Central A/C replacement.
#1
02-01-07, 06:35 AM
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Central A/C replacement.
I have a question about an a/c installation. I am garnering bids from different a/c contractors in my area to replace two 20+ year old a/c systems.
One contractor pointed out to me that he would have to replace the lines that run from the outdoor condenser units to the indoor air handlers, because the new refrigerant used (called R410?) will not work properly through lines that have been used for the old refrigerant (R22?): a larger diameter line is required.
Another contractor told me that - if I wanted - he could use the old refrigerant with the new equipment (Trane). This would save me several hundred dollars, and the system would work just fine. Is he right?
One contractor pointed out to me that he would have to replace the lines that run from the outdoor condenser units to the indoor air handlers, because the new refrigerant used (called R410?) will not work properly through lines that have been used for the old refrigerant (R22?): a larger diameter line is required.
Another contractor told me that - if I wanted - he could use the old refrigerant with the new equipment (Trane). This would save me several hundred dollars, and the system would work just fine. Is he right?
#2
02-01-07, 08:59 AM
I would go with the first contractor,, you probably could do with the R22 but in a few years this Refridgerant will not be being used anymore and will be super expensive to replace or deal with,, it is always better to run the unit with the Refridgerant it is designed to be run with,, you could definatly harm the unit if you ran R22
#3
02-01-07, 10:52 AM
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If you went with R-22 system, you can use the same line.... BUT.. is the line the same size as the new one?? I don't think it will be.
I had a new one put in a couple of years ago, and the old line was too small, and had to replace it.
don't let it stop you from going with R-22, they do have replacement gas that will "drop" right in with out any oil changes or metering device.
I had a new one put in a couple of years ago, and the old line was too small, and had to replace it.
don't let it stop you from going with R-22, they do have replacement gas that will "drop" right in with out any oil changes or metering device.
#4
02-12-07, 10:39 AM
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estimates...
Hey EASTPOINT,
I'm just curious....what are the estimates these guyz are giving you for the r22 units? And you stated you already have lines running for refrigerant...are you planning to replace the indoor evaporator coils too? or just the outdoor condenser units? Make sure you get at least 3 estimates. I remember that was my first BIG mistake...not getting enough estimates.
And yes the first contractor is right, you have to replace the piping for the new refrigerant to avoid contamination from the old r22 u have been using and also for pressure purposes...r410 operates under far higher pressure than r22 so bigger pipes are necessary.
If you do go for the r410 refrigerant condenser unit, you will most likely have to also replace your indoor evaporator coils since they were designed to handle r22. But if you go with an r22 condenser unit, you don't necessarily need to replace those indoor evaporator coils (located near the air handler). I didn't have to replace anything inside my home and just had to replace my 30 year old r22 outdoor condenser unit (which I got ripped off for). Eh, It was summer, my fam didn't wanna bear another day of the heat so I paid a lil extra. New house, new surprises everyday....If it weren't for these strict HVAC rules here in NY I would've just bought the unit from ebay and installed it myself with a few DIY printouts.
You should read this EPA page on these refrigerant issues:
http://www.epa.gov/ozone/title6/phaseout/homeowners_faq.html
The new r410 systems will be quite expensive since you have to get 2 of them. They will pay off in the long run though. If you're planning to stay at your current residence for more than 10 years then you should go with the r410 system. I am pretty sure you could get some tax credit on the new r410 system if it has the ENERGY STAR label. Most of them do.
By 2010, it will be very expensive to recharge an r22-operated system.
By 2020 it will be completely phased out. by 2020 you will be totally out of luck with that r22 system if it needs a r22 recharge/replacement unless you know a trenchcoated r22 dealer at that time =D
I'm just curious....what are the estimates these guyz are giving you for the r22 units? And you stated you already have lines running for refrigerant...are you planning to replace the indoor evaporator coils too? or just the outdoor condenser units? Make sure you get at least 3 estimates. I remember that was my first BIG mistake...not getting enough estimates.
And yes the first contractor is right, you have to replace the piping for the new refrigerant to avoid contamination from the old r22 u have been using and also for pressure purposes...r410 operates under far higher pressure than r22 so bigger pipes are necessary.
If you do go for the r410 refrigerant condenser unit, you will most likely have to also replace your indoor evaporator coils since they were designed to handle r22. But if you go with an r22 condenser unit, you don't necessarily need to replace those indoor evaporator coils (located near the air handler). I didn't have to replace anything inside my home and just had to replace my 30 year old r22 outdoor condenser unit (which I got ripped off for). Eh, It was summer, my fam didn't wanna bear another day of the heat so I paid a lil extra. New house, new surprises everyday....If it weren't for these strict HVAC rules here in NY I would've just bought the unit from ebay and installed it myself with a few DIY printouts.
You should read this EPA page on these refrigerant issues:
http://www.epa.gov/ozone/title6/phaseout/homeowners_faq.html
The new r410 systems will be quite expensive since you have to get 2 of them. They will pay off in the long run though. If you're planning to stay at your current residence for more than 10 years then you should go with the r410 system. I am pretty sure you could get some tax credit on the new r410 system if it has the ENERGY STAR label. Most of them do.
By 2010, it will be very expensive to recharge an r22-operated system.
By 2020 it will be completely phased out. by 2020 you will be totally out of luck with that r22 system if it needs a r22 recharge/replacement unless you know a trenchcoated r22 dealer at that time =D
#5
02-12-07, 02:48 PM
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It's well worth the extra money to get the new lines installed with the Puron. I just had my central heat and air replaced last week.
I got 5 bids, the majority of them said I needed different things. It was hard see which one was telling me what I actually needed. I know I did not want the lower bidder, whom in fact was almost $2k cheaper then the next guy. I went with the guy I felt more comfortable with and had the best presentation.
The install turned out great. If you have a ARS company in your area, look them up. Very nice and professional installers.
I got 5 bids, the majority of them said I needed different things. It was hard see which one was telling me what I actually needed. I know I did not want the lower bidder, whom in fact was almost $2k cheaper then the next guy. I went with the guy I felt more comfortable with and had the best presentation.
The install turned out great. If you have a ARS company in your area, look them up. Very nice and professional installers.
#6
02-12-07, 10:44 PM
Stay with R22 freon It will be made till 2030
This R410a now that is a mix of freons. So its cost is very very high and will be for some time. Also if you have a leak in the system. You have to pull all the rest of the freon out of it and put all new in as what is left in there is not R401a any more. So all new R410a has to go back in it
It dont pay and should not be done . To put just a new condenser unit out side and not put a new coil inside.
The units have to match. Best buy today is the XL15i Trane
with R22 a seer of 15. And you will get the tax credit for it.
Also check on the V/S blower well worth the $$$$. They can pull more humidity out of the air for you in summer
This R410a now that is a mix of freons. So its cost is very very high and will be for some time. Also if you have a leak in the system. You have to pull all the rest of the freon out of it and put all new in as what is left in there is not R401a any more. So all new R410a has to go back in it
It dont pay and should not be done . To put just a new condenser unit out side and not put a new coil inside.
The units have to match. Best buy today is the XL15i Trane
with R22 a seer of 15. And you will get the tax credit for it.
Also check on the V/S blower well worth the $$$$. They can pull more humidity out of the air for you in summer
