Trane heat pump problem XL1400 - cannot add freon


  #1  
Old 06-19-08, 08:49 PM
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Trane heat pump problem XL1400 - cannot add freon

Hey guys,
I'd a 14-year-old trane heat pump XL1400.
3 different repairman try to add the Freon but the pressure didn't keep up.
First, the repair guy release all freon & air and pump out all the air. Then he pumps in a high pressure air to see if there is any leak. However, the pressure is stable...which means there is no leak...right?
And then, he add the freon back again...but here is the problem: the pressure didn't keep up even he adds whole tank of freon.
does anyone know the problem may be???
would it be the problem of air handler?
should I just replace a new one?

thanks
JJ
 
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Old 06-20-08, 01:18 AM
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Interesting...
How could a "tech" possibly dare pressurizing a system with "air" ???? and add a full tank of refrigerant to the system?????

Where did you get these techs?
It's criminal what he's/they've done there with you...both, the releasing of the refrigerant as well as the pressurization with air.

Call someone else who has a MINIMUM of common sense and competency, the guy(s) that worked with your unit is/are incompetent bum(s).
Stronger words should be used to describe these people, but on a public forum we'll leave it at that.
 
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Old 06-20-08, 05:33 AM
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It seems I got the wrong 'tech' :-(
I'm not sure which part he did is illegal..but he did not release R22 into air...instead he pumps it back to a reusable tank.

The first 2 techs also tried to add freon because the pressure is very low...they said the freon is almost empty. However, no matter how much they add...the pressure is still low. Any idea what may be wrong except leaking?
thanks
JJ
 
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Old 06-20-08, 05:59 AM
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Originally Posted by bluehaha
Hey guys,
I'd a 14-year-old trane heat pump XL1400.
3 different repairman try to add the Freon but the pressure didn't keep up.
First, the repair guy release all freon & air and pump out all the air. Then he pumps in a high pressure air to see if there is any leak. However, the pressure is stable...which means there is no leak...right?
And then, he add the freon back again...but here is the problem: the pressure didn't keep up even he adds whole tank of freon.
does anyone know the problem may be???
would it be the problem of air handler?
should I just replace a new one?

thanks
JJ
Sounds like a TXV problem or dirty coil to charge a TXV you have to charge by the Sub cooling method 10 to 12 degrees. If you replace Recomend R22 System 410a takes more
power 2 to 3 times production on R22 Systems will stop in 2010 Good Luck!
 

Last edited by AirZone; 06-20-08 at 06:03 AM. Reason: Not done
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Old 06-20-08, 06:11 AM
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If the system were over charged the system would not cool the Compressor
would become the condencer and not remove heat the TXV controles the Freon so the low pressure would not rise mutch has to be charged from the
high pressure side Sub Cooling 10 to 12 degrees.
 
  #6  
Old 06-20-08, 07:00 AM
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Air Conditioning Repair

First of all we do not even know if this thing has a TXV but if as you say the system has been pressure tested (probably with nitrogen and not air) and there were no leaks and whole cylinders of refrigerant are being put in and the suction pressure does not come up the compressor should get hot and quit number 1 and there is a restriction in the refrigerant circuit I am thinking there is some misinformation in what you are telling us but the fact that you are telling us at all and that you have technicians there that can't figure this out tells me that you have the wrong technician if it is a larger company call the office, explain the situation and ask for someone else and if it is a one man show you have the wrong man call someone else.
 
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Old 06-20-08, 09:37 AM
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I have a guess based on the very limited info given cuz I like to guess I guess. The Fliter Drier is plugged, replace it.
 
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Old 06-20-08, 03:49 PM
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It is very difficult to know whether the people you hire are qualified.
The symptoms you describe sound like your problem should be a snap to diagnose for someone who is competent and qualified.

Call someone else.

What is the experience and background of the company you called or was this some kind of handy man?
 
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Old 06-20-08, 05:09 PM
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Angry I was going to stay away from this one, but....

It is very difficult (Greg) to troubleshoot without enough information about what a system is actually doing.

It is, however, very easy for us to talk about techs people should hire, qualifications, how many people in the company etc..

There are 8 posts preceding this one including the original and a reply from the original poster.

No one says, "Hey Blue what are the model and serial numbers of the indoor and out door units?" which could allow us to find more information about the unit. Like what the start charge is for the condenser as well as the add for lineset and air handler.

No one asks, "Blue, what do the service reports say? Does it say discharge psi is X, Suction is X, Temps are X, X, X." "Blue, why did you call for service in the first place?".

Bluehaha (love these names), is there any info on the service reports you can share? Feel the pipes at the outdoor unit, big one and small one, what's up?

Why did you make a service call in the first place?

Model and serial numbers please.



Help us help you.
 
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Old 06-21-08, 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Jarredsdad
It is very difficult (Greg) to troubleshoot without enough information about what a system is actually doing.

It is, however, very easy for us to talk about techs people should hire, qualifications, how many people in the company etc..

There are 8 posts preceding this one including the original and a reply from the original poster.

No one says, "Hey Blue what are the model and serial numbers of the indoor and out door units?" which could allow us to find more information about the unit. Like what the start charge is for the condenser as well as the add for lineset and air handler.

No one asks, "Blue, what do the service reports say? Does it say discharge psi is X, Suction is X, Temps are X, X, X." "Blue, why did you call for service in the first place?".

Bluehaha (love these names), is there any info on the service reports you can share? Feel the pipes at the outdoor unit, big one and small one, what's up?

Why did you make a service call in the first place?

Model and serial numbers please.



Help us help you.
My thoughts exactly.

"You can get anybody to install, service or repair your air conditioning, gas, duel fuel or heat pump system that doesn't mean that they will install it correctly or in accordance to code."
 
  #11  
Old 06-22-08, 07:07 AM
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thanks so much for those awesome feedback.
First of all, I got to admit I'm not good at any of those AC knowledge and probably should find a good company to repair it.

I was told that the problem could be the little device on the last photo of this link:
http://picasaweb.google.com/dinofifa/TraneAc

It is inside the air handler and acts as a connector from outside freon pipe to air handler. Again, I was told that if this gets cleaned...everything 'might be' solved.

this is my Trane XL 1400 info:
model: TWY030A100A2
 
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Old 06-22-08, 07:36 AM
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Could very well be a TXV problem or not.

Blue, you still hav not told us why you called for service in the first place.

Did the Service guy remove the bulb to test the valve?

Here is a link to the original product data
http://jarredsdad.embarqspace.com/#/welcome/4529420987
 
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Old 06-22-08, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Jarredsdad
Could very well be a TXV problem or not.

Blue, you still hav not told us why you called for service in the first place.

Did the Service guy remove the bulb to test the valve?

Here is a link to the original product data
http://jarredsdad.embarqspace.com/#/welcome/4529420987
Hi Jarredsdad,
The reason I called for service is the air is not cold enough. I set the temp to 72 but the real temp is stilll around 80 after runnnig for the whole day...so I figure the AC did not get enough freon....that's how the whole story began :-(

Did the Service guy remove the bulb to test the valve?
did you mean the valve shown on the last photo? If so, not yet.

what's is TXV?

thanks
bluehaha
 
  #14  
Old 06-22-08, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by bluehaha
Hi Jarredsdad,
The reason I called for service is the air is not cold enough. I set the temp to 72 but the real temp is stilll around 80 after runnnig for the whole day...so I figure the AC did not get enough freon....that's how the whole story began :-(

Did the Service guy remove the bulb to test the valve?
did you mean the valve shown on the last photo? If so, not yet.

what's is TXV?

thanks
bluehaha
oh...I see
TVX means: Thermal Expansion Valve ...right?
is that the valve shown on my last photo?
I was told it'll cost me $700 to get it cleaned :-(
 
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Old 06-22-08, 04:25 PM
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BLUE! Congrats you finally told us what the problem really is after a total of 14 posts.

Just kidding.

You are correct, TXV is thermal expansion valve. It meters the refrigerant flow through the indoor coil.

Testing it is removing the bulb (picture #5 under the insulation) and holding in your hand. Suction pressure should rise. Then place bulb in ice water pressure should drop.

There is no "cleaning" only replacing.

Call a different company.

And 700 maybe right for a new valve.
 
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Old 06-22-08, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Jarredsdad
BLUE! Congrats you finally told us what the problem really is after a total of 14 posts.

Just kidding.

You are correct, TXV is thermal expansion valve. It meters the refrigerant flow through the indoor coil.

Testing it is removing the bulb (picture #5 under the insulation) and holding in your hand. Suction pressure should rise. Then place bulb in ice water pressure should drop.

There is no "cleaning" only replacing.

Call a different company.

And 700 maybe right for a new valve.
Hi Jarredsdad,
is TXV the blue stuff in this photo?
http://picasaweb.google.com/dinofifa...99592492840802

Can you please give me more detailed instruction how to test the TXV is working or not?
is the 'bulb' inside the whole black insulation? Can my hand feel suction pressure?
thanks so much
bluehaha
 
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Old 06-23-08, 02:03 PM
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Blue in the photo is the top of the TXV.

As far as testing, this is where you, the DIYer stop.

Testing the valve means you have to connect gauges to the system. Which means you have to be EPA certified to do so.

Your A/C tech should have done this instead of telling you it needed to be cleaned.
 
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Old 06-23-08, 06:02 PM
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Hi Jarredsdad,
thanks so much for the info again.
I'll find someone to check it.
 
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Old 06-27-08, 08:55 AM
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Hi Jarredsdad,
One of the tech told me he can install for me but I'll need to get the TXV for him.
My TXV model is: GT5039-2
do you know where I can buy the TXV directly?
I find a new TXV but the model is: GT5086-1 for 3-ton (my unit is 2.5 ton)
do you think I can use it?
thanks
 
  #20  
Old 06-27-08, 03:23 PM
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You can not and should not buy this part.
No normal supplier will sell this type of equipment direct.

I originally suggested that your problems should be very easy for someone qualified to diagnose.
It sounds as if you are on a downward spiral with someone who does not know what they are doing at the helm.

Again, call a legitimate service person and give the trade some respect by not calling the person doing your work a tech!
 
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Old 06-27-08, 05:01 PM
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Agree with Greg

Blue, perhaps I did not communicate effectively.

You started this thread with "can not add freon".

I and others asked why and why do you need to.

While you have only said the original problem was that the air was not cold enough, you went straight into cleaning a TXV. YOU DON'T CLEAN A TXV. YOU REPLACE IT.

I asked if the tech had tested the txv. You asked if you could do it and if "your hand could feel suction pressure". NO IT CAN'T.

Blue, get off this cheap route your trying to use and call A REAL SERVICE COMPANY.

A real service tech is not just going to try and add refrigerant. A real service tech is not going to tell you your TXV "needs to be cleaned".

Suck it up Blue, stop wasting time (yours and ours) call a good company and have the problem diagnosed and solved.
 
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Old 06-27-08, 05:29 PM
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all right...this would be my last post.
I already find 3 COMPANIES to check the machine. They all advise me to replace the whole new machine. I am just trying to save some money.
thanks again
 
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Old 06-27-08, 06:01 PM
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Then you have tried 3 companies who want to sell you what you may not need because they can not fix what you have.

Blue there must be someone in your area that knows what they are doing!

Try asking them the "how do you test a TXV" question to get a feel of knowledge.

Not trying to get you to stop your post, but, rather trying to get you to get on with it.

You ask a question we give a real answer, the tech at your door may not know that answer.

We come here to help, but you have to help us help you, and you have to use that to help yourself when dealing eith companies.

Bite the bullet and try another, ask to talk to the service manager and ask him how do you test a TXV.

Blue, it's a very simple test. It involves a set of gauges, your haned, and ice water.

And, if you do end up changing the valve, have the drier changed also.
 
 

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