Amana 80SSE IIQ A/C blower problem


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Old 06-26-08, 04:37 PM
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Amana 80SSE IIQ A/C blower problem

I am having a problem where the A/C blower does not want to come up to full speed. When the A/C kicks on, normaly the blower steps up to full speed in 2-3 steps. Now it just stops at the lowest speed and runs there for about 1 min. then shuts off. This is the wierd part, if I turn on my "swamp" cooler and create some backpresure, when turning on the A/C it will spin up to full speed no problem.

Last year I had a A/C tech out and after overcharging the freon 5 pounds and charging me $900.00, told me the blower controller was bad, but he would need to replace the blower motor as well. He wanted to charge a aditional $1,600 to replace both. (Or he would give me a great deal on a new unit)

After hitting google, I had a replacement controller to me in 2 days for about $100.00. Plus $60.00 for a honest A/C guy to blead off 5 pounds of freon and I had a working A/C again.

My problem is now a year later the blower is doing the same thing. Should I replace the blower motor, controller, or both.
 
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Old 06-26-08, 07:54 PM
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Pls double check the M/N (look on the nameplate). The Goodman/Amana website is showing-up "no hits" for the M/N given by you. I take it that this is likely a furnace?

Are we talking an ECM here?
 

Last edited by pflor; 06-26-08 at 08:13 PM.
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Old 06-26-08, 08:51 PM
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I will get the m/n when I get home. On my system the heater/blower unit also serves as the blower for the A/C. the exchanger coil unit (CHA36TCC) sits on top of the blower/heater. The rest of the unit sits on the ground outside.
 
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Old 06-27-08, 01:46 AM
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Understood. My point is that 80SSE IIQ A is likely the marketing name for this furnace, not its model number, which should be engraved in the nameplate of this device.
 
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Old 06-27-08, 03:50 AM
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The bottom section containing the air mover and gas furnace has no plate with any model #. On the the lower door is a schematic with P1200201F on it. The controller I replaced is a White Rogers 50A51-225, a second control board, Amana #20158901 I did not replace. I did not see any part # on the motor. If needed I can take a few photos to help.

As for "ECM" I am drawing a blank other than Electronic Counter Measure. I doubt that is what you were talking about.
 
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Old 06-27-08, 06:07 AM
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ECM = electronically commutated motor
www.nailor.com/pdf/ECM_1.pdf

Can't do much for you without m/n, but try the pics, maybe is something simple that can be spotted on a pic (it'll be the luck of the draw though)
 

Last edited by pflor; 06-27-08 at 06:57 AM.
  #7  
Old 06-27-08, 01:34 PM
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Here are the photos.
Photobucket
Photobucket
Photobucket
Photobucket
 
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Old 06-27-08, 04:18 PM
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When you remove the top door (the one that has the Amana and 80SSE IIQ label, which BTW is only its marketing name), you have in front of you the burner compartment and right in front of you is the gas valve. Look to the right, the interior of the right wall; there should be a nameplate there that has info about this unit (M/N, S/N, heating capacity, min/mas gas pressures, etc., etc.) Try finding out that plate and get the M/N.

Nice pics. From looking at the terminal board on the module, I can tell your furnace has two stages of heating. Is your thermostat a multi-stage as well?

On the terminal board I see a jumper between terminals W1 and W2. That is not a kosher thing to do, though the mfr of your unit may have designed it so that doing so causes no problems (the service manual would tell, but for that one needs to know the M/N)

I also see that your electronic module is a White Rodgers. the maze of wires does not afford me to see the M/N of this module. Can you get and post that as well?

On the pics you have posted I cannot spot the fuse and nothing seems out of the ordinary. Maybe the contactor outside (by the condensing unit) has shorted or wires are shorted-out and that is causing the fuse in the module to blow. Go outdoors and disconnect one of the control (24V-coil) wires that feed the contactor; then call for cooling from the t-stat. If the fuse no longer dies on you, then you have a bad contactor coil.
 
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Old 06-27-08, 04:26 PM
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Making note to self that maybe I do need the bifocals. The M/N is GUIV070CX40 P1230203F
 
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Old 06-27-08, 04:47 PM
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As for the thermostat, I believe it is just a single stage. (Maple Chase 9500) Living in the middle of Arizona though, the heater side gets little use. The fuses all seem ok. As stated though I can get the blower to kick up to full speed, I just need to have my swamp cooler adding some "back preasure " to it. The White Rogers # is 50A51-225, and that is the controler I replaced last year when this was hapening.
 
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Old 06-27-08, 05:06 PM
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Oooopppsss !!!
sorry, I got the postings mixed up, I had you in mind as someone else having the fuse on the control board blowing-up. I'm on my way out to a H.S. grad party. Will get back in touch later. Multitasking ain't for me apparently...
 
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Old 06-28-08, 08:43 AM
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Quantum:
I would like to know how old is this furnace. I've been perusing thru heavy duty tech info and the manufacturer indicates that with this unit you either (a) use a two-stage thermostat, or (b) have a two-stage-relay-kit installed.
The jumper you have now between W1 and W2 is a NO DO thing.

Why?
b/c each stage of the thermostat is expected to talk to a one and specific speed tap of the blower motor.

In your case, with that jumper in place between W1 and W2, the t-stat is talking to two speed taps at the same time. I'm not quite sure at this time (I'm doing some more reading) how exactly this would affect your blower motor, but it is obviously doing so (affecting)...Bear in mind that with a regular motor, if you feed at the same time two different speed taps, you smoke the motor right away. With an ECM the damage may not be immediate, it is likely a progressive thing that takes time, but damage will happen (and has already apparently).

You do not have in your furnace a regular PSC motor. You don't have one of those old timers. You have a beauty of a motor, it's called an ECM (electronically commutated motor), it's basically a 3-phase DC device capable of full modulation; it will adjust its RPMs in order to provide a constant airflow (CFM). But they are also delicate things.

I think the jumper on the t-stat messed your motor up the first time and is doing so again (it may already have done so irreversibly). But I'll get back to you with tests and procedures to do. Likely not today b/c I'll be leaving shortly to a pool party at a friend's house. But I'll be in touch.
 

Last edited by pflor; 06-28-08 at 11:16 AM.
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Old 06-28-08, 08:21 PM
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The unit is about 5-6 years old. What would the relay kit look like?
 
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Old 06-28-08, 08:44 PM
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You may want to download the ECM Service Guide (it's free).
There's a tester that will come in handy; it's called the "TecMate".
http://www.thedealertoolbox.com/teac...SID=a3eeef#esg
The guide will teach you how to troubleshoot the ECM
 
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Old 06-28-08, 09:19 PM
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tsrk01

 
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Old 06-28-08, 09:44 PM
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Not having on hand the relay mentiond, you may want to try this wiring for the time being.





And in your place I would test the thermostat (to cover all the bases). Remove the t-stat, remove that jumper between W1 and W2 (shown in your pic below) and artificially call for cooling by temporarily placing a jumper between R and Y1. If the problem persists, you will know that the t-stat is not to blame...if the problem is solved, you're on luck (go buy a lottery ticket), the t-stat was defective (though I doubt it).

The fight here is, I think, between having a bad ECM (most likely) or a bad electronic board (the White Rodgers).
 
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Old 06-30-08, 03:55 PM
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Ok I removed the jumper, and basicly the same problem. (There was no switch on the controller for single vs double stage, only heater delay)

I did notice something. On the secondary control board, pt#20158901 the red led labled cfm flickers faintly when the blower is on the lower speed trying to go to full speed. When the motor did go to full speed , it blinks 4-5 times as the motor completly shuts off. I do not see the red led on the main controler pt# 50A51-225 blinking.

Looking at the ECM guide you linked me to, it looks like the type ECM I have is the 2.3.

Short of pulling the blower assy out and looking, is there any way of knowing the part # of the ECM and motor. I found a few motors and 1 ECM that look like the right one, but at $400. I kinda wanna make sure

Motor 1

motor 2

ECM

Or should I try and replace the White Rogers controler first as that is what seemed to fix the problem last year? And/or replacing the secondary control board, pt#20158901 be worth anything. I also plan on picking up a few cans of blast-a-coil and cleaning the insode coils as a long shot.

What benifit would getting a 2 stage t-stat give me?
 
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Old 07-01-08, 02:12 PM
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Any idea on the part #s? I want to try and get the parts by this weekend.
 
 

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