2 yer old Goodman compressor dead?


  #1  
Old 04-28-13, 08:06 AM
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2 yer old Goodman compressor dead?

2010
1. Tweaker s were kind enough to recycle my copper.

2011

2. Brand new goodman with 2 year labor (Outside heat pump)
3. Old system R22, New system *Outside 410* (new valve upstairs)
4. Billed for "Clean out" Guessing it was NEVER done.
5. Compressor trips breaker, New breaker installed. Compressor works for 50 seconds trips breaker.
6. Outside unit tested from second HVAC man, Capacitor good.
*HVAC Man* tested unit for two hours, bypassed and ohm meter tested.
7. HVAC man determined compressor is "Froze Up"
8. HVAC man asked for $9,000

a. I managed to get him down to $3,000 if I change out the dirty coils in attic.
b. I found a new 4 tonn Goodman heat pump condenser on ebay for $1300 with 10 year parts ONLY warranty (I will have no labor warranty*

Possible ideas, try to RMA the compressor and have the local welder man install the unit after its been reclaimed of the 410 oil and gas.

Either way the HVAC man is suggesting it will break and break and break unless I change out all of the copper upstairs and down and said "I can burn $60 cans of cleaner all day and still get black oil coming out that will BREAK your new unit in 2 years.

So Im chasing my money, and im not wanting to get ripped off by either tweakers or lazy HVAC men who dont actually do the work well.
 
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Old 04-28-13, 01:13 PM
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You really need a new compressor and EVAPORATOR and metering device.... Line set needs flushed.... Ensure driers are used during the process as well.

Was a hard start kit tried to "free up" the compressor? Was a megohm test done on compressor windings?
Without being there we can't completely diagnose the compressor over the internet.
 
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Old 04-28-13, 04:44 PM
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Thanks so much for helping me.

I dont know if they did a megaohm. I did not try a hard start cap.
I do know he used an ohm metering device and tested for two hours.

He only said "Froze up, $10,000"

Dang I wish I could use those kind of one liners at the singles bar,

"You looked at me, spread em baby and fetch me a beer"
Thats kind of how it appeared to me.
 
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Old 04-28-13, 04:46 PM
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Find a new contractor!,.............
 
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Old 04-29-13, 04:43 AM
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I have an older Janitrol [goodman] HP and the compressor was guaranteed for 10 yrs. My installer provided a 5 yr labor warranty but unfortunately he went out of business and when the compressor quit it cost me $500 labor, the part was covered by warranty. I am not a HVAC expert! only know a little as a consumer.

btw - welcome to the forums!
 
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Old 04-29-13, 05:13 AM
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Well, seems like things are getting awfully costly for those needing major A/C work.

The government should not have done away with the 10 & 12 SEER units; I remember how I used to install new compressors & condensers at very affordable costs for my customers.

There are reasons that compressor failed; poorly installed condenser & setup...
 
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Old 04-29-13, 07:10 AM
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marksr, did that fix the issue? You had to pay for freon also? (R410 or what ever)
Did it break again?

HVAC RETIRED, I need to replace the entire outside unit for $1300? (Part only)
Then the tech wanted ton of cash to flush, nearly $80 an hour for 5 hours of cleaning and what he says "Charging the system with nitrogen" to make sure its stable. Lots of doing nothing he said.

He is 100% sure all my coils can not and NEVER be cleaned and will bust my condenser again.

Im half tempted to install the compressor only for $500 labor and just make it another year.
Tech said it was badly installed from the get go and full of R22 mixed with 410 oil.

I have been reading on another forum hundreds of examples of fly by night install jobs that get fixed every 2 years.

Or im looking down a very dark money cannon to do this over.
 
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Old 04-29-13, 12:31 PM
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As long as no freon is lost, there shouldn't be a charge for it. They recover it in a canister and then put it back in. Unfortunately, the repair didn't last as long as it should have, the next tech said the reason was because of they didn't replace the drier/filter. Goodman did supply the 2nd replacement compressor under warranty. That repair lasted and was a little cheaper - I think he cut me a break because of the previous bad job.
 
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Old 04-29-13, 03:42 PM
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The refrigerant in a system with a failed compressor should NEVER be reused. And, again, you need to replace the compressor and the evaporator and metering device and flush the lineset to be certain of no future failures due to known issues with leaving the metering device and evap coil from on old R22 system and changing to a R410A system. It will cost money to be done correctly..... Pay for it now... or pay for it over and over and over again.
 
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Old 05-01-13, 08:27 AM
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I called the man who installed my broken heat pump, this is what he said/

1. Will come on thursday
2. We installed it with OUT ANY mixed up oil or R22 and 410
3. Installed it propperley.
4. YOur new tech is well known to "Upsell" entire packages and never will repair it.
5. He can and will RMA my compressor,

Bad thing is he thought it was going to cost $800 after the welding and flushing and new refrigerant.

However he said its the cheapest way and I dont need new coils and if could even be an electrical short from the DEAD frog that had melted the wires at some point in the winter.

He also said he does this for the past 30 years and yes at times goodman units work for decades and sometimes they just break and then you get them fixed not $10,000 for entire house system.
 
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Old 05-01-13, 11:53 AM
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However, he said, its the cheapest way and I don't need new coils and it could even be an dead short from the DEAD frog that had melted the wires at some point in the winter
.
First, you repair the burnt wiring problem; then the compressor may run.
The over heated conductor areas can cause a voltage drop to the point that the compressor draws too many amps with also a delayed start, which can cause the breaker to trip!

The very high resistance of the overheated conductor area would not necessarily cause damage to the compressor windings as a properly sized breaker can trip quick enough to prevent damage.

That is why it is important not to oversize conductors to the condenser & then oversize the breakers.

The electrical condition of capacitors & the compressor should also be checked.
 
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Old 05-02-13, 06:30 PM
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The orgional installer came over. He said in a very long time he has never had a goodman belly up in so little time.

He got right to the point and bypassed the wires that were burnt.

The compressor came on, flipped the breaker.

They both said it sounds like the compressor not only died but "Burnt" and the shaft or some gear what ever in there "Cooked" from the voltage when the frog got on the wire.

He said that exact wire the frog died on powerd the compressor causing it to "Burn"

He said the "Freon" had been contaminated and also cooked or burnt and had turned black.

He said $800 total it can make it work as every other component tested 100% ok.

$800 was for cleaning out the pipes and new coolant and welding and shipping of the under warranty compressor..

Either way $800 if I can make it work another few years then better then $3000 for new everything/
 
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Old 05-02-13, 07:20 PM
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Did he check the capacitors, the contactor points, & everything; did the fan motor start to run at all? Breakers can go bad, too; but a guess he has got it right...

Every component going to the compressor should be checked; but if the refrigerant smells or tests bad, then you got a major cleanup to do.
 
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Old 05-02-13, 08:08 PM
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yes the fan worked, he bypassed pretty much everything and said he could detect some kind of clanking when the compressor came on, a bad kind of clanking with the shaft.

The freon stuff was foul and burnt.

Sucks,
 
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Old 05-03-13, 01:28 PM
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Does any one think it was because the installer did a piss pore job of flushing the unit 2 years ago?
Just asking because Im not sure this guy like hard work, as in proper clean out.
 
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Old 05-04-13, 04:59 AM
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It has some to do with that yes.... You need a NEW EVAPORATOR and the line set flushed without the EVAP installed.
 
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Old 05-04-13, 07:01 AM
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you guys are very kind,

The Evap is the upstairs coils? At this point thy tech wants money for everything because he is pissed he is not making bank on the compressor. I dont know this guy must drive a ferrari because $800 in labor for one half day is not enough,
 
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Old 05-04-13, 10:37 AM
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If your old unit was a 10 seer and the current one is 13+ seer, the coil should not be re-used.

13+ seer models need a larger coils to operate at rated capacity and efficiency.

The metering device also has to match the outdoor unit and refrigerant type.

If the entire system is really contaminated, the best option is to replace the condenser, lineset, and coil rather than attempt to change the coil, compressor, and clean up the system

It obviously wasn't done right (possibly causing the compressor to fail) and fixing it up properly may cost you more than half as much as a new system. Just changing the failed compressor may result in more problems down the road, especially if the indoor coil is not a good match to the outdoor unit.
 
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Old 05-04-13, 12:37 PM
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Excellent advice, Muggle; - start over with everything new & properly matched.

Do a load-calc so you can do some Retro-work & then possibly install a smaller condenser. Check the entire duct system for leaks & proper sizing; I'd run a manual D on it to see if it'll deliver enough airflow to & from the rooms.
 
 

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