X13 ECM to PSC Blower Motor Conversion

Reply

  #121  
Old 04-26-14, 03:58 PM
Houston204's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 7,356
Likes Received: 7
Probably, but we could check outdoor unit components.

Post a pic of the components in your outdoor unit control box.
 
Sponsored Links
  #122  
Old 04-26-14, 04:05 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 125
Let me know if they are not clear enough.
 
Attached Images   
  #123  
Old 04-26-14, 04:11 PM
Houston204's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 7,356
Likes Received: 7
The control board it tough to see. Is this a heat pump? I may need double check your posted thermostat to see if it supports multistage heat pumps.

Do you have 2 wires or 6 wires coming from the air handler into your outdoor unit?
What is the model number?
 
  #124  
Old 04-26-14, 04:16 PM
Houston204's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 7,356
Likes Received: 7
I've seen high voltage take out the reversing valve solenoid coil, the defrost control and the contactor in heat pumps before.

We can measure the ohm reading of the solenoid coil and the contactor.
(should be ~12 ohms)

Turn off the breaker or service disconnect to the outdoor unit.

The control board in the indoor unit is also suspect.
 
  #125  
Old 04-26-14, 04:19 PM
Houston204's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 7,356
Likes Received: 7
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s.../Contactor.jpg

Turn off power to the indoor unit as well then unplug the 2 low voltage wires to the contactor and measure the ohm reading across them.
 
  #126  
Old 04-26-14, 04:20 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 125
It is a heat pump. I checked to coil below the relay in the photo and it had 0 volts.

The Model # is: 25HBR336A300
 
Attached Images  
  #127  
Old 04-26-14, 04:23 PM
Houston204's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 7,356
Likes Received: 7
Unplug the harness on the control board then turn the dial on your meter to the 6:00 position. It should say 200 below the dial.

Unplug the two 24 volt wires on the contactor
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s.../Contactor.jpg
and place one meter lead on each 24 volt terminal and post your reading.
 
  #128  
Old 04-26-14, 04:25 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 125
Do you know which color the 2 low voltage wires are? How do I measure OHM's. Is there a setting on the tester?
 
  #129  
Old 04-26-14, 04:30 PM
Houston204's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 7,356
Likes Received: 7
The terminal on the right is brown with a yellow stripe and the one on the left is yellow. The picture that I posted tells you which are the low voltage leads.

Turn the dial on your meter until the indicator is pointing down to the 6:00 position. This position should be your 200 Ohm scale. We are looking for ~12 ohms. (If your contactor stinks severely like burned wiring we do not need to test it further.)
 
  #130  
Old 04-26-14, 04:30 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 125
The reading keeps fluctuating up and down steadily.
 
  #131  
Old 04-26-14, 04:33 PM
Houston204's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 7,356
Likes Received: 7
post the 3 numbers most displayed....
 
  #132  
Old 04-26-14, 04:35 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 125
I got a reading of 1.5 on the yellow and brown with yellow stripe.
 
  #133  
Old 04-26-14, 04:39 PM
Houston204's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 7,356
Likes Received: 7
Less than 3 is shorted. The contactor requires replacement.

The reversing valve solenoid coil is a little tougher to test since it is by the compressor. If you can trace the leads into your control box you can check in there as well but I usually test at the reversing valve.

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s...ersingvlve.jpg

Usually need to remove 3 or 4 5/16 or 3/8" screws to gently flip the top over and move it aside.

I will try to bring up a manual. Maybe it would be safer to test in the control box. We do not want to add a bent fan to the shopping list.
 
  #134  
Old 04-26-14, 04:40 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 125
3.6
11.5
14.8

Very erratic readings.
 
  #135  
Old 04-26-14, 04:43 PM
Houston204's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 7,356
Likes Received: 7
Did you unplug the 2 wires there before testing?

Does it smell burnt?
 
  #136  
Old 04-26-14, 04:44 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 125
To test at the reversing valve I will need to remove the fan guard from the top of the unit.
 
  #137  
Old 04-26-14, 04:47 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 125
The wires do not smell burnt.
 
  #138  
Old 04-26-14, 04:49 PM
Houston204's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 7,356
Likes Received: 7
http://dms.hvacpartners.com/docs/100.../25hbr3-1w.pdf

You may be able to unplug the harness that has 2 orange wires running to the reversing valve and measure the pins in the harness. (to avoid removing the fan)

I do not like your meter very much. Home depot has some decent Klein meters for a very good price.
 
  #139  
Old 04-26-14, 04:59 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 125
1.7 at the pins. I am going to go to Home Depot later to get the Klein meter and then resume testing tomorrow. It is getting dark here. Thank you Houston so very much!
 
  #140  
Old 04-26-14, 05:04 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 125
Is there still a chance it can be inside control board? Any way to test that?
 
  #141  
Old 04-26-14, 05:06 PM
Houston204's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 7,356
Likes Received: 7
I use a Klein CL2300 meter daily. I prefer it over my Fluke 902 HVAC meter.

The CL200 has decent specs.

There is still a chance that you need 2 control boards 1 thermostat, 1 reversing valve solenoid coil and possibly 1 contactor. I have seen this a few times when high voltage gets to the low voltage circuit.

What board are you referring to?
 
  #142  
Old 04-26-14, 05:12 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 125
I meant the inside board. Do you have any idea how much all those parts would cost?
 
  #143  
Old 04-26-14, 05:17 PM
Houston204's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 7,356
Likes Received: 7
I'd guess the boards run ~ $150 each, a contactor is ~$30, and the solenoid coil is ~ $50 if you do it yourself. Probably 4 times that if you have it done for you.

I went to Carrier to buy the solenoid coil. I'm not sure how easy it is to find online.
Everything else should be readily available online.

If you post the numbers on the boards I may be able to give you more accurate prices.
Amazon may have everything.
 
  #144  
Old 04-26-14, 05:24 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 125
Thank you again Houston.
 
  #145  
Old 04-26-14, 08:27 PM
Houston204's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 7,356
Likes Received: 7
In rereading some of your posts I am uncertain if your are checking the correct locations in the heat pump so I will try to clarify a little better...

To test the solenoid coil from the control box we need to place the meter leads on the wires to the solenoid. They are orange and can be measured at the harness.

To test the contactor coil we do not place the leads on the wire we must place the leads on the terminals.

The part that smell burnt is the copper windings in the contactor and solenoid coil. The wires to these components might not have any odor.
 
  #146  
Old 04-27-14, 09:44 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 125
I went to Home Depot and got the Klein MM 200, so I am going to start testing.

I tested the 2 orange wires to the solenoid at the harness. The reading with the Klein Mm 200 started at 10.0 and climbed to 15.0. It kept repeating this cycle.
 

Last edited by henry34florida; 04-27-14 at 10:07 AM.
  #147  
Old 04-27-14, 10:16 AM
Houston204's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 7,356
Likes Received: 7
That is great news. The reversing valve solenoid coil would have been harder to get.
 
  #148  
Old 04-27-14, 10:22 AM
Houston204's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 7,356
Likes Received: 7
Did the contactor recheck okay?
 
  #149  
Old 04-27-14, 10:24 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 125
Where the 2 wires were disconnected from the outside relay, the reading went from 4.89, 17.4, 32.8, 52.0 and 100.0. Kept cycling.

Does the power need to be on or off to check the contactor coil? Do I use any specific posts?
 
  #150  
Old 04-27-14, 10:30 AM
Houston204's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 7,356
Likes Received: 7
That is odd. A 9 volt battery can be used to power the coil and close the contacts for testing.
 
  #151  
Old 04-27-14, 10:36 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 125
I hope I am using the tester correctly. I set it to the resistance setting.

This is the tester I got.
 
Attached Images  
  #152  
Old 04-27-14, 10:58 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 125
So what is the next step?
 
  #153  
Old 04-27-14, 11:14 AM
Houston204's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 7,356
Likes Received: 7
A visual inspection of the back of each circuit board should be performed.
Low voltage power is provided by the indoor unit so both breakers should be off to check the defrost control board in your heat pump.
 
  #154  
Old 04-27-14, 11:32 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 125
These are photos of the inside and outside circuit boards.

I didn't notice anything unusual.
 
Attached Images   
  #155  
Old 04-27-14, 11:34 AM
Houston204's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 7,356
Likes Received: 7
The top board appears damaged to me.
 
  #156  
Old 04-27-14, 11:36 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 125
Is it the dark spot on the lower left?
 
  #157  
Old 04-27-14, 11:39 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 125
Here is another photo of the air handler circuit board.
 
Attached Images  
  #158  
Old 04-27-14, 11:40 AM
Houston204's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 7,356
Likes Received: 7
The top a little to the right and the lower left.
The indoor board has already shown us that it doesn't work when we jump out the stat.

Looks like we can put everything back together, jump out the stat and the indoor board and check voltage readings at the outdoor unit.
 
  #159  
Old 04-27-14, 11:42 AM
Houston204's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 7,356
Likes Received: 7
2 spots look like trouble to me.
 
Attached Images  
  #160  
Old 04-27-14, 11:54 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 125
I thought that was just darker markings. It looks the same in this 3rd location. Almost like a letter A and a backwards P.

Anyway, I put everything back together.
 
Attached Images  
Reply

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Display Modes