GE ECM Programmable Motor

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  #41  
Old 08-13-09, 10:03 AM
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Dan,

I can repair the modules. But i would like to see a picture to know what the damage isfor myself. It may be damaged on the control board too, which is also repairable but takes some work.

It's a shame what has happened to electronics repair industry. All that is left are tech's who follow line by line repair manuals. If it is not in the manual then they can't fix it. 25 years ago an electronic repair tech understood how a device operated by tracing circuits. Not so anymore. It's all about $$$

If it's just a cap or passive component on the power supply i could fix it for $10 + parts, you pay shipping.

I'm not fond of fixing the controller under the "goop" though it can be done. This is why i've been working on a general purpose ECM controller. A good HVAC tech should be able to set up the ramp up/down, and CFM for each mode (heat,cool,fan, dehumid, etc)

Though it seems that the HVAC repair tech's are following the same line painted by the electronic techs years ago.. that is right off a cliff.

anyone may contact me directly. i use gmail and the account is
watkinsproduct. Sadly the obfuscation is required to keep the spam low.
(this is a repost. last attempt got a database error)
 
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  #42  
Old 08-17-09, 06:34 AM
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Thumbs up Replacement option

Have you checked Industrial Parts ?
 
  #43  
Old 08-25-09, 01:04 PM
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Thanks to all on this thread.. After finding a 'hot' house last week on my return home diagnosed the blower was kaput. and asked a 'pro' to come in the fix the carrier 8000 . Which he could not, and asked for CDN1200 to replace(1/2 HP). Well i quickly became a 'internet expert' thanks to your thread and found the thermistor open circuit. (no power out of the top board to the 'potted section' . Last night ordered the digikey part ST1R020B (1 ohm 20 amp NTC) and got it this morning and now im cool. BTW the top board in the ECM gives 330Volt DC to the bottom potted section on the red and black wires.
When running at Low the current draw is less than 1 amp AC and the mid speed the current draw is 1.7 Amps. All in all i spent 130 dollars most of which paid for a 'pro' to confirm the schematic on the back of the door was correct. http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h1...eersmiley1.gif
 
  #44  
Old 08-26-09, 10:45 AM
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Control Speed

I wsih to control the speed of this motor. What pine I should connect to do this? And what composante I could use, with what current?
 
  #45  
Old 08-30-09, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Wilfrid View Post
I wsih to control the speed of this motor. What pine I should connect to do this? And what composante I could use, with what current?
I provided the pinout of the module which is about as strait forward as it gets. If the naming convention is confusing i suggest studying ASHRAE wiring codes and controls.
 
  #46  
Old 08-31-09, 06:03 AM
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sorry started new thred so we do not mix then up
 

Last edited by asm660; 08-31-09 at 08:50 AM. Reason: new thred
  #47  
Old 09-01-09, 08:16 PM
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iteration69 I am pretty proficient with most things electrical but this one is out of my league. I sent you an email regarding repairing an ECM 1hp motor. just in case you don't get the email I thought I would post here. mine is a little out of the norm compared to the usual failures. (it went swimming) if it werent I would give it a go on my own with your expert advice of course. since it seems you're pretty sharp on these motors.

Im thinking you could make a nice little side line business repairing these things. especially when consumers find out that their money saving variable speed furnace is going to cost more to fix than it saves them. isn't technology great? Don't get me wrong I'm a tech geek for sure. but the whole black box thing GE has going on is a bit over the edge for my taste. I really dislike being held at gun point just for a repair part. Ok I'm done venting. anyway please get back to me on my inquiry. thanks.
 
  #48  
Old 09-10-09, 08:12 AM
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Anyone know a site I could get a new control module from?

This has been very informative and good future info, unfortunately the back of my board has no burn marks. (Someone mentioned the problem being under the "goop") I had one replaced on another unit a while back and it cost nearly $500 for just the control module, I am hoping to find it for far less. Thanks
 
  #49  
Old 10-09-09, 09:54 AM
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Ok so I know this thread is kinda old but I've been having some problems with my GE ECM 2.3 3/4 hp motor in my air handler unit. The unit is a Trane TWE049E13FB2. An outdated one at that. Motor intermittently turns CW an inch or two then tries to turn CCW another inch or two. Repairman said it could be the module or motor and/or recommended we get a new a/c system. Quoted the module at $1000. I do not have money that. Took the module out to look at the thermistor this morning since a lot of people have had trouble with that but no signs of a charred or burnt thermistor. Any advice?
 
  #50  
Old 10-09-09, 05:17 PM
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Surplus city liquidators has some ecm modules at attractive prices. This search shows all references to ecm. At the bottom of the list you'll find some modules. But be aware of their no return policy.


https://surpluscityliquidators.com/search//ecm/all

Good luck
 
  #51  
Old 10-10-09, 04:33 AM
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Originally Posted by wearetheromans8 View Post
Ok so I know this thread is kinda old but I've been having some problems with my GE ECM 2.3 3/4 hp motor in my air handler unit. The unit is a Trane TWE049E13FB2. An outdated one at that. Motor intermittently turns CW an inch or two then tries to turn CCW another inch or two. Repairman said it could be the module or motor and/or recommended we get a new a/c system. Quoted the module at $1000. I do not have money that. Took the module out to look at the thermistor this morning since a lot of people have had trouble with that but no signs of a charred or burnt thermistor. Any advice?
if it is moving a inch each way it is probably the motor if you removed the module you need to ohm the motor and check the bearings
 
  #52  
Old 10-12-09, 07:23 PM
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so i looked on surpluscity and they have a rep 3/4hp motor but it spins CW and the label on mine says CCW. Does it matter which way it spins?
 
  #53  
Old 10-14-09, 06:53 PM
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Yes , Direction does matter, but it is programmable on this 2.3 motor. I'd see if there is tech support @
GE Commercial Motors By Regal-Beloit
1946 West Cook Road
Fort Wayne, Indiana 46818
Phone (260) 416-5400
 
  #54  
Old 10-15-09, 05:36 PM
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Being programmable, I'd expect the air handler circuit board to control the rotation direction. Maybe one of the moderators could contact Trane for you.
 
  #55  
Old 11-06-09, 03:10 PM
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Exclamation MOVS are our friends...

These motors aren't stepper motors, they are polyphase ac motors. So, they are driven by a controller capable of converting 120/220v 60Hz to some other voltage and frequency in order to run the motor. GUESS WHAT !? If you HAD to use a CW controller as a replacement for one that is CCW, or vice versa, you can switch any two, but only exactly two, wires on a three phase motor and it will spin backwards. I suggest doing it halfway between the connector and the leads close to the motor. Make sure you use only as much overlap and solder well, using electrical tape or shrink wrap if you have it. The very large pdf about the ECM motors and my furnace series in particular mentions a resistance test of the motor itself. Disconnect the leads from the controller and the motor, and test for a low (about 5.1 ohms in my 1hp motor) resistance from each wire to the other two. Red-Black Black-Green and Green-Red. If there is a major difference among them, or there is continuity from and of those three to the motors case(ground) then the motor wiring is most likely burned. I could not find a controller in my rushed search for the exact (amana) part number, and did find GE ECM 2.3 'endbells' as the HVAC people like to call them, but I DID happen upon this link for the Thermistor. Technical Service Tools: ECM Motor Repair Kit I paid extra for 2 day shipping and once I got it installed my furnace now works. Make sure that if you replace this part, and the PCB trace is fried, you may have to use a messy-looking bit of seemingly extra solder to make up for the fact that the printed circuit trace is blown. It works... The part is somewhat smaller, but it works. They also sell an inline kit with a surge protector for the whole controller that plugs into it inline with the external connector. linked to here: Technical Service Tools: ECM Motor Protector I do not work for them, nor do I make any profit from this. In fact, I am unemployed. The local electric company is advertising a unit that plugs in behind your electric meter that suppresses electric spikes and surges. I suspect it only contains very large MOV (metal oxide varistors) that simply are the opposite of a fuse. You can get them yourself without having to rent them, but I dont know where. To install it, you will have to let them watch you. Fuses blow and protect against current spikes, you can tell when they go, the protected object doesn't work again until you replace the fuse. On the other hand MOV's and similar devices protect against not heat, necessarily, but excess Voltage. When a MOV blows in a power strip you may not even know it, unless it's a fancy one that incorporates sense circuitry and has a display LED. The end result of them absorbing that excess voltage is they become hot, and sometimes burn out, or even fry things around them, IC's and circuit boards. I suspect GE knows this and makes a bit of extra spending money this way. A MOV is rated in several ways, the limiting voltage that they protect and the power they are able to absorb without being destroyed. Bigger is better and does little to affect a power circuit when one is much larger or smaller than needed, the problem is that when one absorbs enough extra voltage long enough to make a lot of excess heat, where does the heat go when it's too much for the device to stay intact? It roasts it's neighbors. When mine blew out, it was hot enough to cause the pcb trace to be destroyed under the MOV. Radio shack used to sell movs capable of protecting 120V devices and also tiny red ones for 5v DC devices. I can't imagine how sensitive they are, but would make cheap insurance if a handfull of the 120V ones were installed across the lines of the ac input to the furnace. The electric company has a very large insurance coverage claim limit if you use their device, but it has the drawback that you have to Rent it from them essentially. NOTE! the electric company also has a wicked/evil plan to install for a one time refund of 35 or 70 bucks to you, if you allow them to install a radio controlled externally mounted box on your external AC unit. With this unit they can remotely shut down your airconditioner (the compressor /fan only??) for an hour at a time, (or more for more money to you up front), so they can avoid having rolling blackouts like they do in california ( they claim). I'm all for keeping my Air off and using a programmable thermostat, but to allow the Electric company to do this to my HVAC equipment sounds like madness EVEN if I did allow them to install the Whole House Surge Protector. If you cut off the compressor, it makes a surge, any device that uses coils of wire is an inductor, and everyone who has enjoyed using a joy-buzzer electric handshake shocker, or the deck of cards shocker has experienced first hand what the results of a 1.5v battery can do when combined with powering and unpowering an inductor. Zap! So how do they plan on protecting my AC with the whole house protector from their rolling AC blackout device? They CANT! don't do it. Id rather have them have a remote half hour shutdown and locking of my fridge!! My amana furnace's motor controller endbell has been replaced once, in 2005 when the furnace was 4 years old, and again it burned out in 2009. I'm glad it was under warranty they first time, but this year it was going to cost me 775 bucks unless I was able to repair it myself. I was considering a relay and normal motor but I took a chance and it worked. The typical instance of burning out these units it they are running when you have a power failure. There is even the possibility that it happens during a brownout. How can LOW voltage mess things up? It's not the voltage it wants, and it runs the fan using power. If the voltage is low, the current goes up on a controlled power circuit. I've seen machine tools die a slow death when running on 208 when they wanted 220. There is something called a buck/boost transformer that can help with that somewhat. Some machine tools have a lowered maximum speed setting if you KNOW it has a weak voltage supply. Once I ran a machine that kept blowing it's circuit breakers 3phase 440 20Amp breaker, and then I looked at the machine's specs and it wanted a 30 amp supply. I told my boss he could get more than 30% more work out of his machine if he got an electrician to upgrade the wires/breaker because the machine had cut slower. Drilling a 2.5 inch hole takes a lot of current. When the machine shuts off because the breaker throws, it can break the drill insert, ruin a part, hurt someone, or break a $200 drill body, and generally take time to start the circus all over again. I left that job for my previous one where I was missed... If your MOV is crispy, it's probably a good chance that the kit I mentioned will fix it. If you can't solder well, take it to a TV repair shop and it will still cost you less than a new controller. a 15watt or soldering iron wont be powerful enough... When people have to buy a new controller, I think they should get to keep the burned one, so it can be repaired later, and use THAT repaired one when ( not if...) the new one burns out, too. You can keep your old tires if you want, cant you? I always have the best one mounted on a fullsize spare rim. If you don't want your old controllers, send them to me, and when I get some properly sized MOV's cheap, I'll have at them and let you know if it's working again. Shipping is cheap compared to a new unit. Good luck.
 
  #56  
Old 11-08-09, 03:44 PM
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fan motor

with all the hassle from these motors, why don't you have a standard PSC motor installed? The rocking of those type motors is normal . I read this in the RSES magazine (JAN 07). The industry was replacing 40% of these motors that were OK . As stated by others earlier, if the HVAC guy has a fan motor not working and has line voltage he isn't going to take it apart to find out why, he will remove the bad part and replace it with a working part, your paying by the hour remember...as stated earlier, we don't carry soldering irons... I do only because I remove resistors and solder them back in when testing start caps....I know of no one else that carries one though... The prices on a Carrier motor is up near the 1K area for the trade prices....Retail is even higher....And that is for a 1HP 3 phase motor....nothing fancy...one speed.
 

Last edited by hvac01453; 11-08-09 at 04:00 PM.
  #57  
Old 11-09-09, 08:54 PM
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moving an inch one way and then the other is a classic sign of a bad module or defunct eeprom ( this is bad module for most people).Though bad motor connectors can give similiar but very different results.

Erik T,
Have you looked at the drive waveform on a scope? It is not sinusoidal and not 60hz.therefor it is not polyphase. Polyphase was invented by tesla using sinusoidal waves at a fundamental frequency of 60hz. There was a big argument regarding the very definition when Westinghouse engineers tried to change the frequency in the early 1900's. But Tesla won that debate and 60hz 120 degree has been the definition ever since. If there were sinusoidal drive waves i would tend to agree with polyphase claim. But this is not the case.

The ECM module uses a dedicated motor control IC with integrated electronic commutation state machine, not a DSP like some other motor controllers. It uses inductive feedback and drive current sense, it is more so a big stepper than anything. Albeit very large steps.The fact that i can slow down the clock from the mcu to the motor control IC while shunting the feedback and effectively micro-stepping the motor is the greatest proof of a stepper.

All the programming is stored on a standard serial eeprom. It is an 8 pin DIP chip, 93C46. The only 8 pin chip inside the module.

You can actually swap eeproms from different modules to change the way they work. Ramp up, down, dehid, rpm feedback, loop adjust. All this is stored in the eeprom.
They are easy to read, and easy to modify. If i knew i would not get hunted down for sharing what i have found on their format. I'd share and eeprom dump. But due to the possibility of implied copyright i will refrain.

-BUT-
This is how you can change the settings of a module. Simply emulate the eeprom using a standard micro-controller. The ecm module uses a 78L05 regulator so you have to be careful on the power consumption of the mcu.

If you have experience with micro controllers then simply write an SPI eeprom emulator. Rip the factory eeprom and load it to flash memory for the virtual eeprom base. Use the eeprom address as a read flag and when certain addresses are fetched change tables for tinkering purposes. The controllers seems to fetch different parameters each time the mode of the motor is changed, IE fan, heat, Ac,these all instruct the mcu to fetch different program data from the serial eeprom.

With that said and a little tinkering inovation you should be able to reprogram your module for about 50 cents (assuming you have tools to program the microcontroller)

Think attiny13 running with internal RC oscillator. It's fast enough, trust me
 
  #58  
Old 11-10-09, 09:44 AM
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Smile Heat

In need of heat, I haven't used any of my three scopes on the motor leads. I will tho, and it's my opinion that it IS polyphase ac, but of course not 60hz or necessarily a multiple of that. It starts out at a low frequency probably, and then ramps up to whatever the setpoint frequency is, based on settings in that little nasty eprom. <crlf> I have an eprom programmer, with a micro controller option daughterboard, but as I got it in the early 90's I need a new one instead of hardwiring adapters. Serial eproms are much nicer that a 40pin dip with registered addressing latches etc. I bet if someone bought one of these service tools that allowed adjusting these motor controllers, they could post the values. It would most likely NOT be a violation of anything that GE would worry about, such as copyrights or infotech laws, but the companies that use these for their furnaces might think so. Wrongly so, if the few handfuls of values in the controllers are changed, they work for different people. People will still be buying the controller, not reengineering them and making new ones for themselves. If only people could buy the proper GE ECM module as far as horsepower and which of the three basic revision versions there are, it would be a warmer fuzzier place. Epecially if they would post what settings different furnaces needed. A high tech service tech can actually buy a device to adjust these screwy things from <CRLF> Technical Service Tools: Professional tools and instruments for HVAC/R service technicians <CRLF> I did consider using a split phase capacitor start single speed motor from dayton electric or baldor or someone in the grainger catalog but I agreed to the service guy coming back in about a week to install a new controller, and had only a day to repair it with the kit from the website listed above to repair it. I did it and called them off, telling them I fixed it myself and only had to pay for the original service call. Next time it goes out, I'll already have a motor and relay set to use in case I can't repair the controller.. <CRLF> I'll let you know what my scope looks like on this controller later sometime. If they want to control the power efficiently, they will probably use something like PWM pulses in their controller to sort of emulate frequency adjustable threephase, using less power once the motor is up to speed. Wiki page on electric motors is huge and pretty cool. PDF on these controllers<CRLF> http://www.cozyparts.com/Lennox-Part...ng%20guide.pdf <CRLF> I had also thought about using a PSC motor driving a three phase generator to power my working furnace motor, but not having one handy I didn't. Would prolly work, but if I couldn't control the frequency, why bother? Someone needs to make a replacement controller using some big nasty IFGETs and a pic microcontroller. Even if the thing would cost 90% the price of a replacement endbell, I think people would go for it. Especially if it used parts that people could get at radio shack, other than the pic which isnt likely to blow out. <CRLF> Yeah it's true that the original probably uses feedback sensing of the speed in between the PWM pulses, but a simple stupid magnet and hall-effect sensor would give the replacement controller feedback as far as speed, but not as instantaneously as the original. It's ridiculous to buy a controller every four years, as mine seems to last. I bought the replacement Thermistor ( actually its probably a MOV) and I'm happy to have heat. We lasted the whole summer without the AC working and I waited a long time to fix the furnace. (selling the previous house still). Beer 4U2
 
  #59  
Old 11-16-09, 10:57 PM
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Erik T,

All the information i have presented was learned by reverse engineering the ECM module.

I built an evalution platform to test the module while it in operation. I also added a socket for the serial eeprom so that i can evaluate different various settings.

There is no need to buy one of those speed controllers. All they do is tap the feedback line on the module. Any ECM motor is adjustable between programmed points using the sense line on the module. Just use the RPM output with an op-amp to adjust the speed.

I have the wiring diagram for the module and some pictures of various boards here:
Pictures by iteration69 - Photobucket
The majority of my reverse engineering is embedded electronics and modication. That is typically HVAC and Automotive.
The copyright claim is very valid. Regal Beloit (the manufacturer, not the designer) bought the ECM technology from GE. So the question is, would Regal Beloit be upset with sharing eeprom data. I believe they would. They have ventured interests to protect the OEM programmers of the module. These programmers are very expensive and the last i heard they are still issued on subscription basis. The last thing they want is an easy way for technicians to read and share eeprom data. As this would allow a single module to be used in multiple applications regardless of branding.

I asked you about the scope for a reason. I've already scoped drive waveforms and also checked out the mcu, motor control, and IGBT drivers on the logica analyzer.

If you do attempt to attach any equipment to the module beware that the power supply is not isolated. Common grounds will present a high voltage potential on the ground of the equipment which will ultimately let the smoke out of something if you are not careful.

I've been focusing on tinkering with an external interface to adjust a modified module. This is more use in the reverse engineering side than it is an actual product.

I do agree that a low cost replacement module can and should be built. You are right, these high priced modules are ridiculous.

I'm willing to help if there is a group buy in or the like. We could make an open hardware design for replacements.
 
  #60  
Old 12-02-09, 06:57 AM
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Hello all. Fantastic thread! I'm writing to see if anyone might know what would cause the connector at the end of the wire harness where it attaches to the ECM on a GE 1hp motor to melt. The unit was working fine and on one of the coldest days of the year so far here in El Paso, Texas the motor stopped functioning. Upon uncovering the ECM I noticed this 3 wire connector was blackened between two of the wires and the black potting material inside the ECM that surrounds the three prongs where this connector attaches to was liquified from the heat as well. Any suggestions? Thanks in advance.
 
  #61  
Old 12-02-09, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by henryjr View Post
Hello all. Fantastic thread! I'm writing to see if anyone might know what would cause the connector at the end of the wire harness where it attaches to the ECM on a GE 1hp motor to melt. The unit was working fine and on one of the coldest days of the year so far here in El Paso, Texas the motor stopped functioning. Upon uncovering the ECM I noticed this 3 wire connector was blackened between two of the wires and the black potting material inside the ECM that surrounds the three prongs where this connector attaches to was liquified from the heat as well. Any suggestions? Thanks in advance.
Here are some images of the ECM board showing darker-colored solder right under the thermistor (SG379), charred cable connector and charred connector in potting material. Could a bad thermistor have led to the connectors overheating? Thanks.



 
  #62  
Old 12-10-09, 08:26 AM
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ECM Control Board

Your motor was obviously overheated and the termal protector failed to cut off the power supply to the motor.

I am curious to know what the black potting material they use for this board. I want to buy some so that I could re-pot the board after I repair the board myself.

Thanks


Originally Posted by henryjr View Post
Hello all. Fantastic thread! I'm writing to see if anyone might know what would cause the connector at the end of the wire harness where it attaches to the ECM on a GE 1hp motor to melt. The unit was working fine and on one of the coldest days of the year so far here in El Paso, Texas the motor stopped functioning. Upon uncovering the ECM I noticed this 3 wire connector was blackened between two of the wires and the black potting material inside the ECM that surrounds the three prongs where this connector attaches to was liquified from the heat as well. Any suggestions? Thanks in advance.
 
  #63  
Old 12-15-09, 09:28 PM
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henryjr-

I'd guess that the connector was lose. Sometimes the sealing pour interfers with the latching of the connector. It gets lose, resistance goes high, it heats oftens drawing the solder up the pins(if you tear it down you may see the solder-wicking action)

edkrone -
i don't know exactly what they use for potting. I personally use liquid tape or plastic dip- plastic dip is basically thinned down liquid tape.

You will find that the plastic dip favors the qualities of plastic more so than rubber, but it works.
 
  #64  
Old 12-19-09, 04:38 PM
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Why the complaints?


You've got version 1.0 of the latest high tech stuff. Of course it's high priced and prone to failure!

But it's GREEN! Pay the $1000 and think about how virtuous you are.
 
  #65  
Old 12-21-09, 05:55 AM
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Originally Posted by SeattlePioneer View Post
Why the complaints?


You've got version 1.0 of the latest high tech stuff. Of course it's high priced and prone to failure!

But it's GREEN! Pay the $1000 and think about how virtuous you are.

Yep. Efficiency has a price, both short and long term. These days, the idea of paying a little more up front and then getting a free ride, is out the window.

I'm waiting for the day when we will be expected to replace the engine in our cars every year. You know, a new engine is .01% cleaner and better for the environment.
 
  #66  
Old 12-21-09, 06:38 PM
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Guys,

I am a newbie and I have been browsing around for the past couple of days. It seems I have the same problem. I have a furnace with one of these variable speed blower motors.

It is a GE unit 3/4HP with ECM 2.3

My story is this. I paid $69 for local service techs to come to my house and tell me what I already knew (blower motor not working). Ok, not that big of a deal, and you have to pay for confirmation sometimes so you can make a good decision.

Well, this was last Friday and it was one of the coldest days in NC this year and we also had a little "snow" storm. Ironically the blower quit on this cold day when I imagine the demand was spiked. Well, they said they needed to replace the motor, but because it was rare, it wouldn't be until Monday until they could get one. Today, I called the service company and they priced out what I need and quoted me roughly $850 to complete the chore parts and labor. I was shocked! I mentioned that my house was only 2 years old and that I had actually paid about $1,500 more for my particular furnace unit because it was top of the line. She said she would get back to me. Well, she called back and said that my motor is covered under the manufacturers warranty and I was relieved! However, she then said my new total was $560 to procure the part and then install! Now, I am thinking I am being ripped off. I was cordial, but I said that I was going to have to call around. When I got off the phone with her, I went up to my unit and pulled the blower unit out in about 15 minutes and then proceeded to disconnect the module. Having looked on google and seeing images, I confirmed what I was seeing as common failure mode. I then called back the company asking for an explanation of what the $560 was for if the motor unit was free. She proceeded to tell me that it covers PO for the part (office paperwork) as well as book time for the service call. I asked how much time did the book call for and she looked it up and said 3.5 hours. I did not tell her that I had pulled the part in 20 minutes and I took my time. She then proceeded to explain the time. She said that it alloted time for the technicians to drive to the local distributor and pick up the part and then to drive back to my residence and install it and then drive back to the shop. I asked if it also called for 2 technicians, and she said "no", only 1. I am a bit emotional, but stayed very professional and she was very nice. We ended the conversation with her telling me that she would call the manufacturer of the part and see if they will cover any of the labor portion of the replacement.

Now, I am an engineer, but I was the chemical type. I have spent some time on this site and general google returns, but I am not sure what the "thermister" part looks like. I can read all the numbers on my board, but do not see the number mentioned above. Also, my burn marks look to be under the leads of the thin black round thing and not the square white rectangle thing. Also, I have slight blackening under what I believe is a capacitor on the board (the big round cylindrical thing).

My gas logs are struggling to keep up, any advice on what I should try? Should I post some pictures?
 
  #67  
Old 12-21-09, 07:19 PM
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Here are some pictures of my issue described below.

Here is my particular module:


Here are my burn locations:

and

and this is the one under the capacitor (I think it is a capacitor)


In the first 2 pics, the burn marks are under this round thing


The other burn mark is under this cylindrical capacitor


Thanks for your help.
 
  #68  
Old 12-22-09, 01:37 PM
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Well, I figured out what the thermistor is and after more thorough reading of this post, I went ahead and ordered 2 of them from http://www.newark.com. Here is a picture of the thermistor for the novices such as myself.

http://www.newark.com/productimages/...rd/4533515.jpg

I sure hope this works.

Oh, the lady from the local service company called and said that she could not get the manufacturer (Armstrong) to help out on the labor charge for replacing the motor, so the total to change out the warranty motor was going to still be $560.
 

Last edited by Learner; 12-22-09 at 01:43 PM. Reason: links
  #69  
Old 12-22-09, 04:56 PM
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Good news, the motor is working! Thanks to this thread and google, I mustered up the courage to jumper across the thermistor and viola! The new thermistors should be here on Christmas Eve, so I will do a proper fix when they arrive.

It started out at $850, then to $560, and in the end it will have cost around $15! Thanks for all the knowledgeable people who have covered this issue in the past!

Merry Christmas!
 
  #70  
Old 01-23-10, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by joe1234 View Post
What a great thread and forum this is.

There are so many HVAC contractors that are so corrupt! Charging $1,000.00 for something that can be fixed for around 25 bucks.

No wonder the HVAC contractors at the HVAV talk site prohibit any talk of $dollars$ or how to fix things.

The whole HVAC industry is to freaking corrupt in order to inflate and maintain prices artificially high.
My cost on a 1 hp ECM motor is $487, plus shipping and tax, I can buy the ECM module for $290.

Installing an ECM motor for $1,000 is cheap considering how much the parts cost.

BTW I would be more than $1,000 to replace the motor, I don't charge for parts, they are FREE, what you are paying me for is the knowledge of what part needs to be replaed, and my contractors license, that allows me to buy the parts.

An A/C tech is not an electronics technician, but this is nice to know how to repair these motors.

BTW, what do you do to earn a living?
 
  #71  
Old 01-30-10, 09:23 PM
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Blower motor varying in speed making wind storm noises

Hello, All
I have a GE programmable ECM motor installed on a Carrier unit.
Model: 5SME39HL0193

For some reason or another all of a sudden the blower motor started blowing air through the vents sounding as if there was a wind storm in continuous change of wind speeds noises.
The strange thing is that when I stand and listen to the motor running it does not really sound like it is varying in RPMs.
I took the module out and inspected for any visual defects and couldn't find any.
Has anyone ever encountered this problem and if so, how can I resolve this issue without having to purchase the motor and module together.
Or could the problem be somewhere else ?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

David
San Antonio, Texas
 
  #72  
Old 01-31-10, 12:22 AM
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Check the inlet air filters. Under some conditions a choked air filter may cause the airflow to do what you describe.
 
  #73  
Old 02-02-10, 10:11 PM
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Help! faulty motor or module (GE ECM 2.3)

Originally Posted by mrairflow View Post
Originally Posted by wearetheromans8 View Post
OGE ECM 2.3 3/4 hp motor in my air handler unit. The unit is a Trane TWE049E13FB2. Motor intermittently turns CW an inch or two then tries to turn CCW another inch or two.
-----------------------------------------------
if it is moving a inch each way it is probably the motor if you removed the module you need to ohm the motor and check the bearings

Ok guys; my issue is identical to this. The board in the controller looks good, but motor windings are reading

4.15 Ohm Rd-Blu, 4.15 Ohm Blu - Bk BUT 1.90 Ohm Rd-Bk; not leaking to ground. Anyone know if this is normal? Motor is a GE SME39SL0674.
 
  #74  
Old 02-05-10, 09:16 AM
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All 3 should be withing 3.5 - 5 ohm. 1.9 ohm is NOT normal. That is a shorted winding. From my experience a shorted winding is a fairly rare problem, mind you i have worked on a few dozen so far.

What seems to be a more common motor failure mode is the binder breaking which holds the magnets.



On a side note. I just repaired another module, and have been contacted 3 times in the last two days about more repairs. Is anyone interested in building a replacement control board? I have the experience, i can design the controller, the pcb, the layout, and i can program the chips. But i lack the funding.

With that said, i am looking for funding to develop a one size fits all replacement module. Obviously this is still an open market but for how long?
 
  #75  
Old 02-06-10, 03:36 AM
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RT01 Thermistor Replacement

Hi all

For anyone looking for a RT01 thermistor for a 1/2 hp GE ECM control. Ametherm makes a 1 ohm/20 amp "Inrush current limiter"
pn SL22 1R020 that should be a suitable replacement.

Available from Digi-Key (catalog number 570-1041-ND) for $1.68 each plus shipping.

These may also work for the 3/4 hp controller.

Good Luck
 
  #76  
Old 02-06-10, 02:20 PM
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I use the SL22 on 3/4 with no problems. Infact some of the 3/4 modules are SL22 from factory. It will not work on a 1HP module though.

If you are replacing the thermistor check out the caps too. If the top of the cap is swelled up then it is bad and needs replaced.
 
  #77  
Old 02-08-10, 08:22 PM
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Just got burned by this

I have the 1hp model and jsut paid $1306 today and then found this fourm just too late!!! Darn 1300 vs 10 - SOB
Well maybe some want the old motor or controller (with thermiser burned out) - I really feel stupid now!!!
John
 
  #78  
Old 04-20-10, 05:07 PM
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Same motor different problem

I have the same motor however it only rocks the fan back and forth when connected. When I removed the control module and check the voltage on the pins going to the motor (three pin connector inside the module) the voltage was going from 300 down to nothing and then back up to 300, exactly like the rocking on the fan. What I am seeing is a gain and loss of voltage. Has anone ever seen this and if so what is the cause?. I also verified the voltage going into the 18 pin connector is a steady 24 volts with no drop.
 
  #79  
Old 05-16-10, 09:30 AM
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Exclamation Newbie needs help

All right everyone, I'm brand-spanking-new at this but am confronted with same situation y'all were in: fix it myself for a few dollars (which I have), or just buy a whole new motor for a lot of dollars (which I don't have).

I could use some help.

The first technician I had out told me that it was the drive module to the motor that had to be replaced, to the tune of about $500. I also noticed that my motor is a little different than the others mentioned here, but it was as close as I could find.

I took some pictures, but I can't figure out how to make them show up here but I can e-mail them to you if you'd like them.

GE ECM Programmable Motor, 1/2 HP
Serial No: 5SME39HL0144
Date Code: 220PX
RPM: 1050
Volts: 120/240
PH: 1
FREQ: 60
AMPS: 7.7/4.3
Cust. Model No: 10843304
ROT: CCW

The symptoms were the same as many of the others mentioned in this thread, where the engine would only rock back and forth, about an inch in either direction. Again, the first tech out to the house told my the brains of the unit were fried, and I'd have to get a new one ("brain," not unit).

Here's where I am: I need to test the parts of the module board, but I don't know how. I need to know what tool(s) I'll need to do this project, and quick. We've been blessed with overcast skies and cool weather these past few days, but the San Antonio summer is looming, and my wife is losing patience with me.

I really appreciate the help and feedback.
 
  #80  
Old 05-16-10, 09:32 PM
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Originally Posted by joe1234 View Post
What a great thread and forum this is.

There are so many HVAC contractors that are so corrupt! Charging $1,000.00 for something that can be fixed for around 25 bucks.

No wonder the HVAC contractors at the HVAV talk site prohibit any talk of $dollars$ or how to fix things.

The whole HVAC industry is to freaking corrupt in order to inflate and maintain prices artificially high.
If you mean "the whole HVAC industry", then you mean me. A guy that joined this sight to help guys like you. I charge a fair price, and do a high standard of work, as most HVAC contractors do. However we must make a living just like you. What do you do to put food on the table? Might have some blanket sarcastic remark to make about your career. Sorry, for that commit. Really, you need to apologize for your commit. There are a lot of HVAC techs on this sight that are here just to help. They ask for nothing in return, but some respect. By the way I am a professional member of HVAC talk. That sight was designed for professionals to get help from other professionals. It has a completely different mission. But, still the corrupt techs will answer your questions there, even against the sight rules. Don't know what else to say, but that hurt.
 
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