I just Did It Myself


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Old 06-25-08, 07:26 AM
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I just Did It Myself

Well... kinda

This is my first post here so go easy on me please!

For reference, the system is a Hitachi RAS-N22T.

This is the TLDR version: I might have over bent the pipes on my air con unit, and am wondering about the consequences. I'd also appreciate the do's and don'ts with air con piping since the manual I have is in Japanese

I bought an Aircon last night and hauled it back home. After a quick perusal of the pretty pictures in the manual, the connectors, and the components, I decided it shouldn't be too much effort to install myself. I was wrong.

My apartment already had bolts for wall mounting, so I blazed ahead and fixed up the bracket plate (after some metalwork on the holes which were too far apart), and got myself prepared for the mounting. I'm not sure how brand new units come packaged, but this second hand one already had the pipes and wires connected to the indoor unit, along with their insulation. I quickly found that these pipes are not very flexible, and having been told to be careful with them by the cabbie who transported the gear, I decided to be careful. However I think I became a bit complacement, as after several failed attempts to work the pipes around the curtain rail above which the indoor unit should sit, I got angry and threw caution to the wind. I bent and rebent the pipes at will, but not overly so. I finally got the unit hooked to the wall, and fed the pipes through the conveniently provided wall hole.

Once outside, I discovered I had far too much pipe length for the condenser to sit in an ideal position. Getting tired, I made close to a right angle with the pipe, and now I'm worried I've bent the pipe too much. I've finally connected all the necessary pieces, but I dont have a spanner that fits the valve sockets, so I'll have to wait until tomorrow to tighten them up before switching it on.

In the meantime, I'm wondering about the various permutations of my actions. If I have bent the pipes too much, what will happen? How can I fix it if they're broken. And moreover - what exactly flows through those pipes - is it the special gas used in the heat exchanger cycle?
Another thing, is that the manual (which is in Japanese and I cannot read), showed me that I should not make zig-zags or inflected shapes with the pipe. To get the pipe to the wall hole, I've had to do exactly that. Is it a big problem?

Thanks for reading, and I hope you can help.

Scott
 
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Old 06-25-08, 07:44 AM
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I wonder if you're aware that is illegal for anyone not holding an EPA refrigerant handling certification to take matters into his/her own hands and work with components and/or linesets containing refrigerant.
 
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Old 06-25-08, 07:57 AM
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No I didn't. Is that an international law? I guess this isn't a 100% DIY site then
 
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Old 06-25-08, 08:01 AM
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Pflor,
I saw on another thread that R410 (?) didn't need ceritification, but I never saw the resolution. Either can't find the thread or it was deleted. Could you comment? Not that I plan anything like that. Just wondered.
 
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Old 06-25-08, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Delta3000
No I didn't. Is that an international law? I guess this isn't a 100% DIY site then

You're quite right...
This is not a 100% DIY site, nor will be any other, when it comes to refrigerants. And it is law in this country of ours.
 
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Old 06-25-08, 09:28 AM
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Gunguy, is this the thread you remember?

http://forum.doityourself.com/showthread.php?t=343558
 
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Old 06-25-08, 09:41 AM
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furd,
yeah, thats the one...so whats up with that?
If you want, reply via PM if its something that should stay off the boards.

thx,
Vic
 
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Old 06-25-08, 09:55 AM
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I don't know. I know that anybody (with the exception of a couple of state prohibitions) may buy R410a for use in an automotive air conditioner. I don't know if it is legal to work on any other R410a application without certification.

I haven't worked on a refrigerant system since 1979 and that far pre-dates the EPA certification requirement. I never bothered to get the certification because I was no longer working with refrigerants. I have not kept current with the laws governing working with refrigerants.
 
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Old 06-25-08, 10:04 AM
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ahh ok thx, i'm sure someone else may pop in.
 
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Old 06-25-08, 03:57 PM
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The bottom line is that we do not support or offer advice on working on sealed systems.

Regardless of it possibly being lawful in some areas this does not hold true for all jurisdictions..............Canada for one.
One reason that Canada includes some non-ozone depleting refrigerants in these restrictions is that the release of non CFC or HCFC refrigerants contribute to global warming as well as the dangerously high pressures 410 operates at.

Another thing that is not permitted in Canada and I am surprised is available in the US is quick connect fittings.
These were outlawed here in the early 90's when our CFC laws came into effect.
Not as much to limit the ability of people to DIY but for their bad reputation for leaking rerigerant.
 
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Old 06-25-08, 04:08 PM
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Thx Greg, that clarifies it to me.
 
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Old 06-25-08, 05:59 PM
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this is from EPA.gov

Are there any restrictions on the purchase of hydrofluorocarbon (HFC) refrigerants?

No, at this time, the purchase of HFC refrigerants is not restricted. (For example, there is no technician certification requirement for those that purchase HFC refrigerants, such as R-410A or R-134a.)
Is EPA technician certification required to service R-410A systems?

No, EPA technician certification (i.e., EPA section 608 certification) is not required in order to service R-410A systems or other systems containing HFCs.
I can't seem to find diddly squat for Canada. If anybody does have a link to the official position, I would like to have it.

I do understand the refusal to offer advice since the internet is a worldwide thing and info here would also be info there.
 
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Old 06-26-08, 06:40 AM
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Well I'm actually living in Japan. I spoke to colleagues about this today and nobody has ever heard of aircon installation being illegal over here, though most do admit to getting an engineer out to do it instead.
 

Last edited by GregH; 06-26-08 at 05:38 PM.
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Old 06-26-08, 04:00 PM
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My 2 cents.

Biening In Japen I can understand how you could buy this thing and insatll it yourself.

I used to work for a geothermal distributor who started selling mini-splits. The Brand name is Zooling from Korea. These thinks are sold over there like refridgerators here. The homeowner buys the thing, installs it, hooks everything up and then calls a number which generate a tech visit.

This person shows up, checks the install, vaccuums the lineset and indoor unit, opens valves and starts unit. Done.

Here at DIY there is a rule not to advise on any sealed system repairs. Doesn't matter if the EPA requires a cert or not, No Sealed System Advise, period.

Why?

Belive it or not this is a business. See those ads ------->
Ever been to hvac-talk? Very similar site, still a business.

YEah, you ask questions other people give answers and advice, which is why DIY is so popular.

Suppose we tell Joe Schmoe how to hook up the old gauges he has and thermometers to get us the real readings we'd love to have in order to troubleshoot.

Then old Joe goes outside, Murphy shows up, and Joe ends up with frost bite and looses a couple fingers. Now Joe wants some dough, who's he gonna sue? DIY

Say, Joe does as suggested and everything is fine. Joe is happy DIY helped him out, saved tons of dough.

But, months later Joe Schmuckatelli thinks he has the same problem and uses the same advice. Murphy shows up and this Joe freezes an eyebal and looses a finger. Now this Joe wants some eyeball cash, who's he going to sue?

I think Sharp Advice is also a very Sharp guy.

Hence, no seal system repair advice on DIY. It's just plain good business practice as well as common sence.

Not to mention that we know what we know, we don't know what you know.
 
 

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