Rheem Problem - What Should I Check For First? - Need Help

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  #41  
Old 10-18-14, 04:57 AM
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Did you replace the wire that had the broken spade terminal? If so, perhaps it's time to take a look at the wires where they connect to the compressor. You'll have to remove the cover that covers the terminals. Look for burned wires or terminals.
 
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  #42  
Old 10-18-14, 10:25 AM
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Bob,

I that one broken spade terminal pretty secure on the black relay terminal so I didn't order the pack of spades or the Klein Crimping tool. I guess I will need to order them now.

I can get a Klein Crimping tool with the red handle model 1005 pictured below on fleabay for about $25, or the Klein Crimping tool model J1005 with the red and black handle for $35. I would rather pay the $25 than the $35 as I think the only difference in them is the newer model J1005 basically has a better rubber handle.

What do you guys think?

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Last edited by Satman858; 10-18-14 at 11:52 AM.
  #43  
Old 10-18-14, 12:00 PM
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I went on and ordered the Klein J1005 crimping tool and the Supco T1111C High Temperature Quick-Disconnect Female tab-type electrical connectors pictured below. Also pictured is the black box opened on my compressor.

Attachment 40272

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  #44  
Old 10-18-14, 02:27 PM
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The connections look normal. Your next step would be to OMH out the compressor.
 
  #45  
Old 10-18-14, 09:31 PM
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I could try to do the OMH out of the compressor, but all I have is this cheap Harbor Freight multimeter I got for free one day when I made a purchase there.

The picture of it is posted below, if anyone can tell me where I set it at?

I watched a video on Youtube named "HVAC Ohming Compressor Windings" that showed me how to test it for Electrical failure, but I do not know where exactly on this multimeter which inputs the red black and plugins need to go, and where the setting needs to be, as I have never used a multimeter.

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  #46  
Old 10-19-14, 04:51 AM
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That multimeter should work fine. I have one just like it. Plug the two leads into the COM and V ohms mA (bottom two) jacks. Remove the wires from the compressor (make a note of where they go). Turn the meter on and set the meter control knob to the 200 ohms scale (just above the on/off switch). Connect the leads across 2 terminals at a time on the compressor. As I recall, there are two windings in series. There are 3 possible combinations of 2 terminals. One reading should be the sum of the other two. I suspect that the two smaller values should be in the 2-5 ohm range. However, Houston or skaggsje may have more accurate values.

It goes without saying that the power should be turned off before doing any of this.
 
  #47  
Old 10-19-14, 07:57 AM
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There is one issue you did not address, but I believe the black multimeter wire plugs into the COM jack on the multimeter, and the red multimeter wire plugs into the V ohms mA Jack.

Is this correct?


Also, when I turn on my multimeter I am getting a reading of the number 1 along with what looks like a small picture of a battery with a + and - sign inside the battery.

Take a look at the photo below:

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Last edited by Satman858; 10-19-14 at 08:43 AM.
  #48  
Old 10-19-14, 08:02 AM
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Yes, that is correct. However, when measuring resistance (ohms) or AC voltage, the polarity doesn't matter. Only when measuring DC voltage does the polarity matter.
 
  #49  
Old 10-19-14, 09:09 AM
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Why is there a 1 reading on my multimeter before I even touch anything?

With that 1 reading before touching anything, will it matter when adding up the readings from the com-run and com-start, to total the run-start reading?
 
  #50  
Old 10-19-14, 09:18 AM
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With a digital multimeter, it's normal for the display to show 1 and the other digits flashing ----. This is because the highest value digit on the display is always 1. If you're on the 200 ohm scale, the maximum reading it can display is 199.9. The 2000 ohm scale can indicate up to 1999, etc. If you short the two leads together, the meter should show 0 ohms, or something very close to zero.
 
  #51  
Old 10-19-14, 09:31 AM
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I have it set on 200 as shown in the picture, because that is where you said to set it in your post #47.

Would that setting in the picture be good to go?
 
  #52  
Old 10-19-14, 09:34 AM
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Yes, the 200 ohm scale should be good. I would expect the measured values to be less than 10 ohms, probably much less.
 
  #53  
Old 10-19-14, 09:41 AM
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I will be testing the compressor after the Saints game, as finding out our compressor is shot would certainly not allow the game to be enjoyed. However, I have a feeling the outcome of the game against the Detroit lions on the road, will not be enjoyable at the end of the game either.
 
  #54  
Old 10-19-14, 02:56 PM
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Okay guys, here is what is happened in my test.

(C)Com-(S)Start-Nothing happens at all (no reading) as it stays on the 1 the multimeter gives you

(C)Com - (R)Run -The number 1 moves around and settles in at 1.5

(R)Run -(S)Start -Nothing happens at all (no reading) as it stays on the 1 the multimeter gives you


So with that said, the only reading I am getting is with Com to Run which is 1.5

P.S. I used the black wire coming from the multimeter com plug placed on the com screw for both the run and start test.
 
  #55  
Old 10-19-14, 03:44 PM
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I'm not an expert on this (just a homeowner), but it appears to me that the start winding is open. Hopefully, one of the pros will comment on your readings.
 
  #56  
Old 10-19-14, 03:55 PM
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Thanks Bob for your time.

Hopefully and expert. moderator and/or a HVAC profession in the forum can help me futher.
 
  #57  
Old 10-19-14, 04:14 PM
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To get accurate readings the wires need to be removed from the compressor. When you performed the testing did you remove the three wires and screws?
 
  #58  
Old 10-19-14, 04:57 PM
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Yes I removed the wires but not the screws. However, I used the needle point of the multimeter to touch the plates behind the screws. I can remove the screws completely tomorrow, and run the test again, but I do not think removing them completely will matter. What do you think?

Hopefully skaggsje and PJmax can give their opinions too.
 
  #59  
Old 10-19-14, 05:56 PM
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I wouldn't rely on a free voltmeter from Harbor Freight to condemn your compressor as those meters can be pretty inaccurate. I checked the manual for your meter located at: http://manuals.harborfreight.com/man...8999/98025.pdf

I have attached an excerpt from page 6 of the manual that states if you get a reading of 1 with the tips of the leads attached you need to set the meter to the next higher scale.
 
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Last edited by firedawgsatx; 10-19-14 at 06:11 PM.
  #60  
Old 10-19-14, 06:46 PM
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The meter reads 1 when I turn it on without the leads touching, and when they are touching it read 1,0/1.1 /1.2 depending on how much pressure you use. Hard pressure and it goes down to 1.0
 
  #61  
Old 10-20-14, 06:39 AM
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Like firedawg said move the selector switch to 2000K and test the leads together.
 
  #62  
Old 10-20-14, 09:05 AM
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Attachment 40382*First remember with the multimeter prongs not touching each no matter what Ohm setting is selected 200, 2000, 20k, 200k and 2000k when the multimeter is turned on it always displays a 1


When I move the selector switch (in the photo below) one notch up from the 200 to 2000 setting and touch the multimeter prongs together it moves from 1 to 001

When I move the selector switch (in the photo below) to the top of the setting of the Ohm category 2000k and touch the multimeter prongs together it moves from 1 to 000

After changing the multimeter selector to the 2000k setting, the same compressor test results occurred as in my post #54 with no change except now the (C)Com - (R)Run - number 1 moves to settle in at 2 rather then the 1.5 I was getting having the selector set on 200

With the fact that these same type results occurred, should I maybe go buy me a better multimeter that actually cost money, then depend of the Harbor Freight free item that people get with a purchase?

If so, any recommendations in the $20-$30 range?

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  #63  
Old 10-20-14, 09:33 AM
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In my opinion, you have proved that one of the two windings (start) is open. If we were arguing about whether the winding resistance was 2.5 ohms versus 2.9 ohms, then I would say that the meter accuracy would be a factor. However, since the meter is reading an open circuit from Start to Com, regardless of the ohms scale, I would say that's a pretty good indication that the winding is open. All we need is for skaggsje or firedawgsatx to confirm that there should be some resistance reading (few ohms) between the Start and Com terminals.
 
  #64  
Old 10-20-14, 10:40 AM
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I would replace the battery first. If the meter was working properly , when you touch the leads together, you should always read 0 ohm's.
 
  #65  
Old 10-20-14, 11:16 AM
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skaggsje,

I did replace the 9 volt battery. After replacing the battery it still says 1 on all the Ohm selected settings with the black and red wire leads apart from each other. With them touching each other I get these results below:

When I move the selector switch one notch up from the 200 to 2000 setting and touch the multimeter prongs together it moves from 1 to 001

When I move the selector and switch to the Ohm category of 2000k, 200k and 20k and touch the multimeter prongs together it moves from 1 to 000
 
  #66  
Old 10-20-14, 11:43 AM
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(R)Run -(S)Start -Nothing happens at all (no reading) as it stays on the 1 the multimeter gives you
If you feel your meter is working properly:

Based on your testing, with a reading of 1 (infinity) between C-S and C-R terminals it appears the windings are open. On a single-phase compressor, if the open is read between start and run, the compressor is bad and needs to be replaced.
 

Last edited by firedawgsatx; 10-20-14 at 12:42 PM.
  #67  
Old 10-20-14, 12:46 PM
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I think the meter is OK, I agree with firedawg.
 
  #68  
Old 10-20-14, 01:04 PM
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The thing is I don't have confidence that it reads properly. I say this because every selected setting in the Ohm category on the multimeter displays a 1 when the black and red wire prongs are not touching each other. Why does a 1 display at all when the wires are not touching?

By the way firedawgsatx, when I touch the compressor C-R it scans then I am getting it a reading of 1.5 when selection setting is on 200, but when selection setting is on 2000 or 2000k it scans and shows up at 0.00

Why would I get 1.5 on 200 and 0.00 on the other Ohm multimeter selection setting?
This along with the 1 displaying on every selected Ohm setting with the wire prongs not touching, is what makes me question the accuracy of this multimeter.

According to the Harbor Freight resistance measurement excerpt you attached in your post #59 number 8 says if you are getting "1" to set the range selection switch to the next highest Ohm setting position. Well on my multimeter not only is the highest Ohm switch setting position of 2000k still displaying a "1" (as seen in the photo below) all of the Ohm selection switch setting gives you a "1".

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  #69  
Old 10-20-14, 01:28 PM
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Why does a 1 display at all when the wires are not touching?
On your meter a display of 1 is the same as OL (open loop) on other meters. This simply means there is no continuity. When you touch the two probes togeter it should display 0 (shows continuity)

when I touch the compressor C-R it scans then I am getting it a reading of 1.5 when selection setting is on 200, but when selection setting is on 2000 or 2000k it scans and shows up at 0.00.Why would I get 1.5 on 200 and 0.00 on the other Ohm multimeter selection setting?
It is indicating there is continuity between the C-R winding. There should be continuity between all of the terminals.

According to the Harbor Freight resistance measurement excerpt you attached in your post #59 number 8 says if you are getting "1" to set the range selection switch to the next highest Ohm setting position. Well on my multimeter not only is the highest Ohm switch setting position of 2000k still displaying a "1" (as seen in the photo below) all of the Ohm selection switch setting gives you a "1".
This means that when you are touching the two test points with the probes and it reads 1 you set it at the next higher setting to hopefully get a stable reading.
 
  #70  
Old 10-20-14, 02:07 PM
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firedawgsatx,
It is indicating there is continuity between the C-R winding. There should be continuity between all of the terminals.
It may not be getting continuity between the C-R, as it may just be giving me that same 1.5 reading (like when the prongs are not touching) because the selected Ohm setting was to low at 200. I say this because at 2000k even the C-R winding is at 0.00 like the C-S and R-S readings.


firedawgsatx,
This means that when you are touching the two test points with the probes and it reads 1 you set it at the next higher setting to hopefully get a stable reading.
So you are saying that it is reading 1.5 on the 200 setting because the setting is to low, and that is why I am getting 1.5 with the C-R winding. That makes sense, except why would that same thing not happen when testing the C-S and S-R winding at the 200 selection switch setting?
 
  #71  
Old 10-20-14, 02:40 PM
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I am getting 1.5 with the C-R winding. That makes sense, except why would that same thing not happen when testing the C-S and S-R winding at the 200 selection switch setting?
Because if the meter is working properly, it is indicating "open" between C-S and S-R. As stated before, there should be continuity between C-S, C-R and S-R.

It may not be getting continuity between the C-R, as it may just be giving me that same 1.5 reading (like when the prongs are not touching) because the selected Ohm setting was to low at 200. I say this because at 2000k even the C-R winding is at 0.00 like the C-S and R-S readings.
I have no idea why this is happening. Perhaps Bob14525 can elaborate since he owns the same meter.
 
  #72  
Old 10-20-14, 04:26 PM
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Harbor Freight Multimeter

The Harbor Freight multimeter (freebie) has what is termed a 3 1/2 digit display. In other words, it has 3 digits (0-9 for each digit), and a "half-digit" that is either a 1 or blank.

By the way firedawgsatx, when I touch the compressor C-R it scans then I am getting it a reading of 1.5 when selection setting is on 200, but when selection setting is on 2000 or 2000k it scans and shows up at 0.00

Why would I get 1.5 on 200 and 0.00 on the other Ohm multimeter selection setting?
Actually, I'm a little surprised that the meter is reading 000 on the 2000 ohms scale. It should read either 001 or 002, depending upon whether it's rounding up or down.

This along with the 1 displaying on every selected Ohm setting with the wire prongs not touching, is what makes me question the accuracy of this multimeter.
This meter shows the 1 when the probes are not connected (open circuit). It's this meters way of showing an open circuit, or resistance that is above the maximum for the selected scale.

Let's say that the actual winding resistance is 1.5 ohms. On the 200 ohm scale, the meter can read up to a maximum of 199.9 (1 plus 3 digits). On the 2000 scale, it can read up to a maximum of 1999 (1 plus 3 digits). Note that there is no decimal available (have run out of digits). The same is true on the 200K scale as well.

Hopefully, this gives you a little insight into how the meter functions. However, I still maintain that it doesn't matter whether the meter is reading 1.5 or 0 ohms. If I understand you correctly, when you check the Start to Com terminals, the meter just shows 1 (open circuit) and is quite different from what you read when you measure between the Run and Com terminals.
 
  #73  
Old 10-21-14, 08:21 AM
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It seems to appear to all of you that my multimeter is in working order, and it has been confirmed that my compressor is bad, so I will be creating a new thread shortly to ask question about a compressor replace there.

Before leaving this thread, is there a way that I can check to see if my new Run Capacitor, Start Capacitor and two month old Contactor are all in working order with them installed on the outside unit, by putting my outside fuse box back in with the wires to the compressor either reattached or left unplugged?

If so, what should my multimeter be set on to test those 3 parts?
 
  #74  
Old 10-21-14, 10:06 AM
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You won't be able to test the caps with your meter. You'll need a meter that reads microfared.
 
  #75  
Old 10-21-14, 11:12 AM
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Skaggsje,

Would this multimeter read microfarad?

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Last edited by Satman858; 10-21-14 at 01:18 PM.
  #76  
Old 10-21-14, 02:25 PM
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I think this meter will work for reading microfarad.

Would this be correct?

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  #77  
Old 10-21-14, 02:41 PM
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Yes the yellow meter would work. Can't tell on the other one.
 
  #78  
Old 10-26-14, 05:51 AM
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I have always used a " regular " analog ohm meter with the needle that swings back and forth ( less confuseing ) . I would test from each of the 3 compressor terminals to a bare metal spot on the compressor . This will tell you if anything is shorted to ground .

Id you are still reading open circuit on one winding , I would take a fair sized wooden mallet and give the steel body of the compressor a good whack . In case the thermal overload is stuck " open " .

This may not help , but if you have condemned the compressor anyway , can not hurt .

Make sure all your crimp connections are good and the screw terminal connections are tight . Then try starting the unit , again . If need be , give the compressor another whack or two with the mallet .

God bless
Wyr
 
  #79  
Old 10-26-14, 10:42 AM
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Wyr,

This video is the test that I did whereby I got no reading showing up on my multimeter, leading me to believe that I have open windings on my compressor. I will try the shorted to ground test. I also could try putting a 2x4 up against my compressor and give it a good whack with my steel mall, then out the screws back securely tight and try starting the unit again.
 
  #80  
Old 10-26-14, 11:17 AM
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I'm in so many forums it's hard to follow long threads like this.

No need to keep beating the dead horse. You have an open start winding.
It's time to move on. Basically this thread is just about done.
 
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