line sets -- how long can they be before needing the booster?

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Old 05-07-07, 12:21 PM
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line sets -- how long can they be before needing the booster?

when do you know if you need the in line booster for the refrigerant in line sets for heat pumps? I know it has to do with the length of the lines, does anyone know what the length cutoff is? Example, I have a heatpump on the ground, with the line sets going to the 4th floor of an apartment building...... If I do need these boosters (not sure the exact name) how do I know if they were already installed? are they actually in the line sets?

Thanks!
 
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Old 05-07-07, 02:39 PM
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Boosters? Only ones I've ever heard of might be liquid refrigerant pumps used on large commercal systems. For apartmnet size units you just install the right size piping according to the manufacturers directions. Sometimes on units with fixed orifices, you have to change the metering device orifice when the piping exceeds height and/or length parameters, but again the manufacturers directions have to be followed.
 
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Old 05-07-07, 04:37 PM
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Id check with the company that made the units. As to what you can and cant do. Why not put the condenser on the roof
 
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Old 05-09-07, 10:32 AM
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The building does not have a flat roof where we could install the condensors. The problem is that I don't trust the company that installed the units for us. The units were just recently moved from the wooden decking/porch to the ground, as we were having issues of the heat pumps dripping water through the decking. There was some discussion regarding whether or not the units needed some sort of pump/booster since the line sets were going to be so long from the outdoor heat pump to the inside air handler. I cannot tell if this device has been installed or not. We have now had a compressor go out and were told the reason the compressor went out was because these devices may not be there. The reasoning being that the freon has run back into the compressor and fried it? Not real sure exactly what they were talking about as I am a property manager and not a maintenance person, so it has been a little confusing.
 
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Old 05-09-07, 11:38 AM
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Like was said never heard of this and check with the manufacture.
 
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Old 05-09-07, 04:58 PM
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There is no such thing as a "Booster"

Line size is dependent on line length. With a 4 story rise you will also need liquid line solonoid valves to prevent liquid from migrating back to the compressor. And may need oil traps in the suction line.

Do you have a make, model, serial number?

Chris
 
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Old 05-14-07, 06:40 AM
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ok, I have done a little digging on my desk and have located a name for the device that I have been referring to....does an accumulator sound right? They are Lennox heat pumps. I do have model and serial numbers.
 
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Old 05-14-07, 01:13 PM
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Yes will be on every heatpump
 
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Old 05-14-07, 03:04 PM
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Accumulators

If you looking on of the units with is off you should beable to see the accumulator. Follow the Large (suction) line from the compressor. If it goes into I tall cylinder with anothe pipe coming out the top, you have an accumulator.

But with the airhandlers above the heat pumps you need liquid line solinoid valva to keep the compressors from filling with liquid.

Post the model numbers, I'd like to take a look at the install guide.

Chris
 
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Old 05-15-07, 07:46 AM
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Thanks so much for all of the information. This site is fantastic!

The model # of the heat pump unit is 10HP-B42-12P

How would I know if there was a solonoid valve on the unit?
Thanks!
 
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Old 05-15-07, 08:52 AM
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That accumulator has not a thing to do with the lift of the freon there. In fact it is in the suction line. To help prevent excessive liquid going to the compressor.

"a solonoid valve on the unit". I dont think you have one there now. But you can just look for one. I have only had them on a walk in freezer to control the temp there with a suction control
I have had to put oil traps in the suction line many times when the compressor unit is on the roof only.
I dont know why I cant come up with the lift for R22 . But if it was R410a you can run the lines 200ft and with a lift of 60 ft.
 
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Old 05-15-07, 06:21 PM
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So here's the deal.

I found an obsolete 10Hp (1994) and a 10HPB (2002), you may remember I asked for serial numbers?

Installation manuals for both units stipulate a MAXIMUM line lenght of 50 feet. There is nothing about lift.

However the 10HPB manual does stipulate to consult a Lennox publication (which I can't find) about larger lines for a longer run.

Option one is to call Lennox yourself (which I perfer since you have the equipment in question and all the info. Calling info here:
1-800-4LENNOX

Main Menu Option 2 - Technical Support
Sub Option 3 - Application or Design Assistance (Dial 2, 3)
This will direct you to the Application Department for assistance.

Try that and report back. Let us know what they say about what your situation is.

I suspect Lennox will say you lines are too small and you need solinoid valves.

Chris
 
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Old 05-17-07, 10:52 AM
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Lennox help line

Is there another number or a better option to choose when you call Lennox? We have tried 3 times to get through and we sit on hold for hours and no customer service rep picks up....
 
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Old 05-17-07, 11:18 AM
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Why dont the guy that put them in .Or the one that moved them do all this work ??????


Corporate Headquarters:
2100 Lake Park Blvd.
Richardson, TX 75080

P.O. Box 799900
Dallas, TX 75379-9900

Need product information? Our customer-service specialists are ready to answer your questions:

1-800-9-LENNOX (1-800-953-6669)
Monday Friday, 8 am 8 pm EST

If you have technical questions regarding quality, efficiency ratings, or equipment features, please call:

972-497-5000 Ext. 3144
Monday Friday, 8 am 5 pm CST

Try this
 
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Old 05-17-07, 03:08 PM
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I thought that might happen

but figured it was worth a try.

I have my phone list today so try this number if Ed's get you the same run around.

1-800-453-6669, this is a number I call to get parts (can't remember what sort of menu it has) but it should be easy to get a human who can direct your call where it needs to go.

Ed, I suspect that we have a mild mannered Property Manager trying to get all his ducks in a row. Before he confronts the contractor with "You did this, and you did it incorrectly, now fix it on your dime not mine".

Chris
 
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Old 05-18-07, 06:28 AM
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Thank you for the new numbers. I am just trying to get my ducks in a row! I am actually a woman, and I like to know what I am talking about to contractors as sometimes they talk to me like I am a complete moron. This has actually happened to me several times with HVAC contractors.

I did finally get through the 18004Lennox line yesterday afternoon. The guy I spoke with said that he needed to know the information on the air handler and to know exactly how long the lines were, how high they actually go and how many elbows are in the lines. In case it helps you all too, I am posting the information.

S# of heat pump 5804K25645
M# of air handler CB28UH-042-230-01
S# of air handler 5804L29322
Total length of line from air handler to heat pump 100 ft
12 elbows
total height from ground to 4th floor 42 ft

He did tell me that they do not put solonoid valves on heat pump systems. However, they may need a suction line accumalator. He also asked if the indoor unit had an expansion valve. I think what he was getting at was if the indoor unit had an expansion valve then we were ok?

I will try to call them again today with the information they requested. Thank you so much for all of your help!
 
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Old 05-19-07, 08:43 AM
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So your a woman big deal

I've meet many female techs who could easily take the place of 5 men. And I must confess that I quite enjoy the look on a guys face when he realizes the "dumb woman" he is trying to snow may know more about what's going on than he does.

Please forgive our error. Liquid line solonoids would in fact help a straight A/C, but not a heat pump. The reversing valve reverses the refrigerant flow in the lines between heating and cooling.

Each 3/8" elbow equals .5 feet, 3/4 elbow is 2 feet added to length of line.

Did you explain that the outdoor unit was far below the indoor units?

What size are the accumulators? At the very minimum the accumulator should be sized to hold 50% of the system charge. With 10 pounds in the system the accumulator should hold 5 pounds. (No I'm not talking down to you) But in your situation you may want to have an accumulator that would hold up to 75% because of the incredable rise you have there.

Bounce that off of old Dave Lennox and see what he says.

I don't see where you mentioned the size of the refrigerant lines. Ask Lennox what size is recommended for such a long run and rise.

Chris
 
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Old 05-19-07, 02:24 PM
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My Trane books show . For R410a and R22 the same but check the line size. For the unit and the length. A line limit of less than 200 ft and a rise limited to 60 ft. Plus the ELL's in the line. Take to long to put them all in here But like for a 3/8"liquid line.
a 45oL=2.2 ft short L=4.7ft long L=3.2ft Solenoid valve =22 ft and a sight glass=1.6 ft.
My wife could save a lot of service calls just over the phone from what the guys had said to her over time. Like just try this or that on a unit and if that didnt work she could just about tell the tech's what to take along. So he had the right parts.
 
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