outside unit not operating at all.....

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  #1  
Old 04-19-06, 07:22 AM
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outside unit not operating at all.....

I have a Goodman model #CPKE24-1AB. I just bought this house about 8 months ago and so I have no knowledge of this unit's history. The heat was fine all winter and when I turn the thermostat to a/c the fan will blow, but the unit outside does absolutely nothing. No clicking, no humming, nothing at all. I checked the capacitor and it appears to be fine. I couldn't find a starter relay on it. Any and all help would be greatly appreciated, I don't have the funds to be buying a new system and I don't believe my family will make it through the winter with no a/c. Thanks again.

Karl H. Becker IV
 
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  #2  
Old 04-19-06, 09:00 AM
DNT1
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why aint this darn thing workin

tick do you have a voltmeter and have some basic electrical skills?? First lets check the electrical panel to be sure breakers are on and that the outside disconnect is also on, double check the setting on the thermostat to be sure it is calling for cooling. If all good there pull the thermostat cover and check for voltage between red and white wires (R C) red and yellow (R Y) post results for further instruction.
 
  #3  
Old 04-19-06, 11:14 AM
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I flipped all my breakers off then back on. The disconnect is plugged in. The thermostat is set accordingly, I checked the wires you mentioned with my multimeter, R and C were good, but R and Y got nothing when a/c was set to on. If I set a/c off though I got a reading on R and Y.
 

Last edited by BluetickHound; 04-19-06 at 11:41 AM.
  #4  
Old 04-19-06, 12:31 PM
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Try at the tstat jump R to Y the outside unit should come on. R to G blower should come on. When you call for AC does contactor close in outside unit??? All 24V wires ok at unit??

ED
 
  #5  
Old 04-19-06, 12:58 PM
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I tried jumping the r and y to no avail. nothing happens outside at all when a/c is set to on. the wires appear to be fine in the system outside.
 
  #6  
Old 04-19-06, 04:00 PM
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tick, OK those readings look good at the thermostat. Thermostat is doing its job. Now next we will need to work with 240 volts live and this will take some CAUTION so do not attempt this unless you total confidence a man can be electrocuted and killed performing live circuit checks. If you are up to it do the following, kill power at the outside disconnect, remove the units service cover and expose the incoming high voltage wiring area you will see where the wiring goes to a box looking device. This is the contactor. This device uses a 24 volt electro magnetic coil at the base that when it is energized pulls the center section down and flows voltage to the AC compressor and condensor fan. Now lets carefully turn the power back on at the disconnect and check for 240 volts between the two main leads going to the contactor they should be marked L1 and L2. If you do have 240 volts there take a insulated screwdriver and push in the center section manually (be prepared as the compressor and condensor fan should immediatley start) if the compressor and condensor fan start and sound normal after a few seconds release the center section. Now what we want to do is check for 24 volts at the base of the contactor, you will see two small wires typically balck and a blue or something similar maybe two blacks coming in to the contactor, check with your volt meter between the two wires. You are looking to prove 24 volts there. If you have 24 volts there and the contactor is not pulling in, it is bad and must be replaced. If you do not have 24 volts at that point post back for further instruction. Note: when replacing the contactor it is always best to remove it and take to your favorite HVAC supply house for a exact match. Always make a hand sketch of ALL WIRING CONNECTIONS. There are several different configurations including different electro magnet voltage ratings/single double pole etc. Be sure to get the correct replacement part.
 

Last edited by DNT1; 04-19-06 at 04:12 PM.
  #7  
Old 04-19-06, 07:00 PM
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I tested the main leads and they read properly, I pushed in the center piece and the system fired up, everything sounded good with it. When I tested the coil I got nothing. I pushed in the center piece again and it stuck down and stayed on. If I need to replace the contactor, approximately how much are they?
 
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Old 04-19-06, 08:41 PM
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according to what you have but most are in the twenty to fifty dollar range
 
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Old 04-20-06, 03:28 AM
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Hey ya'll thanks alot. I appreciate all the help immensely.
 
  #10  
Old 07-16-06, 01:00 PM
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more trouble....

I finally got a new contactor for it.....I put it in and it still wasn't firing up when the thermo called for A/C. I also bought a new digital thermo, still nothing. I don't understand what the deal is now. Any ideas ya'll?
 
  #11  
Old 07-16-06, 01:25 PM
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meter?

If you have a volt meter .I would check the two wires going out to your condenser if you have 24 volts than i would see if you have any pressure controls in your unit . maybe your unit is out of gas and the low pressure contol is open ? If you don't have the low voltage to your condenser than i would start looking back at the furnace
 
  #12  
Old 07-16-06, 11:21 PM
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My Lennox HS18 stopped working today... just a couple weeks short of 20 years.

No sound from the unit when energized.

The Contacter engages when energized, although when I push hard on it I get some buzzing.

Does this look like a bad capacitor or bad Contacter?

I checked the glass fuses in the box and the main panel breaker is energized.

We had a power outage yesterday; all day I thought it was the power company's remote control box keeping the power off (the furnace fan runs properly).
 
  #13  
Old 07-16-06, 11:44 PM
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OTOH now that I actually pulled the glass fuse, I can see a burn on the side. Not visible from the top, which is hazy.

Yup, its indeed blown. Rummage rummage... packet of 30A time delay fuses right where I last saw it a decade or so ago!

So did it pop due to the power outage yesterday or is the AC drawing amps & maybe rotor locked... stay tuned.
 
  #14  
Old 07-17-06, 12:22 AM
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Yup. After a 15 minute delay for the power company's override to re-engage the power, the compressor sounds normal.
 
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Old 07-17-06, 04:33 PM
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I found there are 3 wires going into the compressor, one large red one, one large black one, and a yellow one. I tested all three of em in differant combinations, and got speratic readings below 24v. By gas, what do you mean? I have 2 valves on the outside of the unit. And what should I be looking for at the furnace?
 
  #16  
Old 07-17-06, 08:32 PM
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If the freon has leaked out, there might be a "low pressure switch" that turns off the electricity so you don't ruin the condenser.

The yellow wire should be the fan.

Since the same fan is used for A/C and for heat, both running thru the thermostat, you have to check all of them for problems.

Can you turn off the A/C and make just the fan run?
 
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Old 07-17-06, 10:47 PM
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BluetickHound I found there are 3 wires going into the compressor, one large red one, one large black one, and a yellow one. I tested all three of em in differant combinations, and got speratic readings below 24v. By gas, what do you mean? I have 2 valves on the outside of the unit. And what should I be looking for at the
I dont see how you got 24V off the compressor wires. Now what we want to know when calling for AC do you read 24V at the contactor?? Or if you push it in with a stick will the compressor and fan come on???

ED
 
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Old 07-18-06, 01:39 AM
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If I hold the contactor down they both will come on, and if I hold it long enough it will magnatize and hold it. The air coming out isn't cold though and after awhile it cuts off. I didn't read 24v off the wires on the contactor heading to the compressor.
 
  #19  
Old 07-18-06, 08:12 AM
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24 V would come in to make the contactor pull in. Out of the contactor to the compressor and fan you will have 220V
If the fan and the compressor is running then you should have a cold big cooper line and a warm little copper line. If not you can be low on freon then.

ED
 
  #20  
Old 07-18-06, 04:45 PM
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I don't mean to hijack this thread, but I'm having the exact same problem with my heat pump. Although I don't have 24v going to the contactor. Is there something else I should be checking? I'm very new to heating and air and especially to heat pumps. I was hoping it was only the contactor, but according to what I've read here, it may be something else. Where else should I be checking to find out what's wrong? Thanks so much for all the information that this site provides.
 
  #21  
Old 07-18-06, 06:06 PM
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I forgot to mention that when I press in the center of the contactor that it does start up and cool if I hold it in long enough. It does not however magnatize itself and hold. I have to hold it in for however long necessary to start cooling. I'm not sure where to go from here.
 
  #22  
Old 07-18-06, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by ToolUser
If the freon has leaked out, there might be a "low pressure switch" that turns off the electricity so you don't ruin the condenser.

The yellow wire should be the fan.

Since the same fan is used for A/C and for heat, both running thru the thermostat, you have to check all of them for problems.

Can you turn off the A/C and make just the fan run?
Yes, I can turn on the fan by it's self, and the heat works fine, but when it calls for a/c all I get is fan.
 
  #23  
Old 07-18-06, 07:50 PM
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The thermostat sends 24v to the contacter in order to energize the coil, which pulls the high voltage contacts together to energize the compressor.

Determine why you aren't getting 24v between thermostat & contacter.
 
  #24  
Old 07-18-06, 09:42 PM
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Do you read 24V on the small wires there at the contactor. If so get a new contactor

ED
 
  #25  
Old 07-19-06, 04:51 AM
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Originally Posted by ToolUser
The thermostat sends 24v to the contacter in order to energize the coil, which pulls the high voltage contacts together to energize the compressor.

Determine why you aren't getting 24v between thermostat & contacter.
Is there some place I should start to determine this? I'm pretty good when it comes to electrical, but I don't know much about heating and air, so any direction you could give would be greatly appreciated. BTW, my furnace fan is running, so I'm not sure if it's a problem between the tstat and furnace or the furnace and outside unit.
 
  #26  
Old 07-19-06, 04:55 AM
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If you put your fan switch at the stat in the "on" position does it come on ?

If so put it in cool mode and check the 2 low voltage wires in the outdoor unit where they come into the unit from the house. Do you have 24v there ?
 
  #27  
Old 07-19-06, 12:02 PM
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I do not have 24v coming into the contactor when my tstat is set to cool mode. When I put the tstat to turn the fan on, it does come on, but the outside unit does not come on. Where else should I check for the 24v? The tstat or furnace or??? Thanks for all the help so far.
 
  #28  
Old 07-19-06, 12:37 PM
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Id go to the furnace first now. Find the 2 wires that go to the outside unit. Do you have 24V there when the stat calls for cool????? The outside unit doesnt come on when you put the stat to fan on. just the inside fan is all.

ED
 
  #29  
Old 07-19-06, 03:33 PM
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Now I'm at a loss. I've checked the furnace and I have 24v there. I checked the tstat and I have 24v there also. I'm not sure where to go from here. There was only one area in my furnace that listed a 24v clip and that is what I tested. I couldn't really find anything else that resembled something to be tested. I tested my tstat for every wire and they're all 24v. My air has worked in the past as recently as last week, so I'm not sure where to go from here. Maybe it's time to call in the pros. Thanks again for all the help.
 
  #30  
Old 07-19-06, 04:45 PM
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Can you host a picture with a link of the electrical area in the outdoor unit. Photobucket is one that offers hosting pics for free.

You need to check for 24 volts wherever the 2 wires from the house 1st land in the outdoor unit. If you don't have it there then go to the air handler and check those same 2 wires wherever they land in there. If you have 24v in there then trace your wires all the way outside and make sure there not broke. They get cut by weed whackers alll the time.
 
  #31  
Old 07-19-06, 05:35 PM
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I don't think my wire got cut by the weed whacker. The wires come from the crawl space directly to the air conditioner unit. I traced the wires and I can't find anything out of the ordinary. I'm thinking this may end up being a job for some pros. I don't know what else to do. I can take some pictures of the wiring from each of the unit and the furnace and try to post a link to see what you all think. I'll try to do that in the next hour or two. Thanks again for all your advice.
 
  #32  
Old 07-20-06, 04:45 AM
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I wasn't able to get the pictures posted last night. My internet at home was out. I have two units. My upstairs unit is working fine, so I tested the wires inside both units to compare. Underneath the contactor on the upstairs unit I have 24v. I tested the same two wires on the downstairs unit and nothing. On the furnace I tested the only place I could find that looked like the right wires. It was a small black box with a sticker on it that had 24v and Com written on it. There was a red wire connected to the 24v connecter from my tstat. On my tstat I tested the red wire against all the other wires in my tstat and I have 24v there also. My air worked just last week, so I'm not sure where something could have gone wrong with the wiring, although when my air started to go out, it was working sporadically. It would run for a few hours and stop for no reason and then it would come back on hours later. Maybe these symptoms can help someone on here diagnose it a little bit better. Thanks so much.
 
  #33  
Old 07-20-06, 08:02 AM
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Adidas: Here is something you haven't tried. Take the t-stat off the wall and jump "R+Y+G" and see if it fires up. If so your stat is bad.
 
  #34  
Old 07-20-06, 03:03 PM
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I jumped the three wires. The inside fan fired up, but the outside unit didn't. My tstat couldn't be more than 6 months old. It's digital unit by Honeywell.
 
  #35  
Old 07-20-06, 05:37 PM
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I've ruled out my contactor. I traded it with the one from my other unit. It still works like it should. I'm back to a wiring issue. Here is a link to a couple of pics of the inside by the contactor and one of the furnace wiring. You can't see it real well, but there's a little black box near the center of the furnace wiring and that's where I was reading 24v. Thanks again.http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/adidas...0msNFBVhNW2r1I
 
  #36  
Old 07-20-06, 06:53 PM
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I've also ruled out the tstat. I took the one from upstairs and wired it up downstairs, but I still have the same symptoms. I think I'm done messing with this. It's time to break open the wallet. Thanks for all the help. I've learned a lot.
 
  #37  
Old 07-20-06, 07:11 PM
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I guess I should told you so you wouldn't have swapped stats. Jumping those stat wires ruled out the stat.

The pictures help. If your 2 outdoor units are the same, try swapping the pc board. That is probably your culprate.
 
  #38  
Old 07-21-06, 04:27 AM
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That's okay, it didn't take that long. What all is involved in swaping those boards? It doesn't look like they screw in, but instead have plastic clips.
 
  #39  
Old 07-23-06, 09:05 AM
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did you have any luck? my unit looks the sae as yours and i am having same problem. i think my pc board is not relaying the 24v. wondering if you found a place to get replacement pc boards and how much $?
 
  #40  
Old 07-24-06, 04:35 AM
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I didn't get around to swapping out the pc boards this weekend, but not it seems my furnace fan is not running anymore either. I set the thermo to fan on instead of auto, but nothing happens. I'll have to take another look at it when I get home today. I've scheduled someone to come out tomorrow to have a look at it.
 
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