condensor fan runs continuously unless HVAC is turned off

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Old 05-19-14, 08:10 AM
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Post condensor fan runs continuously unless HVAC is turned off

Ok a little background on the unit. It is 34 years old and a Bard wall hung heat pump 24WH2 model. I purchased the house two years ago. I had freon put in a year ago and technician said the compressor looked newer. Well two weeks ago I came home and ac was running but it was hot in the house. The thermostat had the red check light on. My husband opened up the handler and saw the capacitor looked bad. He changed the capacitor with a new one and the red light would still come on. He then cleaned off the old capacitor and for whatever reason the ac worked for another week.
Exact situation happened the next week. A neighbor of ours who is a hvac technician came to the house to look at our ac. He said the condensor fan was not working and needed a new motor. He said the motor was 175 and if he installed it would be 475 total. My husband opted to buy the motor (and motor cap) and install himself. Now the house will cool, the compressor only runs for about 9 minutes and shuts off, but the condensor fan runs continuously unless ac is shut off. When the compressor kicks off the red light comes on, on the indoor thermostat, when compressor kicks back on the red light goes off. The neighbor ac guy came back and said fan is wired correctly and the compressor is going bad.

Will a compressor going bad cause the condensor fan to continuously run, or is it possible it was incorrectly wired? Any help troubleshooting would be greatly appreciated!
 
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Old 05-19-14, 04:20 PM
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First stab in the dark is he got the wiring messed up when he was replacing the capacitor . There is probably 2 capacitors , one for compressor & one for condenser fan .

Or one capacitor that has both functions built in one case / can .

Also , you may or may not have a hard start kit , for the compressor ( containing a capacitor ) and maybe a run capacitor for the compressor ?

See if the wiring diagram for the Bard unit can be found ? With the 240 VAC power off , use the wiring diagram to check all the wiring , looking for mistakes and bad / defective wiring .

God bless
Wyr

PS You probably have another capacitor for the indoor air , since the Bard unit sounds like a package unit .

I often see Bard units on small TeleCom buildings .

God bless
Wyr
 
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Old 05-19-14, 04:54 PM
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Added the hard start capacitor to the run capacitor today. Compressor is running longer now but condenser fan still doesn't shut off. I will see if I can find a wiring diagram. .:
 
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Old 05-19-14, 05:54 PM
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So you are saying that the compressor stops running but the condensor fans is still running.
Is the contactor opening/releasing ?

The contactor looks like it's pretty well...... shot.

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Old 05-20-14, 02:27 AM
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I agree , the contactor has seen better days . :-(

Maybe it is me , but I did not see the capacitors in the photos ?

God bless
Wyr
 
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Old 05-20-14, 03:15 AM
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The run capacitor is not hooked up in the pictures, but is on now. The condensor capacitor is in the lower left side behind some wires in the pictures. I added the hard start kit to the run capacitor last night and the compressor ran for about 15 minutes before shutting down. The condensor fan still running continuously. Compressor seems to be working fine. I am going to order the contactor today and hopefully that will work...Keeping my fingers crossed!
 
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Old 05-20-14, 05:30 PM
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Compressor seems to be working fine.
No.... it's not. It's shutting off by itself.

I'm sure you can use a new contactor but I doubt that it's the problem. If your compressor is shutting off due to thermal overload then it must be smoking hot. It could be due to a condensor fan that is not running up to speed or a start cap that is internally leaking.
 
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Old 05-20-14, 05:49 PM
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The controls look like they have had separate a cover over them. The diagram is commonly found on the panel that covers the control box.

I see a black, a blue and a yellow wire that probably went to a capacitor. Was it a dual capacitor or did 2 wires land on 1 terminal?
How is the new cap wired?

If in doubt...
There is a method using an Ohm meter to determine which compressor terminal is the Start terminal.

 
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Old 05-21-14, 06:10 AM
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I misunderstood . I thought you had already purchased the contactor ? If you have not , were it me , I would buy a 2 pole contactor in which both poles switched . Hopefully it will last longer .

Next , I would buy one size / amperage rating up . ( If the existing one is a 30 amp , I would buy a 30 amp contactor , etc. ) If you have the physical room to mount it . Neither upgrade will cost much more $$$ .

Contractor price for a 2 pole 40 amp DP contactor at Johnstone Supply ( on the internet ) is less than $ 10 . It is made in China .

There is a local store & I would net even have to pay freight .

A simular contactor , shown on their web page , from W W Granger , is less than $ 40 . Also , made in China . Also local , for me & no freight .

Best of luck ,
Wyr
God bless
 
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Old 05-21-14, 10:46 AM
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The capacitor stays connected to the start windings , after the compressor has started & in normal operation ?

I am much more familiar with 3 phase motors . They do not need capacitors , unless they are for power factor correction .

Thanks ,
God bless
Wyr
 
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Old 05-21-14, 10:56 AM
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Sorry for the typo . An example would to upgrade from a 30 amp contactor to a 40 amp contactor . Inductive rating , not resivistive rating .

God bless
Wyr
 
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Old 05-31-14, 04:49 AM
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Well I have an update....the compressor kicked the bucket and I am now in search of a new replacement wich I am running into MAJOR problems.
AC contractor came out and said they would have to cut into the roof to replace with the new one. They said it was 6 inches more in depth than the old one.
After researching the dimensions myself the new unit is a little under 4 inches more in depth that the old one and also has a 4 degree slope. All other measurements will work. The problem lies in that the roof deck is about 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch too low for the units top (not accounting for the 4 degree slope of the unit).
Now here is my idea: Could someone cut the bottom of the existing supply and return wall openings an inch to lower the unit on the wall and not compromise anything? I was thinking we could use a foam sealant or insulation on the top part that would be open. HELP PLEASE
 
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Old 05-31-14, 04:53 AM
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maybe pics will help?

Here are pictures of where the unit was and the roofing deck
 
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Old 06-01-14, 05:20 AM
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I am totally lost ! :-(

We are talking about a package unit ? That was on the roof ? But you have something above it that limits the height ?

Could we please have a pic of that ?

God bless
Wyr
 
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Old 06-01-14, 11:49 AM
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sorry for the confusion

The old unit was a Bard wall hung. The new one would come out a little over 3 inches more than the old one, causing the top of the unit to hit the bottom of the roof deck. So that is why I was asking if we cut an inch out off the bottom of the holes in the wall that would enable the new unit to fit. Hope that is better!
 
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Old 06-01-14, 12:41 PM
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It was a Bard wall hung package unit and not you need to replace it with a larger wall hung package unit. The new unit needs to be dropped down to clear the roof.

The two openings.... supply and return are not in the correct place so you want to cut the bottoms of the openings larger.

Is that correct ?

Are you hanging the unit yourself ? The installer should be able to make that call.
 
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Old 06-01-14, 02:49 PM
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Pjmax yes we are replacing a 2 ton bard wall hung with a new bard 2 ton wall hung. The dimensions from 1981 unit changed. Old unit was 13 1/2 inches outward and new one is 17.125 inches.

We are going to install ourselves. The contractor never came to our house again after bringing a 3 ton that wouldn't fit.
 
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Old 06-01-14, 02:52 PM
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Old 06-01-14, 03:43 PM
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An inch shouldn't make a difference. I think I'd get a piece of 3/4" plywood and apply it to the wall so that the new unit seals correctly and cut the holes where you need them. Keep the hole as large as you can so as not to cut down on airflow.

You could probably pre-measure the new unit and cut the holes in the plywood before mounting it.
 
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Old 06-01-14, 05:19 PM
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I think what you suggested sounds good. For 2700 I can order the heat pump with free shipping. And for 20 get the plywood and have the new ac charged and save a lot of money!!!!! I am fairly sure we can do the wiring with no problems...I say we, but I mean my husband and brother
 
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Old 06-02-14, 01:52 AM
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Sorry I did not understand you . :-(

I am some what familiar with Bard units . They are used a lot in the smaller telephone buildings .

Is yours set up with a supply and return grill on the other side of that wall ? Or , do you have duct work attached to the supply ?

If it is no duct work , I would say go for it . You may need to move the grill a little . Which might involve doing a little carpentry / trim work , om the inside ? But not a huge deal .

Best of luck and be sure to turn the power off when you are doing this . And be sure you have a disconnect on the outside , close to the Bard unit .

God bless
Wyr
 
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