Trane 3 wire OEM motor replacement with 4 wire plus defrost control board

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Old 06-04-15, 09:41 PM
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Trane 3 wire OEM motor replacement with 4 wire plus defrost control board

First of all, thanks in advance. This forum seems to have some of the best advice, and Iíve largely followed (and/or tried to follow) a lot of it, but I can tell somethingís not quite right:

The unit is a Trane XE1000 heat pump, circa 1993. Yes, 22 years old, although the compressor is a replacement (used unit), and Iím not sure if the fan was the original or not. I replaced the fan because of a loud squealing from the bearing, everything was working fine, but the squeal made it clear the motor needed to go. Florida, by the way, where maybe 10 days a year are cold enough to trigger occasional emergency heat mode on the heat pump.

Old condenser motor: 3 wire GE, brown, purple, and black. Brown and purple to the capacitor, black to the contactor, or should I say, to a little box thingie on the circuit board, which I believe based on my Binging, is the defrost control board.

New motor, a universal, with 4 wires: Brown, Brown/White, Black, and Yellow, and the instructions say Brown & Brown-White to the capacitor and Black and Yellow to Line. (The motor is a Century F48ad70a01). I didnít replace the capacitor at the time, because I saw a shiny new split capacitor that I knew was newish, but I realized later that itís not being used for the motor, so Iíll get a new capacitor tomorrow.

Current setup: brown & brown-white to the capacitor, and black to the defrost control board with yellow taped off. On further introspection, perhaps the new fan is maybe one inch lower than the original, Iíll fix that tomorrow also. Itís definitely not more than an inch off though.

Iíve read some conflicting advice, depending on the source: Approximately half (actually, a third) of the posts out there say just tape up the yellow and donít use it. Others say Black to T1 and Yellow to T2. More on this in a moment, but I do at least have some success taking this approach, but the condenser fan doesnít seem to blow as hard as the old (I suppose itís possibly my imagination, based on the new fan being so much quieter), it feels hot to the touch (just touching the top of the condenser), and a slowish constant red blinking occurs on the board. Nonetheless, it cools the inside of the house, perhaps not with the vigor it should though.

As to why I went with the 3 wire approach: I made fireworks! Originally, I thought I knew what I was doing, and I put the black wire to the contactor, and I thought (I guess I was wrong, huh?) the yellow to what I thought was the equivalent of T2, by tracing what I thought was the correct wire back to the contactor.

However, I set the thermostat to cool, then turned on the first breaker, to a massive spark from the capacitor. I turned it off within a half second, and with my tail between my legs, re-read several more articles, and tried the black wire plugged in/yellow wire taped off, with what I suppose is some success, but I know that doesnít seem right. (it looks to me like the contactor is upside down, with hot wires coming in from the top, that may have been my downfall, but Iím scared to try again. At the moment BEFORE making fireworks, I was almost thinking I had done it right).

SoÖ It cools, but the fan seems slow (itís definitely the right fan, 1075RPM/220V/etc), the top of the condenser (above where the motor is) seems too warm to the touch, and something just bothers me about the taped off wire. Tomorrow, definitely getting a new capacitor, adjusting the fan, but still seems like something isn't right.

Thanks in advance for any help!
 
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Old 06-04-15, 10:30 PM
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Adding a couple photos

Both taken at night, unfortunately, but perhaps this will help. The yellow connector is the black wire, and that's where the original motor's cable was plugged also.

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Old 06-05-15, 09:16 AM
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Harumph....

OK, replaced the start capacitor, it was definitely at the very least very old. The connector is so old I can't even get a good contact with my multimeter to test it.

I had also avoided using it much while I was concerned about the heat of the motor, but I ran it for a while today, including for a while without watching it.

Unfortunately, after running for a while this morning, I went out and the fan was humming, but not running. I haven't started testing everything yet, but now the fan isn't running. I'm open to suggestions. Thanks.

EDIT: 5 minutes later. OK, now I sound like a crazy man, but I believe it all comes down to something isn't wired right. I jiggled all the connections, turned the breaker back on, and now the fan is running. I'm still going to tread lightly and dodge using the AC much in the hopes of hearing some thoughts from someone who actually knows what they are doing... :-)
 
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Old 06-05-15, 09:41 AM
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Take a look at this and let us know if this how it's wired. Your yellow wire should go back to T2.
 
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Last edited by skaggsje; 06-05-15 at 09:44 AM. Reason: added info
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Old 06-05-15, 10:35 AM
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Yes, it was wired in 3 wire mode... This looks like my T2?

Thanks for the reply.

So I would connect my yellow where the blue wire is currently connected to the contactor (my green arrow on the left), and also disconnect the existing blue/white wire from both places, no longer use it, correct?

(I confirmed via multitester, the blue/little bit of white wire connects the contactor to the capacitor, before I've done anything.)

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EDIT/P.S. - There's a yellow wire in the picture, that's got nothing to do with my new motor, just some other yellow wire that's been there all along. At the moment, until I change it, I'm still for now wired with just 3 wires and my yellow tied off. Thx.
 

Last edited by JohnQFlorida; 06-05-15 at 11:13 AM.
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Old 06-05-15, 01:27 PM
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And also...

Finally, the majority of posts all over, say connect the wires to T1 and T2, whereas in my case, what was T1 was on the defrost control board. I assume stick with that, and yellow over to T2? (And to confirm, I detach what currently connects T2 to the Start Capacitor?)

Thanks!
 
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Old 06-05-15, 02:08 PM
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To make things a little easier can you post the model # on the heat pump?
 
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Old 06-05-15, 02:14 PM
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Sure, it's a Trane XE1000
 
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Old 06-05-15, 02:21 PM
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No, that's the series #. Model # will be on a sticker out side. Could be on the outside or on the inside of the cover.
 
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Old 06-05-15, 02:25 PM
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Aah, gotcha: TWR030C0100A0
 
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Old 06-05-15, 02:27 PM
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OK, let me see what I can find.
 
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Old 06-05-15, 02:46 PM
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Thanks.... I'm very curious if my theory is correct. I suppose it's a little more than a guess, but not THAT much more... ;-)
 
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Old 06-05-15, 02:56 PM
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I have worked on that heat pump before, found the wiring diagram in my "archives".

Blue/white wire will stay in place. That goes from the fan relay on the defrost module to T2.

Brown and brown white go to the new cap.

Black wire from new motor goes to the common on the fan relay.

The Yellow wire from new motor goes to T1.
 
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Old 06-05-15, 03:11 PM
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ok, so if you put that into expert/dumass dumass/expert translator... ;-)

That means that black stays where it was before with the OEM motor, and yellow to the T1.

Let me also make sure I'm describing things accurately. The blue/white wire is my own description (the wire from left arrow to right arrow in my earlier picture), it's not blue white stripe, it's mostly blue with some white lines, (not continuous), and it definitely was going from what in my mind is T2 to the run capacitor, doesn't touch the relay or the defrost module, in my mind serving as the red wire in the 3 wire schematic you posted.

EDIT: New pic below, original place black wire on old motor was.
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Old 06-05-15, 03:37 PM
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Yes the wiring diagram shows that to be BLK/BLU? Can you trace that BLU/WHT from the contactor to the defrost module?
 
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Old 06-05-15, 03:43 PM
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Hmmm... what point on the defrost module? The original spot where the original black wire plugged in? No, not tracable from contactor to defrost.

Also, if I totally detach both ends of the blue&white wire I'm talking about and use my continuity tester, it's definitely one wire from T2 to the start capacitor. (Same two points in my earlier image with the two arrows, one arrow to the other, that wire is continuous).

Also, from the hot end/bottom of the contactor (mine, the hot wires are on bottom), that shows continuous over to the lead on the
 
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Old 06-05-15, 03:53 PM
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New info, sorry if I should have known this: If I press down on the switch of the contactor, then yes, there is continuity from the contactor to the relay. Not pressed, no continuity. (There is continuity from the hot load at the bottom of the contactor when not pressed).
 
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Old 06-05-15, 03:55 PM
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In the pic with the green arrow it looks like the BLU/WHT is on the cap? In your later pic it looks like no wires on the cap?
 
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Old 06-05-15, 03:58 PM
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Correct, but that was just temporary: When I thought the blue/wht wire shouldln't have been there, I had taken it off. (I haven't actually connected anything with my various theories though, been reading around, haven't done anything yet. Per your more recent posts, blue/wht is now back where it was).
 
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Old 06-05-15, 04:08 PM
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OK I get it. Is the dual cap (original cap) still in place?
 
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Old 06-05-15, 04:16 PM
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Yes, the 40/5 is in place, nothing attached to the FAN lead. (Photo coming momentarily via an upcoming edit). When I first started shopping, seeing that capacitor was why I didn't initially get a new start capacitor.

EDIT: the split capacitor.
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Old 06-05-15, 04:21 PM
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That's good. I think you are ready to go.
 

Last edited by skaggsje; 06-05-15 at 04:23 PM. Reason: correction
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Old 06-05-15, 04:30 PM
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OK, I'm ready too. Now don't laugh too much at this, but since you're online anyway: T1 is (in my specific picture) top left, yellow wire there; black to the spot on the relay with my blue arrow, and brown and brown white to the cap, where the infamous blu/wht cable goes from T2 to that cap also. Right?

EDIT: contactor, a brighter pic. (until a follow-up edit, this is an old picture from when blu/wht was NOT connected)
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Old 06-05-15, 04:43 PM
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You should only have two wires on the cap. Brown and brown white. I don't see a yellow wire on T2. I only see the yellow low voltage wire to the coil.
 
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Old 06-05-15, 04:47 PM
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Sorry, I meant to say it this way:
- The new motor's yellow wire will go to T1.
- The new motors brown and brown/white both go to the start cap, one to each connector.
- Start cap is also connected via that blu/wht wire, back to T2.
- And black wire from new motor to the same place the black wire of the old motor went, to the relay.

Right? whew.
 
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Old 06-05-15, 04:55 PM
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Everything is ok except the blue/white. That wire goes to the fan relay.
 
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Old 06-05-15, 05:08 PM
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Ok, this mean's I'm not understanding something, I'm glad I asked.

What you say is the fan relay, is what I was thinking was where the old black wire plugged into, but clearly I am misunderstanding something. Which one is the fan relay? Before I changed anything, the blu/wht wire went from what I am thinking is T2 over to the lead on the start capacitor. There is a previously undiscussed red wire, that goes from the bottom (I guess L1) left of the contactor, to the horizontal lead on what I think is the relay. Or thought. lol. Sighhhh... What brand beer do you like best? ;-)
 
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Old 06-05-15, 07:11 PM
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Hey John, a good 12 year old scotch would be good! On a heat pump the the fan has to go through the relay so the fan stops when it goes into defrost mode. The small black box on the defrost module is the fan relay.
 

Last edited by skaggsje; 06-05-15 at 07:17 PM. Reason: added information
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Old 06-05-15, 07:29 PM
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Ok, I'm still confused by one thing, but I think I see where I explained something poorly:

Back at 1:35 p.m., I said "So I would connect my yellow where the blue wire is currently connected to the contactor (my green arrow on the left), and also disconnect the existing blue/white wire from both places, no longer use it, correct? ", but should have said "So I would connect my yellow where the blue/white wire is currently connected to the T2 contactor (my green arrow on the left), and also disconnect the existing blue/white wire from both places, no longer use it, correct? "

In other words, what I still am wondering: Assuming that we go back to the 3 wire vs. 4 wire schematic you posted earlier, the line that is RED in the 3 wire drawing, is what that blue/wht wire was doing, before I touched anything, it went from T2 to the start capacitor, where now my brown and brown/white wires are hooked up to. Doesn't that wire go away, when switching to 4 wire mode? (keep in mind, that wire never went to the relay). (I'm focusing on your 7:35 p.m. post, where you said the blue/wht goes to the fan relay: Keeping in mind we're talking about the wires on my unit, regardless of the schematic, my blue/wht wire never went there. hence my confusion).
 
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Old 06-05-15, 08:07 PM
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And also, a question for later, MUCH later, but we can postpone this until everything else is working: What's the deal with the differing advice, where some places/people say "just tie up the yellow (sometimes white) wire, and others say to put it to T2? I'm tending to believe the "four wirers", because if the motor only needed 3 wires, they would have made it with 3 wires? What's the electrical explanation? (Let's defer this until later?)
 
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Old 06-06-15, 06:56 AM
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Also, for the benefit of other non-experts: (embarrassed look): The snugness/quality of a contact in a connection really matter, and it's not a "pfft, that never happens" situation. Bad connections happen all the time, and that was part of my issue.

I temporarily reactivated things the same way I did originally (with the "black wire only, yellow wire taped off" approach), except taking a little more time to make sure every connection was completely snug and good and tight (also, a new capacitor), and now everything works as expected: fan spins at correct speed and doesn't overheat. So a "not quite snug enough" connector was a big part of my problem.

I'm still asking about the 4 wire vs. 3 wire setup though. What's the deal with some people saying "tape it off", other's saying "connect it"?
 
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Old 06-06-15, 10:45 AM
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I usually connect the 4th wire if space allows it.
 
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Old 06-06-15, 11:07 AM
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EDIT: Revised post
Ok, last night, and until this morning, I had made sure all connections looked and felt good, and it ran like its old self.

I momentarily thought I had a problem, after following these instructions (it was filthy) - http://www.doityourself.com/stry/how...at-pump-coil#b, but I guess I just hadn't let it dry long enough.

Now it's back online, BUT back to running at half strength. So, I suppose that's one of the reasons to use all 4 wires, huh? However, I'm still shaky on some of the very patient advice from skaggsje.

If I leave black plugged into the relay, then I would plug yellow into T1, right?
But since there is currently a cable (blue/wht) from T1 over to the capacitor, does that stay or go? To my amateurish reading of the schematics, that T1 to capacitor cable should go away in a 4 wire setting, but that's why I'm the amateur. However, I would like to feel like I at least understand some of it?


Old post, before edits: (ignore this old post)l...
Thanks... What are the implications? Because I got it working nicely with the yellow tied/taped off.

New problem, but I think it's different enough that I should start a new thread. (In fact, I definitely will... Get your popcorn!) :-)
 

Last edited by JohnQFlorida; 06-06-15 at 11:42 AM.
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Old 06-06-15, 12:20 PM
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And, new information: I am back in business, full strength fan, blowing the right way, clean condensor, everything.

I take it, that in certain specific setups, where T2 is connected to the capacitor, that flip-flopping brown & brown-white has an impact? ecause that's what fixed me up. Any merit to that theory?

(it also seemed to affect direction too, the fan blew the wrong way before flip-flopping)
 
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Old 06-06-15, 12:33 PM
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It will definitely affect operation if you connect the start wire to the same post as the run wire on a cap instead of the correct way.
 
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Old 06-06-15, 01:30 PM
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Good to hear. So many places (they're all talking 4 wire setups when they do) just say "it doesn't matter", that we who don't quite know what we're doing will take that advice and use it incorrectly, such as thinking it didn't matter in the 3 wire setup. So, it matters in 3 wire setups. Got it... :-)

Thanks to Houston204 and SkaggsJE for the patience and the help!
 
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