don't want to buy a new system. please help!


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Old 04-21-10, 05:02 PM
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don't want to buy a new system. please help!

Once the thermostat activates, the air handler will start to prime up, while the condenser outside turns on. After a few min, the fan outside remains on but the air handler simply makes noises as if the freeon is rushing through the pipes and no air is discharged. Almost as if the condenser is pushing freeon and the airhandler isn't turning on. Could something be broken in the air handler? i've replaced t stats over and over just because. but to no avail

I can switch the thermostat to off, wait 5 min, turn it back on and the system works. a bit longer i repeat.
 
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Old 04-22-10, 03:35 PM
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seems like your blower motor is bad, call a tech. well wait, can you turn fan on from the tstat and have it blow air?
 
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Old 04-23-10, 02:27 PM
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i sure can. i even replaced the capacitor on the blower.

could it be a relay?
 
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Old 04-23-10, 03:09 PM
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Well, in cooling the stat will energize "G" (the fan) and "Y" (the outside unit) at the same time. When all this happens is the fan in auto or on?

What is the make of both units? What are the model and serial numbers?
 
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Old 04-23-10, 03:43 PM
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The air handler inside is made by goodman manufactering
Model AW24-05C and the condenser outside also made by goodman and it's model number is CK24-1B

The T. Stat is on auto.

Personally, no one ever wants to buy a new system. In my case, I build roads and not AC's so my knowledge is very vague and I look for people like yourself for help, yet I feel there is something easy I can replace to fix this. I just don't know what.

The fan works on cue when set to "on". new capacitors both inside and out. new t stat. coils are clean.
 
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Old 04-23-10, 03:53 PM
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time delay fan relay?? could it be possible?
 
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Old 04-23-10, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by hockey4418
time delay fan relay?? could it be possible?
In the Goodman, very unlikely. Kmart wouldn't sell Goodman if they could. Maybe in the stat?

Try setting the fan to "on" and then turn on the A/C and see what happens.
 
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Old 04-23-10, 04:36 PM
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Do you have a motherboard in the airhandler that the blower wires plug in at? Look.

And see if you have several blower wires plugged to different things printed on the board, like HEAT, COOL, PARK. If you have a multimeter, you could see if the blower wire hooked to COOL is loosing voltage at that terminal connection or not. One test-end of your meter should contact the COOL terminal while the other test-end shoud touch to good metal on the furnace.
 
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Old 04-23-10, 06:26 PM
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I WISH it was that easy. but I do not have a motherboard. just relays and transformers.
 
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Old 04-23-10, 06:57 PM
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When the fan is running outside, is the compressor running also?

You cannot SEE it run, but you can hear it make that discernible ERRRRRRRR sound you can actually duplicate with your voice by humming ERRRRRRRR.

Go into handler when this problem occurs and wrap on relays with handle of screwdriver, to see if blower comes back on.
 
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Old 04-23-10, 07:05 PM
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When the sysem is acting up, the T. stat activates and the compressor outside turns on and the inside handler sounds like bubbles almost going through the freeon pipe. The fan motor never turns on.

I can immediately switch the T. stat from "cool" to "off" and switch the fan from "auto" to "on" and fan will go on just fine. I can wait min or so and put the T. stat back to cool and i'm back in buisness.

My unit outside sounds normal when this all happens. I did read online that a condo assoc was having problems with this unit and had to replace the time delay fan relay. But they didn't say the symptoms.
thanks again.
Right now and for the last 1-2 hrs. great cool air. just doooon't get it!!
 
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Old 04-23-10, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Jarredsdad
Try setting the fan to "on" and then turn on the A/C and see what happens.
And the result was???????
 
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Old 04-24-10, 03:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Jarredsdad
In the Goodman, very unlikely. Kmart wouldn't sell Goodman if they could. Maybe in the stat?

Try setting the fan to "on" and then turn on the A/C and see what happens.
Results:
T. Stat settings: "off" and fan set to "on" - result: fan turns on
T. Stat settings: fan still set to on "on" set to "cool" - result: fan remains on, condenser outside turs on, cold air blowing, T. Stat reaches designated degree, condenser turns off, fan remains on.
Thank you
 
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Old 04-24-10, 07:49 AM
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Good deal. Get a new stat. A good Honeywell VisionPro. Look at the Honeywell site. DO NOT go to a box store to get a thermostat!

Thermostats | Programmable Thermostats | Digital Thermostat | Thermostat | Honeywell Thermostats
 
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Old 04-24-10, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by hockey4418
Results: T. Stat reaches designated degree, condenser turns off, fan remains on.
Thank you
What fan we talking about here? In your OP, you say the outside fan remains on, (just like what you say above), but the handler blower quits. What are you refering to now, in your quote snippet above?
 
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Old 04-24-10, 11:13 AM
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ec, I think that the stat isn't turning the indoor fan on with the condenser in auto mode.

With the fan on at the stat, everything works. Bad stat.
 
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Old 04-24-10, 11:17 AM
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Or, stat not programed correctly?

Hockey, what is the make and model of the stat you have? Could be a programing issue?
 
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Old 04-24-10, 12:20 PM
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He has already replaced the stat it sounds at least a couple times. That is scary to me, to have him yet spend more money on another. Even an elcheapo should work enough to make his system work, IMO.

I think he needs to verify that when the blower quits, if the stat is perhaps off (instead of still on, like he might think), and the contactor outside is stuck closed, for example. Not unless hockey already ruled that out by turning the temp way down on the stat, so he pretty much knows there is no way the stat shut off. Although there still is a presumption, unless one takes a meter and tests down in the handler's 24 volt terminal strip.

There also may be an issue if he has say an Rc connection where maybe a wire hookup there is loose or bad somewhere. It also be interesting to see a wiring diagram, to see if there is a relay that could be not staying closed, in the blower circuit. We have to be aware that in his OP, he made it clear that the problem is not that the blower does not work in AUTO. The issue is it comes on, but does not stay on.

There also could be an issue with the high-speed wiring circuit in the blower motor, if only that one speed is designated for cooling. If it is, one could verify, with a test meter, if power remains at the COOL board connector or not, when the blower shuts off in COOL-AUTO mode. This information could eliminate or condemn the cooling speed wiring in the motor. But - this issue really does not seem like the cause, since he can run it in COOL, when he manually turns on the fan, using the G circuit, rather than an Rc circuit. So it really does not look like the blower motor is the culprit.

I am more suspicious of a bad wire or connection at Rc, or a bad relay/timer that is in the Rc circuit.

I am tempted to run to a rental with heat-fan-ac on/auto, to check out my theories on the wiring hookup. Ya, I think I will. I know where I can go where the place is vacant. Now that we are approaching our own cooling season here, I have to put away my heating thinking cap and refresh and put on my cooling thinking cap.

...........................................................................................................................

I just got back from that vacant home. It has digital stat Rh and Rc jumpered, with only R in terminal strip in furnace. Meaning, in AUTO, the blower will come on when either the W (thru R heat) or Y (thru R cool) is energized. Wiring diagram shows before the blower, a multi-contact fan relay. with many of the blower speed wires attached to it. So I'd be looking at stuff I mentioned above.

If it were the stat, I'm afraid you would have to be one of the most unlucky dudes alive, to have that many stats that do not keep the blower going, IMO.
 

Last edited by ecman51; 04-24-10 at 02:17 PM.
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Old 04-24-10, 02:19 PM
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I agree ec. Might be more to the back story than meets the eye. I'll say it again. Love your logic!
 
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Old 04-24-10, 02:49 PM
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That is why I am internal wreck inside. Last night, after going to bed at 2:30, listening to tv talk show hosts and THEIR logic (one of my hobbies), I could not sleep, thinking about all kinds of stuff (like that lead paint garage, and how I am helping other maintenace men even, be maintenance men, and not getting paid for it - and the risks I take with trying to be this jack of all trades pro and not making mistakes in diagnostics or accidents. And then dealing with cars blowing head gaskets all the time. I could go on, but I will spare you.
 
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Old 04-24-10, 04:06 PM
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yeah probably is a relay, but like just do what uve been doin, leave fan on all the time and let the condenser come on and off as it pleases. i guess you should find out how those relays work, they are all different how they work i mean, and find out if any are bad.
 
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Old 04-26-10, 01:16 PM
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wow..thanks for your help. I just got back from buisness. I am going to read your posts and reply.
 
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Old 04-26-10, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Jarredsdad
Good deal. Get a new stat. A good Honeywell VisionPro. Look at the Honeywell site. DO NOT go to a box store to get a thermostat!

Thermostats | Programmable Thermostats | Digital Thermostat | Thermostat | Honeywell Thermostats
I've "heard" honeywells do not do well with goodman. Could be the guy simplying trying to sell me a luxpro. Your thoughts?
 
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Old 04-26-10, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Jarredsdad
Hockey, what is the make and model of the stat you have? Could be a programing issue?
its a honeywell. the progamming seems to be fine. model RTH2300B
the wires are connected correct. I checked the opposite ends to the handler with the schematic and it checks out.
 
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Old 04-26-10, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by ecman51`
He has already replaced the stat it sounds at least a couple times. That is scary to me, to have him yet spend more money on another. Even an elcheapo should work enough to make his system work, IMO.

I think he needs to verify that when the blower quits, if the stat is perhaps off (instead of still on, like he might think), and the contactor outside is stuck closed, for example. Not unless hockey already ruled that out by turning the temp way down on the stat, so he pretty much knows there is no way the stat shut off. Although there still is a presumption, unless one takes a meter and tests down in the handler's 24 volt terminal strip.

There also may be an issue if he has say an Rc connection where maybe a wire hookup there is loose or bad somewhere. It also be interesting to see a wiring diagram, to see if there is a relay that could be not staying closed, in the blower circuit. We have to be aware that in his OP, he made it clear that the problem is not that the blower does not work in AUTO. The issue is it comes on, but does not stay on.

There also could be an issue with the high-speed wiring circuit in the blower motor, if only that one speed is designated for cooling. If it is, one could verify, with a test meter, if power remains at the COOL board connector or not, when the blower shuts off in COOL-AUTO mode. This information could eliminate or condemn the cooling speed wiring in the motor. But - this issue really does not seem like the cause, since he can run it in COOL, when he manually turns on the fan, using the G circuit, rather than an Rc circuit. So it really does not look like the blower motor is the culprit.

I am more suspicious of a bad wire or connection at Rc, or a bad relay/timer that is in the Rc circuit.

I am tempted to run to a rental with heat-fan-ac on/auto, to check out my theories on the wiring hookup. Ya, I think I will. I know where I can go where the place is vacant. Now that we are approaching our own cooling season here, I have to put away my heating thinking cap and refresh and put on my cooling thinking cap.

...........................................................................................................................

I just got back from that vacant home. It has digital stat Rh and Rc jumpered, with only R in terminal strip in furnace. Meaning, in AUTO, the blower will come on when either the W (thru R heat) or Y (thru R cool) is energized. Wiring diagram shows before the blower, a multi-contact fan relay. with many of the blower speed wires attached to it. So I'd be looking at stuff I mentioned above.

If it were the stat, I'm afraid you would have to be one of the most unlucky dudes alive, to have that many stats that do not keep the blower going, IMO.
that was a wealth of great information. I am under the assumption that the T. stat turns on and off by the contact noice in the T. Stat I hear by standing next to it. Either going up or down in temp, then by going outside and confirming with the Condenser being on or off. I unfortunently do not retain any meter devices and honestly wouldn't even know what to do!!

I purchased for 20 bucks a new relay. I am going to change out the relay and make sure all other wires are nicely snug around their respective prong. I will let you know what happens! After this, I presume any further replacements could get more $$$, hopefully it doesn't come down to that.

I will let you know! ::Crossing my fingers::
 
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Old 04-28-10, 06:58 AM
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Well I'm on day 2 and the system so far is working with the new time delay fan relay.

The question still remains, is there really a conflict with a honeywell t. stat working with a goodman?
 
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Old 04-28-10, 03:04 PM
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No, should work fine. A tstat is just a glorified set of switches in the first place. Just that some are better than others.
 
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Old 04-30-10, 08:55 AM
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Got it! Well thanks again. I hope this thread will be able to help someone else out.
 
 

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