hvac possibly short cycling
#1
04-07-17, 07:18 AM
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hvac possibly short cycling
Ok. I have a York gas pack unit and here is what is happening.
- The heat works fine. It comes on and turns off based on the temp of the thermostat. The fan also works correctly with the heat.
- The AC is not working correctly. If the unit is off completely and I turn it on, it will come on for about five minutes and then it cuts off. There is still a sound like the compressor is still running. The AC will not come back on though. the fan will not come on either after it cuts off.
- If I turn the unit completely off and then back on it will do the same.
- If I just turn on the fan, it will work fine.
- Also, the return notification is on on the thermostat.
- It sounds like it might be short cycling from what I have read about that. I am not sure though.
Any suggestions?
Thanks,
Wendell
- The heat works fine. It comes on and turns off based on the temp of the thermostat. The fan also works correctly with the heat.
- The AC is not working correctly. If the unit is off completely and I turn it on, it will come on for about five minutes and then it cuts off. There is still a sound like the compressor is still running. The AC will not come back on though. the fan will not come on either after it cuts off.
- If I turn the unit completely off and then back on it will do the same.
- If I just turn on the fan, it will work fine.
- Also, the return notification is on on the thermostat.
- It sounds like it might be short cycling from what I have read about that. I am not sure though.
Any suggestions?
Thanks,
Wendell
#2
04-07-17, 08:39 AM
Hey Wendell, I would not call that short cycling. If you hear the compressor still running but the fan on top stops, then the fan has a problem. Do you see any frost on the copper lines ?
#3
04-09-17, 05:29 AM
Member
If you turn the fan on it works fine, do you mean the cooling only works when the fan is set to manual?
Geo
Geo
#4
04-09-17, 12:01 PM
Group Moderator
A York gas pack is going to be a packaged unit so there won't be any visible copper lines.
It sounds like there is a problem with the blower.
On a packaged unit.....
the fan is on the top of the unit and is used to cool the compressor.
The blower is inside and is used to circulate the air thru the house.
It sounds like there is a problem with the blower.
On a packaged unit.....
the fan is on the top of the unit and is used to cool the compressor.
The blower is inside and is used to circulate the air thru the house.
#5
04-15-17, 06:40 PM
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Hi guys,
Thanks for the replies. If I start with everything on the unit completely off...
1. If I turn the fan to the "on" position, it will run just fine by itself.
2. If I leave the fan in the "on" position, then turn the a/c to "on" position, the a/c will run for about 5 minutes and then both the fan and the a/c will cut off. I can still hear some humming noise from the a/c unit. The fan does not come back on.
3. If everything is off and I turn the a/c to the on position first (the fan is in auto position), the unit will make a humming noise and if the thermostat causes the unit to come on, it will stay on for about five minutes and then cut off. The fan will not come back on and the unit will continue to make a small humming sound.
Could it be the thermostat?
Thanks for the replies. If I start with everything on the unit completely off...
1. If I turn the fan to the "on" position, it will run just fine by itself.
2. If I leave the fan in the "on" position, then turn the a/c to "on" position, the a/c will run for about 5 minutes and then both the fan and the a/c will cut off. I can still hear some humming noise from the a/c unit. The fan does not come back on.
3. If everything is off and I turn the a/c to the on position first (the fan is in auto position), the unit will make a humming noise and if the thermostat causes the unit to come on, it will stay on for about five minutes and then cut off. The fan will not come back on and the unit will continue to make a small humming sound.
Could it be the thermostat?
#6
04-15-17, 07:30 PM
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Now that I think of it, I had a problem last fall with a bad fuse. I thought that it might have been the thermostat so I replaced it. I may have wired it incorrectly. Here is a pic. I do not have a yellow wire..so I placed the blue into the yellow slot.
#7
04-16-17, 09:27 AM
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Ok. I am still fighting with this unit. I had my son manage the thermostat while I went outside to the unit. I have the covers off the unit so that I can watch closely.
If the fan (blower) is set to the on position it works until the a/c is triggured. If the a/c is turned on and then kicks in, there is a click in the unit immediately and the blower cuts off. I thought that the blower was staying on for a few minutes but it stops immediately. The a/c fan and compressor keep going.
I also verified the above by using the wires directly from the thermostat. I connected the green to the red and the blower comes on. It runs just fine until I add the blue (yellow) condensor wire to it. Then there is a tiny spark and the blower cuts off. The red and blue(yellow) still keep going.
If I connect the red wire to the condensor wire first, then add the green blower wire, the blower does not come on at all.
It looks like the wiring is correct. There is a yellow wire from the unit. It is spliced to a blue wire under the house. The red, green, and white are all correctly connected and spliced under the house.
If the fan (blower) is set to the on position it works until the a/c is triggured. If the a/c is turned on and then kicks in, there is a click in the unit immediately and the blower cuts off. I thought that the blower was staying on for a few minutes but it stops immediately. The a/c fan and compressor keep going.
I also verified the above by using the wires directly from the thermostat. I connected the green to the red and the blower comes on. It runs just fine until I add the blue (yellow) condensor wire to it. Then there is a tiny spark and the blower cuts off. The red and blue(yellow) still keep going.
If I connect the red wire to the condensor wire first, then add the green blower wire, the blower does not come on at all.
It looks like the wiring is correct. There is a yellow wire from the unit. It is spliced to a blue wire under the house. The red, green, and white are all correctly connected and spliced under the house.
Last edited by Wendell Tate; 04-16-17 at 10:03 AM. Reason: new info
#8
04-16-17, 11:02 AM
Member
If you have a multimeter, try this. Set your multimeter to AC volts and check voltage from the Red wire to the air handler chassis (you'll probably have to do this near the air handler). You should meaure ~24VAC.
Assuming that you do measure ~24VAC from the Red wire to the chassis, with the multimeter still connected between the red wire and the chassis, connect the Green wire (blower) to the Red. You should still read ~24VAC.
Assuming that you do, now connect the Blue wire (condenser) to the Red & Blue wires. Does the voltage stay at 24VAC, or does it drop down to almost 0VAC?
Assuming that you do measure ~24VAC from the Red wire to the chassis, with the multimeter still connected between the red wire and the chassis, connect the Green wire (blower) to the Red. You should still read ~24VAC.
Assuming that you do, now connect the Blue wire (condenser) to the Red & Blue wires. Does the voltage stay at 24VAC, or does it drop down to almost 0VAC?
#9
04-16-17, 11:31 AM
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Ahhh... I see Bob is helping you out. 
My thoughts are you may have a defective contactor with a burned/shorted coil.
My thoughts are you may have a defective contactor with a burned/shorted coil.
#10
04-16-17, 12:41 PM
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Thanks for the suggestions. I am not sure that I did this in the right place but...I checked the wire voltages near the circuit board. The red by itself was around 26VAC. This actually didn't change at all when I added the green and then the yellow wire to the red. I took the green and the yellow out of their terminals on the boards when I connected them to the red.
#11
04-16-17, 12:52 PM
Member
I was expecting that the 24VAC would drop to near zero when you connected the Blue (condenser) wire to the Red (expecting a shorted contactor coil as Pete suggested, or cable going outside). I assume that when you connected the Red, Green, and Blue wires together (while monitoring the voltage), the blower turned off after the Blue wire was connected? If so, this is very odd, especially since I understood you to say that if you connected just the Red to the Blue wire (no Green), the compressor & condenser fan turned on.
It doesn't make sense that either one (compressor/condenser fan or blower) alone works okay, but neither works if both connected to the power (Red, 24VAC).
It doesn't make sense that either one (compressor/condenser fan or blower) alone works okay, but neither works if both connected to the power (Red, 24VAC).
#12
04-16-17, 02:05 PM
Group Moderator
You have green, yellow, red and white at the unit.
You have green, blue, red and white at the stat.
You have splices somewhere.
Remove the four wires from the unit. Jumper G and Y together.
Now connect a jumper from there to R.
Does the system run normally now ?
You have green, blue, red and white at the stat.
You have splices somewhere.
Remove the four wires from the unit. Jumper G and Y together.
Now connect a jumper from there to R.
Does the system run normally now ?
#13
04-16-17, 02:46 PM
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Hi Bob,
The red wire works with the blower wire (green) but when I add the yellow condenser wire to those the blower stops working. The voltage stays at 26 or so.
Pete,
I disconnected and wired those as you suggested with the yellow and green jumpered. Then those to the red. The blower still does not work.
Very frustrating. Thanks for all of the help.
The red wire works with the blower wire (green) but when I add the yellow condenser wire to those the blower stops working. The voltage stays at 26 or so.
Pete,
I disconnected and wired those as you suggested with the yellow and green jumpered. Then those to the red. The blower still does not work.
Very frustrating. Thanks for all of the help.
#14
04-16-17, 03:08 PM
Group Moderator
Ok.... now you've eliminated the thermostat wiring.
This is starting to look like a possible defective control board.
Can you post the model number for the unit.
This is starting to look like a possible defective control board.
Can you post the model number for the unit.
#16
04-17-17, 07:11 AM
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I realize now that you were looking for the model number of the board itself. It starts 1138-103 1023 F1. I am taking this from a picture though. I am sure about the 1138-103 and the F1 at the end. I think that I am going to have to call someone. It is just too hot in Columbia, SC to be without AC.
#17
04-17-17, 01:33 PM
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I just had an AC guy by to look at the unit. He said that the control board was the issue. He quoted me $575 just for the board plus the installation. Here are a couple of images of the board.
Would this one work? http://www.ebay.com/itm/York-Coleman...-/350447912063
How hard it to install?
Would this one work? http://www.ebay.com/itm/York-Coleman...-/350447912063
How hard it to install?
#18
04-17-17, 05:00 PM
Member
The board you referenced looks virtually the same as your original board. The description says that it's a replacement for your board, so it will probably work (can't guarantee it). Repair Clinic also has the board, although the price is double the eBay price. The URL for that is: https://www.repairclinic.com/PartDet...8d1247159&mr=1
As for replacing the board, it's pretty simple.
1) Turn off the power to the unit and be certain that it's off.
2) Take a picture of the old board with the wires attached. Spread the wires apart so it's obvious in the picture where each wire goes.
3) Start in one corner of the board and remove one wire at a time from the old board, attaching it to the corresponding terminal on the new board. After attaching the wire to the new board, proceed to remove the next wire from the old board and attach it to the new board. If you get confused and are unsure where a wire goes, refer to the picture you took.
4) Once all the wires are attached to the new board, unscrew the old board and screw the new one in.
As for replacing the board, it's pretty simple.
1) Turn off the power to the unit and be certain that it's off.
2) Take a picture of the old board with the wires attached. Spread the wires apart so it's obvious in the picture where each wire goes.
3) Start in one corner of the board and remove one wire at a time from the old board, attaching it to the corresponding terminal on the new board. After attaching the wire to the new board, proceed to remove the next wire from the old board and attach it to the new board. If you get confused and are unsure where a wire goes, refer to the picture you took.
4) Once all the wires are attached to the new board, unscrew the old board and screw the new one in.
#19
04-18-17, 06:09 AM
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Thanks for the help Bob. I ended up ordering this one: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
It looks to be exactly the same. I did read where this same board was used by a few different companies. If I have a problem with it, I can return it through Amazon.
I can't wait to try it out on Thursday.
It looks to be exactly the same. I did read where this same board was used by a few different companies. If I have a problem with it, I can return it through Amazon.
I can't wait to try it out on Thursday.
#20
04-18-17, 08:57 AM
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Great, and even cheaper than the eBay part! Let us know if it solves your problem when the board arrives.
#21
04-21-17, 07:26 AM
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A big thanks to you guys for your help. It was indeed the control board. I received the new one yesterday evening and it took me about 15 minutes to replace it. There were only about 10 connectors on it. I took a few pictures just to be sure, and then one by one replaced them from board to board.
It works perfectly. It was so easy as well. I can't thank you enough. Now I am thinking about replacing some of my ductwork in the crawlspace.
Thanks again!!
It works perfectly. It was so easy as well. I can't thank you enough. Now I am thinking about replacing some of my ductwork in the crawlspace.
Thanks again!!
#22
04-21-17, 07:59 AM
Member
Wendell, that's great news! You did a good job. Thanks for getting back to us with the results.
