Wiring air handler and Tstat for 2 stage cooling, wiring diagrams included


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Old 06-05-09, 09:12 AM
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Wiring air handler and Tstat for 2 stage cooling, wiring diagrams included

I'm confused. My electrician and I quickly looked at the wiring diagrams for the air handler that is getting installed next weekend, to see how many wires we needed, and a quick review left more questions. I was hoping you guys could help.

Some background. We are adding central a/c to our house. House has forced hot water baseboard heat by oil. So the air handler is just for the AC system. It's a variable speed unit, which will be connected two a condenser with a 2 stage condenser and a 2 speed fan. Both products are matching Goodmans.

Looking at the wiring diagram for the air handler, it shows 4 wires to the condenser, and then 8 to the tstat. That can't be right. In reading the notes on the page, it says just connect Y1 and Y2, so why show 8? For the two stage cooling, I'm wondering if it's something in between.

I'm sure the A/C guy can help, but I like to know and understand myself. Yes, I like to double check too. Plus, it sounds like he doesn't do a lot of these two stage units, so I'd like to know.

For the tstats, I'm planning on either the Honeywell 7500D or the 7600D, both of which I'm told support two stage cooling systems, which is what I assume this is given the two stage compressor.

Wiring diagrams for both the air handler and condenser are linked here.

Air Handler Wiring

Condenser Wiring

Can anyone shed some light on this?

By the way, the new tstat will replace an existing one, and will be used for both the new a/c and the existing heat.

Thanks a million.
 
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Old 06-05-09, 10:04 AM
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The air handler is universal for cooling only, electric heat or heat pumps which is why they show running so many conductors to the thermostat. It's always a good idea to run a cable with more than you need in case of an oops. If the new thermostat is going to operate both the heating and cooling you'll need extra conductors for the heating equipment. I'm assumong the existing heat uses 24 volts? If yes, it has a transformer and you will need to have the heating and cooling transformers isolated from each other. You can do this by is using what is called an independent or two transformer stat/subbase or with an isolation relay in the heating circuit. It looks like you'll need at least 7 conductors to the stat [power, common, fan, 2 stages of cooling, one stage of heat and an O circuit = 7. I'm not sure what they are doing with O] so run a 10 conductor cable which will give you some spares. You'lll also have to run a cable from the air handler to the heating equipment. How does the heat work now? Does the existing stat turn on the boiler or a circulating pump?
 
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Old 06-05-09, 12:37 PM
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I'm not using the air handler for heat at all, cooling only. I have an existing oil fired boiler for baseboard heat. And I'm replacing the existing tstat that was used for that heat zone since it can't handle the two stage cooling system, so there are already wires run for the heat system. So basically, a replacement tstat for the heat system, and then adding on the cooling.

I thought when you had heat and cooling on the same tstat, and yes the heat is 24vdc, that you remove the jumper on the tstat so you don't end up feeding both sides of the tstat with 48v. I'm sure I don't get something. Is it not that easy when they are two independent systems?

But that being said, I was thinking of running 6 wires to the existing tstat location, just in case I needed a couple of extra. From what I can tell, for single stage cooling, you would only need Y and Y2. I don't see what else is needed for a two stage system. And I do see that I need 4 wires from the air handler to the condenser.
 

Last edited by steveg_nh; 06-05-09 at 01:52 PM.
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Old 06-05-09, 04:20 PM
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If the stat has an Rc terminal and an Rh terminal with a jumper in between then yes, you remove the jumper wire to keep the circuits separate from each other. For cooling you will need R, G, Y1 and Y2. If you're going to reuse the existing heating cable then a 6 conductor cable from the AH should be enough.
 
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Old 06-05-09, 08:22 PM
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Thanks. I will reuse the existing tstat wire for the oil boiler. Why not. They are going in two different directions anyway.

6 4 wires. Do any of those wires signify the first stage vs the second stage? I really don't understand what that means, but I'm curious to learn more. If it were single stage, what would not be hooked up?

And it's fine to run the same 6 wire from the AH to the condenser right? I just wouldn't use 2 of the wires.
 
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Old 06-05-09, 11:39 PM
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Yeah, you can run a cable with any number of conductors you like and just spiral back onto the cable the ones you don't use. The yelloow wire is the one normally used for the first stage of cooling. White is for heat, red is the transformer power and green is for the indoor blower circuit. Use a leftover color for the 2nd stage of cooling. Want to have some fun? Go on a service call where the low voltage cable was run from the air handler to the condensing unit thru the attic. The guy ran out of cable about halfway thru the attic and when he spliced on additional cable he changed colors in the attic.
 
  #7  
Old 06-06-09, 11:37 AM
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Oh ya!

I was sent on a service call 2 weeks ago....OT...ended up the only RTU on the roof that failed to work was the low bidders, he changed the stat wire 3 times...white brown and white,... before he got to the control panel and then forgot to wire in the return side of the transformer.... I hate coming up behind someone elses crap work! Anywho!
Run 18/8 from the air handler to the stat and 18/5 to the condensing unit. Most all stats today need a C wire connected up, you may as well do it now when you have the oppourtunity, its cheap insurance. If you loose a conductor for who knows what...and you dont have a spare, your screwed and will have to run a whole new wire, sheet rocking.... get the picture! The stat wire is stapled down so you won't be able to snake on through by tying onto the existing one...Go 18/8...Its the only wire I have in my truck.
 
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Old 06-07-09, 04:20 PM
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But I'm only wiring for cooling, not heat with this air handler. So is it Rc, Y, Y2 and Green?
 
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Old 06-07-09, 04:35 PM
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I was taliking about the stat. At the stat you will need Rc Y1 Y2 and G for cooling plus Rh and W for heat.
 
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Old 06-07-09, 05:04 PM
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Sorry, that's what I meant. I see what you're saying now. You were still telling me for heat, even though it's on a different system/line.

So just to be sure, it's ok to use two indepedent systems with the same tstat, as long as the jumper is removed between the two R terminals, right? Each system, the AC and the heat, would each put 24V to the tstat.

Is this correct?
 
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Old 06-07-09, 09:06 PM
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Yes sir that is exactly correct. It's imperative the keep the transformer secondaries isolated from each other. The thermostat will operate both systems separately. I know I've been a bit of a stickler about the thermostat wiring but I have had many panic no heat calls at the beginning of the heating season only to find that a new cooling system or new thermostat was installed months previously and nobody thought about the heat, only the cooling.
 
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Old 06-10-09, 07:22 AM
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Perfect, Picked up 250' of 18/5 tstat wire, so we're ready to go.

Thanks for all the help.
 
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Old 06-15-09, 01:01 PM
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Sorry to revisit this one, but I'm a bit confused still (since I don't have a Y1 labeled terminal on the tstat as mentioned above).

Looking at the air handler wiring diagram again, it has R (red), G (green), and then Y1 (purple) and Y/Y2 (yellow).

My tstat has Y, G, Rc, Y2.

So I'm assuming that the Y on the tstat connects to the Y1 of the air handler (purple) and the Y2 terminal of the tstat goes to the Y/Y2 wire (yellow) on the air handler.

So I'd have this:

Wire on Air Handler --> Connection on Tstat
Red --> Rc
Green --> G
Yellow --> Y2
Purple --> Y

What's confusing me is why the wiring diagram shows the same wire (yellow) as Y and Y2. I'm assuming that in a single stage setup, the yellow on the air handler is the only stage, so it goes to the Y terminal, but in a two stage, it's the second stage, so it goes to Y2. Purple is the first stage, or Y (or Y1).

Does this sound correct?

And then to the condenser from the air handler, I would think, according to its wiring diagram, that I would have Y, Y2 and R.
 
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Old 06-16-09, 06:13 AM
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I looked again last night, and I'm still confused.
 
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Old 06-17-09, 02:27 AM
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It is confusing. Note 4 helps. I think the Y/Y2 terminal means that if the system is single stage cooling, then Y/Y2 is considered as Y. If the system is 2 stage cooling, then Y/Y2 is considered as Y2 or the second stage of cooling. so:

AH ---> Stat

Red wire ---> Rc
Green wire --> G
Purple wire ---> Y1
Yellow wire ---> Y2
Blue wire ---> C [if thermostat requires a C connection]

Use the red conductor in the cable for R, green for G and yellow for Y2. It doesn't matter what color conductors you use for Y1 and C, just be sure they are the same on each end. !8/5 cable should be red, green, yellow, white and another color [usually either blue, black or brown]

For the condensing unit:

1. inside the air handler cap off Y/Con, both O's, W1 and both W2's separately with a wirenut.

2. AH ---> Condensor

R ---> R
C ---> C
Y1 ---> Y1 [Y1 from stat, Y1 to condensor and purple wire all joined together]
Y2 ---> Y2 [Y2 from stat, Y2 from condensor and yellow wire all joined together]

Same thing here, it doesn't matter what conductors are used for C and Y2 but use the same colors that you used from the stat to the AH, it will reduce confusion.

There is some incongruity between the AH and Condensor diagrams, but I think this is the solution.
 
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Old 06-17-09, 08:27 AM
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Guess I missed Note 4. Thanks for pointing that out.

Isn't C the common to power the Tstat? Or is it something else? The tstat only requires batteries if I don't have power available. The way I understand it is, I don't necessarily have to use C to the tstat. But are you saying I must use it for the condenser.

And on the tstat, I don't have Y1, but I assume I would use "Y." Correct?

On the condenser, maybe that's what I was confused about, as the air handler wiring diagram seemed odd. I wondered about YCON.

My AC guy said only 2 wires to the condenser from the air handler, but I didn't see how that would work.

So For the Y connections, there will be 3 wires for both Y1 and Y2, all connected together with a wire nut...
1. The wire from the tstat
2. The wire on the air handler
3. The wire on the condenser

Would all the C's be tied together, or no?

I'm sure my electrician knows all this, but I like to know going into it myself.

I need to look at the actual wires tonight on the AH, but this is starting to clear up a bit. I think.
 
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Old 06-17-09, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by steveg_nh
Guess I missed Note 4. Thanks for pointing that out.

Isn't C the common to power the Tstat? Or is it something else? The tstat only requires batteries if I don't have power available. The way I understand it is, I don't necessarily have to use C to the tstat. But are you saying I must use it for the condenser.

C is the common side of the transformer. whether or not you need C at the thermostat depends on the thermostat. if it has a C connection, then use it, if it doesnt, don't worry about it. However, you have to have C at the outdoor unit in order to complete the circuits

And on the tstat, I don't have Y1, but I assume I would use "Y." Correct?

[B]what does the thermostat have? Y and Y1?[ are you sure you have the right thermostat? is it from the equipment manufacturer?/B]

On the condenser, maybe that's what I was confused about, as the air handler wiring diagram seemed odd. I wondered about YCON.

it looks like Y/Con is used for single stage outdoor units

My AC guy said only 2 wires to the condenser from the air handler, but I didn't see how that would work.

neither do I, you need 4- notice how they want both R and C going to the oudoor unit? That means that they want 24 volts on the CADM module all the time

So For the Y connections, there will be 3 wires for both Y1 and Y2, all connected together with a wire nut...
1. The wire from the tstat
2. The wire on the air handler
3. The wire on the condenser

that's how I try it were I there but I'm not happy about the inconsistency between the 2 wiring diagrams

Would all the C's be tied together, or no?

I hadn't thought about that but no, they are shown separately so I would play it safe but they eventually go back to the same place

I'm sure my electrician knows all this, but I like to know going into it myself.

the electrician will be totally clueless. it's starting to sound like the a/c guy might also be clueless. these are complex systems

I need to look at the actual wires tonight on the AH, but this is starting to clear up a bit. I think.

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Old 06-17-09, 10:39 AM
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Thanks again. The A/C guy hasn't done a lot of residential 2 stage systems, so I'm cutting him some slack.

The wiring diagram for the air handler is generic of course, so I assume that might explain some of the inconsistency. The condenser surely does show the 4 wires. I know the wires on the air handler are labeled as well, so I'll take a look tonight.

My last question is this - once it's all hooked up, how would I know if the first stage and second stage are properly working at the right times? How would I know the difference?

Thanks again. I appreciate it.
 
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Old 06-17-09, 12:51 PM
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Actually, another question. If I do hook up C at the tstat, will this have a negative effect on my heating system at all? I know I need to remove the jumper between Rc and Rh. But since these are 2 independent systems, I just want to be sure. I don't believe so, as only Rh and W go back to the boiler.

And I think I misunderstood what C was for. I thought it was power for the tstat, so you didn't need batteries. That's not the case though. So if my tstat isn't pulling power from the system, then I would not need it right? But it sounds like the condenser does. Ugh. Nightmare.

Thanks.
 
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Old 06-17-09, 04:22 PM
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Notice on the wiring diagram for the condensor how Y2 goes to CS which is called the compressor solenoid. When the compressor is running on the first stage only, it is partially unloaded. IOW- it's not pumping at it's full capacity. When the stat calls for Y2, the compressor loads up to it's full capacity. Loading/unoading type of capacity control has been around forever on commercial sized equipment but is new to residential units. You'll be able to hear the compressor load and unload. In addition, notice that the condensor fan motor is a 2 speed motor. During the first stage operation it runs on low speed, and at full capacity operation, it runs on high speed. Translation- you'll also see the condensor fan motor speed change. You'll want to make sure that it's wired properly. Otherwise the unit will start fully loaded and when the second stage pulls in, the unit will unload [reduce capacity] which is backwards from what you want. C is actually the common side of the transformer, R is power. C won't affect the heating system. Irregardless if you need C at the thermostat or not, make darn sure you remove the Rc to Rh jumper or you'll blow that PCB in the air handler as well as the primary control on the oil burner. $$$$$. What is the full model # of the Honeywell thermostats you're considering?
 
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Old 06-17-09, 07:06 PM
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First off, let me thank you again for your help. I think I'm getting closer. (And I think your post with all the xxx's is making this thread wide now (scrolling) or is it just my monitor now?).

Anyway, I was up looking at the air handler tonight. I thought it would be easier than the wiring diagrams. To some degree, I think it did help. I do think we use the Y/Con wire on the air handler though. That's the only Yellow to the condenser.

There are two bundles of wires. One is labeled "To thermostat" and the other is labeled "To Condenser".

The bundle to thermostat seems clear:
-Yellow to Y1
-Purple to Y2
-Red to Rc
-Green to G
- Blue (C), White (W1), Brown (W2) capped and not used.

The condenser seems confusing still, but what you explain above may explain it. According to the wiring diagram on the condenser, I should hook up Y1, Y2, R, and C.

But the bundle of the wires labeled "To Condenser" has the following wires with no other information on them:
-Yellow
-Blue
-Orange
-Red
-Brown

I made the leap to assume Blue and Red from the condenser hook to blue and red of the air handler condenser wire bunch. I then am assuming the purple of the condenser (Y1 on the condenser wiring diagram) goes to the yellow on the air handler. But what about the yellow (Y2) on the condenser? Where does that hook to? And do I have the purple right, should that be Y1? Seems like something is missing?

The A/C guy said I would only use Blue and Yellow, and R. But I didn't see how that would control both stages of the condenser.

The thermostat is the Honeywell RTH7600D. But I think that's squared away now. Having 2 separate bunches of wires on the air handler helped that. I don't think I'd be tying more than 2 wires together.

One more note too - the air handler has dip switches, and one of them controls the thermostat mode of the air handler for 2 stage cooling. It's on page 5 of this document.
http://www.goodmanmfg.com/Portals/0/pdf/SS/SS-GAEPF.pdf
 
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Old 06-17-09, 11:11 PM
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I was wondering why it was wider. I put in the x'x because after I finished that reply it wouldn't post because I kept getting a message that said I hadn't used enough characters. I needed a work around for that glitch but had no idea it would widen out all the messages. I'll know better next time, sorry. If you scroll back a few messages, you'll see I suggested how to wire the condensor. The condensor and AH diagrams are a little inconsistent. What you might try is wire in the AH and thermostat but not the condensor. Then turn on the cooling stages one at a time to see which wires in the condensor wire bundle activate. R and B will be the 24 volt supply to the condensor, you need to find the others.
 
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Old 06-18-09, 05:55 AM
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Thanks. That's what I was trying to figure out - how do I control the stages to check for 1st stage and second.

Since both components are Goodman, I'll give them a call. I called them the other day, but they said they really didn't have tech support for homeowners. Nice.
 
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Old 06-18-09, 08:32 AM
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Finally have the answer. I was able to speak with a very knowledgeable person at Amana/Goodman who cleared it up for me, and provided a few more pointers too. Without the installation manual, we never could have known this (I don't think).

But basically, for two stage cooling, first, dipswitch 4 must be off. This allows for 2 stage cooling with a conventional 2 stage tstat. That I knew from the specs I have on the unit.

But once this is done, if you don't have a heat pump, you can use the orange wire to the condenser as Y1. Or, if you prefer not to confuse colors, inside the unit, on the circuit board, you put a jumper on the Y1 terminal (which already connects to Orange, which is why you can use it if you want), and run it outside the unit through the grommet. You could also, like I think you suggested, just tie the Y1 on the condenser in with the Y1 on the air handler and tstat. But I don't like that. Not clean.

So basically:

Condenser Wiring-->Air Handler Wiring (bundle for condenser):
Y1 (Purple)-->Orange
Y2 (Yellow)-->Yellow
R (Red)--->Red
C (Blue)--->Blue

And as we knew:

Air Handler wiring (tstat bundle)-->Tstat terminal
Purple-->Y1
Yellow-->Y2
Red---->Rc
Blue--->C
Green-->G

He also said to be sure to charge the condenser in low stage only, so to do this, leave the yellow (y2) connection on the air handler bundle disconnected until charging is done.

What an ordeal.

Thanks for all the help.

I figure I'll post the model numbers too, in case someone else searches:

Air handler AEPF426016
Condenser DSX16 or ASX16 (the Amana label)

Again, thanks for keeping on this for me, it helped me get to the bottom of it.
 
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Old 06-18-09, 09:13 AM
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No problem. It's a learning experience for all who will encounter this thread. I saw the O jumper but I hesitated to suggest it because the protocol for O is that it is normally used for the reversing valve on heat pumps. It energizes the RV in cool which is the convention for most manufacturers. Translation- if the RV has a problem the unit will default to heat. Hmm.. Charging in low speed only, new one on me. I imagine that's because the indoor fan will be running slower which will reduce the evaporator superheat. Once you're up and running maybe you can give us an epilogue. Thanks.
 
  #26  
Old 06-18-09, 10:50 AM
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Yes, something about fan speed on charging. The tech said if you charge in high speed, it's very easy to overcharge. I assume the manual for the condenser says something about this, but I'll check when I get it. I'll also be sure to tell the HVAC guy just in case. I'd rather he be annoyed with me if he knows, than risk a mistake.

And now that I've been thinking about it, I will likely just wire nut the Y1 on the condenser to the Y1 on the air handler and tstat. Why not. Just need to be sure the DIP switch is set correctly.

I also learned a ton about air handler orientation and upflow/downflow conversions. So much to learn. But interesting.

And yes, once the condenser is in and all, I will report back.
 
  #27  
Old 06-18-09, 07:12 PM
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Yes this is a weird post

Y or Y1 has always been yellow, and Y2 is usually blue or some other color. Orange is always the reversing valve on a heat pump, ... gonna have to keep my eyes open on those Goodmans... Why can't they follow the industry standard???
 
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Old 06-18-09, 07:46 PM
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Y1 is purple, and Y/Y2 is yellow. That seems like the standard right?

It's just to get the Y1 wire for the condenser, the tech said since the orange was jumped to Y1 on the board already, I could just use that, or, I could just tie the three Y1s together (from the condenser, the air handler Y1, and the Y1 to the tstat).

I need to take a harder look tomorrow night.

Now I'm worried about my the gauge of the tstat wire I ran. I ran 18 gauage 5 conductor, and the run from the tstat to the air handler is around 95', and then to the condenser, another 30' or so. I'm worried about voltage drop...

I have that thread going in the tstat forum. Always something, and so much to learn!
 
  #29  
Old 06-18-09, 08:18 PM
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This is a conventional AC not a heat pump right?

Why are we doing anything with an orange wire... why is a jumper going from Y1 to O...this sounds odd. The Y1 from the stat to the air handler low voltage terminal board Y or Y1 if it has one good, Then send a Y1 yellow to the contactor coil of the condensing unit, then you will need a retun wire (C) for the contactor coils opposite side in the condensing unit...Then a Y2 wire (which ever color you choose) to the air handler Y2 terminal. Then a same colored wire on Y2 of the air handler out to the solenoid unloader on one side or in your case the Y2 wire connection or terminal, and the other side of the solenoid can be wired to the C wire of the contactor (C) wire....you don't need separate return wires for the solenoid unloader since its 24V anyway. Just be sure you don't stick it on the yellow Y1 side....That one will be the 24V hot side... Y and Y1 are the same, its like saying Y to the 1 power in algebra...just say Y. When there are 2 stages they say Y1 and Y2...
 
  #30  
Old 06-18-09, 08:30 PM
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reading the Goodman post

THat looks easy enough to follow in the pic diagram... I guess they want that jumper O in there unless its a heat pump...read all the notes....
 
  #31  
Old 06-19-09, 05:51 AM
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(using my original username now - forgot I had it)

The wires on the air handler are actually pretty well labeled. I'm just tying in to those wires directly without having to touch the board/terminals. Just wire nuts on the bundles.

The issue came up when I didn't see a Y1 (purple) in the bundle to the condenser. But the instruction was that I could just do a 3 way wire nut with the purple in the tstat bundle on the air handler, with the wire going to Y1 on the tstat.

Once Goodman/Amana sent the manual that had the wiring diagram for a 2 stage cooling setup, it became clear. Until I had that, I was pretty confused, and for me at least, the wiring diagram wasn't helping.

Thank you all though, the help is very much appreciated.

Oh one thing - I do need R to the condenser as well right, not just C, Y1 and Y2. You didn't mention it, but it was discussed before. I see it on the condenser wiring diagram, but on the air handler diagram sent by Goodman, it didn't show it either (see link below). It's cooling only, so the top diagram is the one Goodman told me to follow.

Air Handler Wiring from Manual
 
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Old 06-19-09, 06:46 AM
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Actually, Goodman just said that if I'm straight cooling only, Red is not needed. Only the Y1 and Y2, and C. If a heat pump, then you need R to energize the defrost board.

Sound right?
 
  #33  
Old 06-19-09, 09:07 AM
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It looks to me like Goodman needs to get every department at the factory on the same wavelength. Too many inconsistencies in their instructions.
 
  #34  
Old 06-19-09, 06:08 PM
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Seems like it, but at least now I know how to test and hook it all up.

Electrician shows up in the morning to get everything powered up.

Now if the condenser would show up!
 
  #35  
Old 06-22-09, 05:34 PM
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The R wire

It doesn't go to the condensing unit in the diagram...The R wire goes across a wire but there isn't a blackened dot to indicate a connection...some do a curl-Q to go around a wire signifying it isn't connected. Most let you know with a heavey dot . The R wire adventually gets out to the condensing unit after it travels to the thermostat and bridges the gap and then becomes Y1...This travels back to the air handler and will send power to both the airhandler connection, and the condensing unit.
 
  #36  
Old 06-22-09, 06:02 PM
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Thanks.

I didn't hook up R. Just Y1, Y2 and C. Or at least, I tested them. Just need the condenser to arrive!
 
  #37  
Old 06-22-09, 06:15 PM
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Ok

Thats all that appears you need for the condensing unit.
 
  #38  
Old 06-22-09, 06:18 PM
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Is charging the condenser in 1st stage only common practice by the way?
 
  #39  
Old 06-22-09, 06:25 PM
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No

Common practice is to fully load it up and run it under max load conditions. With inverter technology which MAY be what you have is new and the compressor ramps up and down where the standard unloader uses a solenoid to reduce refrigerant flow, Bristol use to make a two speed compressor years ago and they rarely lasted for beans...most techs direct wired them for high speed only because the service calls became too expensive and repetative. Not worth the hassle.
 
  #40  
Old 06-22-09, 06:39 PM
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Not sure what this is. It's the same as the Amana ASX16 line. The tech just said charge in 1st stage only. I would assume the installation manual that comes with it says that, or something like it.
 
 

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