Trane HVAC install price

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Old 09-24-09, 11:03 AM
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Trane HVAC install price

Hello, newbie here. I found this site while researching costs to installl a new Trane HVAC system. It lead me to a great thread on here, but it was 4 yrs old, so I thought i'd post new.

Background, 50 yr old house with 50 yr old furnace (no AC), forced air fueled by natural gas. Want to upgrade to something a little newer, with AC.

A Trane dealer with a good rep came up with this:
XV95 furnace - 2 stg 80K BTU
XLi15 AC - 2.5 ton
coil - 3 ton Aspen
t-stat - T-Con 602/900
mod ductwork to fit

Is this a reasonable combination ?
What would be a reasonable price?

Thanks
 
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Old 09-24-09, 11:10 AM
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Is this a reasonable combination ?
Yes

What would be a reasonable price?
There is no way to answer that question. No one could give an accurate $ with out seeing the scope of work. Also, prices vary through out the country. Besides that, not all contractors get the same pricing from the distributors. Every contractor has a differant overhead,cost, and profit margin.

Focus on the contractor not the price. Hiring a good reputable contractor is the most important thing. I can tell you this, he won't be the cheapest.
 
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Old 09-24-09, 12:37 PM
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As long as the equipment is sized for the house and the ductwork can handle it, it should be alright. However...

The series # given doesn't match what you're provided though, the XV95 is a variable speed furnace, there are no stages per se. The XV90 is 2 stage at 92% efficient.

At 96% efficiency, you're getting 76k output. It seems a little big for having a 2.5 ton condenser but everybody has their own methods of sizing. Biggest problem I've had with new furnaces is that they really need to be sized properly or they don't run right. There are tolerances differences between the brands but over sizing a brand new furnace can be a pain if it goes off on high limit all the time.

I'd also consider having a humidifier thrown in if you don't want to deal with dry air, most companies will knock down the price versus putting it in separately. Forced hot air is rather brutal.

If you know anybody(neighbor) who has work done recently, ask to see their install. A clean looking install is better than reputation alone. Several companies keep portfolios of their installs just for that reason. Also supply houses will occasionally post up pictures of finished installs.

You'll have to price around but once you find a contractor who has it all together, you may have some room to negotiate but don't expect too much. Don't buy into brand hype so much either unless you really want specific functions that that brand offers. I've only found Trane to be a little on the obnoxious side of big(physical size wise) but 410A equipment is going to be big for a while. That and not a fan of their spider coils on the condensers.
 
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Old 09-24-09, 06:23 PM
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Id get a train coil so it will be a matched system and a pro 8000 tstat.
 
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Old 09-24-09, 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by jepp_88 View Post
Background, 50 yr old house
Tell me more about the house.. How many sq ft is it? Has the windows been updated, and good insulation in the attic?


t-stat - T-Con 602/900
The 602 will work with your system as long the dealer wires up the two stage gas on to the t-stat (W1 and W2)

As for the 900, that t-stat will not work with your system, it is a communicating system like the XC90m. Unless they ment the 802 touch screen?

The best t-stat I would suggest is the Honeywell IAQ.

As other said, hard to throw a number out since is vary all over the the board. Get a couple other bids, and ou can see if you are in range.
 
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Old 09-25-09, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Mad39er View Post
As long as the equipment is sized for the house and the ductwork can handle it, it should be alright. However...

The series # given doesn't match what you're provided though, the XV95 is a variable speed furnace, there are no stages per se. The XV90 is 2 stage at 92% efficient.
He wrote 2 stage on the estimate, but the brochure for the XV95 does not say anything about 2 stage, just "variable speed blower motor", "variable speed draft inducer", and "3 stage modulating gas valve". Also has a secondary heat exchanger, does that mean it's 2 stage?

At 96% efficiency, you're getting 76k output. It seems a little big for having a 2.5 ton condenser but everybody has their own methods of sizing. Biggest problem I've had with new furnaces is that they really need to be sized properly or they don't run right. There are tolerances differences between the brands but over sizing a brand new furnace can be a pain if it goes off on high limit all the time.

I'd also consider having a humidifier thrown in if you don't want to deal with dry air, most companies will knock down the price versus putting it in separately. Forced hot air is rather brutal.
Yes, that's an option I intend to add on.

If you know anybody(neighbor) who has work done recently, ask to see their install. A clean looking install is better than reputation alone. Several companies keep portfolios of their installs just for that reason. Also supply houses will occasionally post up pictures of finished installs.

You'll have to price around but once you find a contractor who has it all together, you may have some room to negotiate but don't expect too much. Don't buy into brand hype so much either unless you really want specific functions that that brand offers. I've only found Trane to be a little on the obnoxious side of big(physical size wise) but 410A equipment is going to be big for a while. That and not a fan of their spider coils on the condensers.
Thanks
 
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Old 09-25-09, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Jay11J View Post
Tell me more about the house.. How many sq ft is it? Has the windows been updated, and good insulation in the attic?
Darn, I left the sq ft info at home and can't recall it off hand.
It's not a big house, LR, DR, Kit, and 2 BR on first floor, finished attic as 3rd BR, and a basement.
I updated all the windows a few years back. Insulation of attic and entire house is not that great, IMO.[/quote]

The 602 will work with your system as long the dealer wires up the two stage gas on to the t-stat (W1 and W2)

As for the 900, that t-stat will not work with your system, it is a communicating system like the XC90m. Unless they ment the 802 touch screen?

The best t-stat I would suggest is the Honeywell IAQ.

As other said, hard to throw a number out since is vary all over the the board. Get a couple other bids, and ou can see if you are in range.
I will check more on the t-stat questions. The brochure does say in fine print that the XC95 furnace does require an XL9000 communicating t-stat. But nothing about requirements for the XV95.

Thanks
 
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Old 09-25-09, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by jepp_88 View Post
Darn, I left the sq ft info at home and can't recall it off hand.
It's not a big house, LR, DR, Kit, and 2 BR on first floor, finished attic as 3rd BR, and a basement.
I updated all the windows a few years back. Insulation of attic and entire house is not that great, IMO.
I'd guess around 1,700 sq ft.. My guts say 80k is big, go with a 60k (Unless the dealer has a print out of the Manual-J saying you need a 80K)

If you add more insulation, for sure the 80k is going to never see 2nd stage.


I will check more on the t-stat questions. The brochure does say in fine print that the XC95 furnace does require an XL9000 communicating t-stat. But nothing about requirements for the XV95.
The 900 will NOT work with the XV95, only with the XC95m.

XV95 is a two stage variable speed furnace.
XC95m is a 3 stage modulating variable speed furnace.
 
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Old 11-21-09, 12:48 PM
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Trane xc95m outdoor temp sensor

I have a new trane xc95m that came with an outdoor temp sensor (2 wire..BAYsens02) that is supposed to work with the humidifier control built into the Trane 900xl series touch screen thermostat. Problem is that the install docs assume an 800xl series stat, not the communicating 900xl series thermostat. The 800 series stat has connections on the base plate for the external temp sensors,(as the temp sensor instruction indicate) The 900 series only uses a digital data link to the furnace so all add ons go through the furnace's processor board.

I think that the control board in the furnace has a connection for this (as well as one other) sensor labled TS1 and TS2. The furnace technical manual make no mention of these connections.

Anyone have any insight? This is what I get for buying a bleeding edge furnace. I love the unit but the documentation doesn't seem to have kept up with the hardware.

Thanks ahead of time.
 
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Old 11-21-09, 05:51 PM
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Ok, I've looked high and low, and could not come up with anything.

I"ll look some more and get back to you.
 
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Old 11-22-09, 01:25 PM
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Thanks Jay,

I've wired the 26 v humidifier transformer into the 120v furnace "hum" connection and the 900xl thermostat test 5 "installer humidifier test function" does indeed turn the humidifier water relay on and off as it should. When I hook up the 800xl series outdoor sensor to either the 3 wire TS1 connection on the furnace motherboard or the 2 wire TS2 connection, the 900xl gives me an error 53 which corresponds to the "outdoor temp sensor failure" message in the docs. I'm guessing this unit has a new and improved outdoor (and secondary indoor) temp sensor that is different than the 800xl series temp sensors I got with the furnace. I'm guessing the xc95m furnace uses a "smart sensor" that appears to the 95m to be a "communicating" module that looks like a 2 stage AC compressor or perhaps a "smart" humidifier. All the aux equipment mode settings have a "discovery" option that looks for a "Communicating II" external unit. This communicates with the CPU in the furnace that, in turn, sends a data stream back to the 900xl thermostat. Cripes, gotta love digital electronics!! If I had a direct line to Trane, I'm sure they would know about this but I'm afraid the HVAC Trane dealer in my town is not quite up to speed on this new technology. I've posed this problem to them but have yet to get a response. I'm sure they think I'm a pain in the $%#. I did buy the Trance TAM from them and love to be able to call into my furnace to change the set points..or get an alert when the temp drops below threshold, etc. The dealer basically gave me the TAM unit and told me it "was my baby now" (which is what we agreed on !). Works like a charm!!!

Thanks again,

Chuck
 
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Old 11-22-09, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by kronosargh View Post
When I hook up the 800xl series outdoor sensor to either the 3 wire TS1 connection on the furnace motherboard or the 2 wire TS2 connection,
There's 3 wires on TS1, and 2 on TS2?


I've asked else where, adn the guys did not see anything in their manuals on the outdoor sensor..

I'll post back if I hear more.
 
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Old 11-23-09, 01:07 PM
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I think it's that way. (not looking at it right now). As you are looking at the circuit board, the connector on the right has 3 pins and the one on the left has 2. As I mentioned, I hooked the 120V transformer feed to the black and white AC feeds marked "hum" as the schematic indicates, and it seems to respond SOMEWHAT as I would have expected. The water relay activates under certain heat/fan combos. Not quite what I would have excpected. I have the humidity setting on the 900xl set to 55% and the reading on the internal humidity sensor reads 45%. I can't seem to get it above that. I have the humidity contro; setting (#374 on the stat setup, I think) set to "relative humidity not "Dewpoint". It looks like "dewpoint" uses the outdoor temperature sensor to prevent window fogging when it's cold outside. If worse comes to worse, I can buy an Aprilaire #58 humidity controller and do it that way but, given I paid good money for the Trane 900xl and xc95m furnace, I was hoping for a more elegant solution. Oh well..we'll see if I get any more infor from you guys or the manufacturer. Thanks again for your help !! Keep me posted if you fine anything else out.

Chuck
 
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Old 11-23-09, 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted by kronosargh View Post
I think it's that way. (not looking at it right now). As you are looking at the circuit board, the connector on the right has 3 pins and the one on the left has 2.
I would not wire it till we know for a fact what's the correct way to wire this before something gets damaged.

I've asked a Pro on another board, and so far no luck. The Mod system is some what new, so will keep you posted!


As I mentioned, I hooked the 120V transformer feed to the black and white AC feeds marked "hum" as the schematic indicates, and it seems to respond SOMEWHAT as I would have expected. The water relay activates under certain heat/fan combos.
HUM will only power up when the heat is called for.

Not quite what I would have excpected.
What were you expecting?

I have the humidity setting on the 900xl set to 55% and the reading on the internal humidity sensor reads 45%. I can't seem to get it above that.
Wow, 55% is WAY too high.. 40% is all you need.

It looks like "dewpoint" uses the outdoor temperature sensor to prevent window fogging when it's cold outside.
Correct.
 
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Old 11-23-09, 08:10 PM
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Ok, so far what I've been told, and I even looked it up.

It needs to pair up with the Comfort Link outdoor units. XL20i, and XL16i units. the outdoor units has the sensor built into it, and then commucata with the system inside.

Carrier is the same.

Did you get a new A/C?
 
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Old 11-24-09, 03:23 PM
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I realize 55% is way to high..I was just trying to get it to energize. The "hum" circuit is working..what I expected was for it to always energize when the burners and blower were "on". This is not the case. The blower on the 95m is a fully modulated blower. It looks like it needs to above a certain speed before it energizes the "hum" circuit. Not sure what speed that is. No, unfortunately I have a "dumb" single stage trane 2 ton compressor. I think I'm just going to buy an Aprilaire #58 humidistat with it's outdoor temp sensor and forget about a fully integrated thermostat/humidistat. If I had it to do over, I'd have passed on the Honeywell/Trane 900xl stat and bought the Honewell IAQ that does have the outdoor temp sensor connection on the stat. Thanks for your help.

Chuck
 
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Old 11-27-09, 04:18 PM
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Well, Iv'e figured out that the Trane XL900 Thermostat and XM95M gas furnace (thank you Jay and all on this board) won't insterface an outdoor temp sensor to tell the XL900 humidstat circuit that it's too cold outside to turn up the humidity high enough not to fog the windows..without buying a 3000.00 plus "Comfortlink II AC compressor that has the necessary datalink circuitry that allows the sensor, but an 85.00 Aprilaire #58 humidistat will..which I now own and it works very well//but now I have 2 CONTROLS.

Now I want to know if the 250.00 Trane TAM (telephone access module) has an internet equivalant that allows control of the stat via the internet rather than just the telephome that the TAM allows. The Trane vendor seems to be in the dark aobout this technology. Not new..If you look in the Home Security part of this board, you'll see that the large (ADT) dealers don't seem to have a clue about this type of communicating interface technology either. (Yes..I have one and they can't get beyond the basic functionality of the alarm systm either) I DO KNOW that commercial HVAC and SECURITYvendors do understand and support this type of remote monitoring and control of HVAC and security systems. I guess it's just not time for our homes.;-[

Crap
 
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Old 11-27-09, 06:32 PM
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careful on humidity

if you get a bit too much moisture, it will condense inside the walls and you'll never know it till the mold appears or the framing decays or paint on the outside of the house bubbles up, or termites appears... This is a surefire way to destroy a house in a very short time span...
i.e. Max set points outdoor temp of 20F=35%, 10F=30%,0F=25%,-10F=20%, -20F=15%.... Keep in mind these are the Max set points.
 

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Old 11-27-09, 07:38 PM
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I will disagree. It will condense on windows way before then!
 
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Old 11-29-09, 08:53 PM
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Wink condensate

oh yeah, it will show up there too! Do ya think I just grab those stats willy, nilly... No way would I remember that. I do remember seeing my brothers house bubble out paint from moisture alone without any humidifier... Some homes leak in areas more than others. Moisture will always go from higher to lower ALWAYS! Even 4 mil plastic has a perm rating (.08). Through penetrations, in all buildings, like electrical outlets, cable TV, Telephone, plumbing...the moisture gets in there in an attemp to balance with the outdoor air, it also goes through the paint, plaster....I'll give you, at a much slower rate, but mold can make people sick, or destroy a building.
I saw one that was less than 5 years old falling apart and rotting back in the 90's. Was it due to a humidifier?... I doubt it. I can't recall the exact sourse, (20 years ago) but do remember the problem was humidity from within the structure...Just saying follow the guides posted on your humidifier or humidistat...
 
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Old 03-07-10, 02:53 PM
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More Trane Communicating systems questions

I have (and am quite happy with) a Trane XC95M gas furnace with an XL900 communicating thermostat. I also have the TAM (Telephone Access Module) that calls my cell with programmable error codes and allows me to change the settings with the phone. What it DOES NOT allow is the ability to use the internet to do these functions..even though the TAM has a "blank" RJ45 plug that obviously was designed for Ethernet connectivity. I have found a Trane analog (i.e. 4 (or 5) wire thermostat that is controlled by Z-Wave technology hosted by Schlage Locks that does what I want but it's not a "Communicating II" stat that the furnace requires. Seems like there would be a way to do this but I'm not getting much from the local Trane dealers that sold me the unit and Trane won't even respond to "end users"

Any help would be appreciated!!
 
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Old 03-07-10, 03:47 PM
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New stat on the way in July that will do this. Can get it from a comfort specialist. next year for anybody else.
 
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Old 07-08-10, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by airman.1994 View Post
New stat on the way in July that will do this. Can get it from a comfort specialist. next year for anybody else.
So is this a new Tstat or an upgraded TAM module?? Getting ready to install an XL 19I 5 ton heat pump with a comunicating(2TEE) air hadler and a Trane tcont900 ,thermostat. I too would like to be able to access the system through the Internet, but would really like to interface with my home automation system that I already have an I-Phone app for.

I have an HAI OmniPro II security/automation system that has its own line of communicating omnstats, but really would rather interface to one of these auto discovering Trane/honeywell T900 thermostats.

So is this new internet access capability a function of the Tstat or TASM module?

This is my first post, so do not shoot me LOL

Jim
 
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Old 07-08-10, 07:57 PM
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Called today about it for you. They have not gotten back to me. You will have to excuse my knowledge on this. The one they have now you have to call in on a phone line. The new one will use y-fi.
 
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Old 07-11-10, 09:24 PM
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Originally Posted by airman.1994 View Post
Called today about it for you. They have not gotten back to me. You will have to excuse my knowledge on this. The one they have now you have to call in on a phone line. The new one will use y-fi.
Thanks for checking for me.

Jim
 
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