...jbZsDB7JZ96oqw

Did I do this right?
 

Last edited by SalG; 09-28-05 at 01:11 PM.
  #34  
Old 05-30-05, 08:08 PM
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It works well.

Do you know if they are going to redo the Gas line? I would have it redone for the water heater.
 
  #35  
Old 05-30-05, 08:11 PM
SalG
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I don't know if they are planning on doing anything with the gas line. We are intending to have the water heater relocated in the near future if possible. Another big project in the works.

I added a picture of the info panel on the outside unit. Don't know if it was there yet when you looked. It would only be of interest if you have any interest in the details. I suppose the model numbers should give us a clue to the exact age if we could find that info somewhere.
 
  #36  
Old 05-31-05, 09:15 PM
SalG
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Talking New Trane Installed And Running

The guys arrived at 7:30 this morning and began our install. Everything seems to be in good running order except when the fan runs on high, there is a rattle in the heat exchange area (I think that is where he said he suspects it to be ). They are calling us in the morning to schedule another visit to get that fixed.

It has been running on low all evening. I have to open the closet to even know if it is on. The cool air I feel is so different than what we had before. I suspect that is the feel of reduced humidity?

We tried to mention everything that you all had suggested. I don't know if we covered it all but hopefully so. Some of your advice was technical so I don't even know if it is something we could look at ourselves to make sure it was done. The lead man on our install tried hard to seem completely knowledgeable. But, I don't think he knew as much as he thought or acted like he did. I felt like it was more an inexperience with some of this products details rather than the mechanics of the install, though. He did seem perfectly willing to consult his supervisor if need be which I appreciated. I suppose time will tell if all was done properly.

I posted pictures of the new unit. If there is anything else on it you would like to see, let me know and I'll try to accommodate.

Thank you all again for helping us make this choice and make it wisely. We appreciate it so much.
 
  #37  
Old 05-31-05, 09:51 PM
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Glad to hear it all went well.

Yeah, make sure they check into the rattel.

As for the dip switch settings, you'll have to take a look and see what is set at what..

Exp. 1 off, 2 on.. ect.. ect..

I am sure they have it set up right.. If you are able to post it, I'd like to see how they set it.

yes, the air will feel colder than your set up, and I just turned mine on today for the first time, and I noticed it as well.. I only ran it for 10 min, still to cool out.

I can't see in the pix how the t-stat was wired... He do the B from t-stat, and did the back light?

2-stage heating wired up?
 
  #38  
Old 06-01-05, 07:03 AM
SalG
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Are the dip switches 8 numbers across on two red plates?

If so, here is how they are set (looks like, with my older eyes, that up is on and down is off):
1- up, on
2- down, off
3- down, off
4- down, off

5- up, on
6- up, on
7- up, on
8- down, off

They ran another wire to the thermostat. I'm not sure what you are asking. I took more pictures and will try to get them loaded on the Yahoo site in a little while. I'm not sure if they will show you anything much though.
 
  #39  
Old 06-01-05, 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted by SalG
It has been running on low all evening. I have to open the closet to even know if it is on. The cool air I feel is so different than what we had before. I suspect that is the feel of reduced humidity?

The variable speed is the key to comfort,room to room temp, and quiet. People can not appreciate it until they have it.

Several questions when you have time.

1.What size XL19i AC and furnace did you purchase?
2.Did your dealer offer any written payback calculations and if so how long to recover your investment?
3.What was the age and type of your old system?
4.That was a very quick installation. How many people/techs were involved?
5.Was any modification to your ductwork made other than the transitions to supply and return?

 
  #40  
Old 06-01-05, 07:58 AM
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I am not able to tell if the settings are right for the dip switches if I know how many ton the A/C is, and BTU for the furnace.

Did you get a Rebate from Trane on this?? They have Rebates going on, and also from your power company as well?
 
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