Newly installed condensor fan won't run

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  #1  
Old 09-22-17, 05:34 PM
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Newly installed condensor fan won't run

I installed a new condensor fan motor and capacitor and contact switch. Condensor fan won't start.

It's an '04 goodman 5 ton packaged heat pump unit.
The fan is 1/2 horse power 3-3.5 amps 1075 rpms

I installed a separate single capacitor just for the fan because the leads aren't long enough to reach the dual capacitor.

I checked the leads and saw that the black one coming off of the contactor looked like it might be burnt in I a spot so I cut it back and tied it in. Nothing.

I checked the contactor with my voltage meter everything reads fine. The compressor and the blower motor come on fine.

This is stupid on my part but the fan requires a 10mfd capacitor and the capacitor the guy sold me was 15 mfd ( didn't double check before leaving) would that make a difference I've never installed one that didn't match exactly.

Is it the capacitor? If not what could it be? Relay board? Defrost board?

The lines coming from the unit are copper black and purple the lines on the fan are not copper black and white. I've got black to black (coming from contactor) and light purple to white (purple coming from board). Did I wire it wrong?
 
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  #2  
Old 09-22-17, 05:40 PM
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The wires that i stripped back on tbe balck lead are a little dingy

The black lead the I striped back is a little dingy inside.
 
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Old 09-22-17, 05:55 PM
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Welcome to the forums.

The compressor and the blower motor come on fine.
The compressor is outside and the blower is inside. They are controlled separately.

You posted in the A/C section but it sounds like you have a heat pump. Since you are not using the 3 lead capacitor you may have the fan wired wrong.

Unfortunately it would take guess work on our part to help you unless you provide the complete model number of the condensor unit.

Since we can't see what you can..... pictures are a big help.
http://www.doityourself.com/forum/el...-pictures.html
 
  #4  
Old 09-22-17, 06:25 PM
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Pjmax

No it's a packaged unit not a split unit. Packaged unit means that the compressor, condensor fan, a coil, blower fan and heat strips are ALL in the same place. Most units are splits like you're talking about though. The model number is Phkj060-1A.

And no the capacitor is wired right. The reason you have a dual capacitor is to put the compressor on one post (herm) which has the higher uf/mfd and the fan on the other post (fan) and the common lines on (com). The unit originally had a three lead fan that was replaced with a four lead and now I've replaced it with another four lead fan. On a single capacitor it shouldn't be polarized so it doesn't matter which side the brown and brown/white leads are on.
 
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Old 09-22-17, 06:29 PM
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Thanks for the welcome sorry to sound snappy it's just that I can't figure it out. I wonder if it's the defrost board could it be stuck in defrost mode? I know the condensor fan doesn't come on in defrost mode. The compressor gets hot has lava within 60 seconds of it's turned on.
 
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Old 09-22-17, 08:17 PM
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Wow... I missed packaged heat pump.

They use dual caps because it's less wiring and cheaper than using two caps.

Since it's a four wire motor.... two wires are on the cap. The other two wires need 240vac.
So you have the fan connected to one of the load side contactor terminals. The other goes to the defrost board relay. That relay shuts the fan off when not needed in heat mode. We need to make sure that relay is on the opposite side of the contactor.

If that relay is on the T1 side and your fan is on the T1 side it won't work.

You could do a simple test by moving your fan wire to the other side of the contactor. (T1 to T2 or T2 to T1) It can't hurt anything if both wires of the motor are on the same leg of power.
 
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Old 09-23-17, 07:18 AM
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Pictures

The reason I installed a new conatactor and capacitor and fan is because the condensor fan quit working. In pretty sure a wired it back up the same way. The light purple line going to the bottom left board goes straight to the fan and the smaller black line in the top contactor on the left side behind the compressor line goes straight to the fan.
 
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Old 09-23-17, 07:28 AM
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burnt wire?

Here's a picture of the black line that I thought was burnt out. Even when I cut it further back past the point where the coating was mashed it Still looked a little like this
 
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Old 09-23-17, 07:50 AM
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Clean the wire end with a toothbrush size wire brush.

A model number might allow us to bring up the wiring diagram.
Is it a GPH series?
 
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Old 09-23-17, 07:52 AM
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He posted the model as Phkj060-1A.
I couldn't find the wiring diagram for that unit,
 
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Old 09-23-17, 08:05 AM
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There's not a schematic on the panels either
 
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Old 09-23-17, 08:06 AM
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I sometimes Google image myself and the model prefix to get a diagram.



You can click the image to increase the size.

Move fan purple to the C terminal on the dual cap to prove it isn't the defrost board holding you out.

I would print out this image if this was my unit and leave a copy in the unit.
Photobucket is acting like it isn't going to support this type of posting for much longer.
 
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Old 09-23-17, 08:15 AM
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Thanks for the schematic I've been looking for it for a while! I'll try that and see when I get back
 
  #14  
Old 09-23-17, 08:18 AM
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Is moving the purple line to the c terminal on the dual cap alright if I have another single cap for the fan?
 
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Old 09-23-17, 08:20 AM
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It is still okay. You are just picking up T2.

It is the same thing as disconnecting DF1 and DF2 and holding them together but safer for you.
 
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Old 09-23-17, 10:17 AM
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My diagram is actually larger than photobucket displays. They changed the size.
 
  #17  
Old 09-25-17, 07:53 AM
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Wire

Fan still doesn't work. I stripped the wire that I posted the picture of about a foot further back and it's still black. I'm going to try replacing The line. Anybody happen to know what kind of wire I need? The original line is 16 guage awg 60p volt, and the new Fan line is 18 guage awg 600 volt. I've got some 18 guage line but it's litterally half the size of the fan line I'm guessing by insulation thickness. I'd like to replace it from the start with the correct line. I don't know a lot about wire but I do know these are some of the types: tffn, thhn, thwn. What type do I need exactly? I've looked on different websites for it and it's all different.
 
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Old 09-25-17, 08:54 AM
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THHN and THWN are both ok choices.
Many times you'll find the two combined on one wire.

You have a four wire fan motor. The cap is on two of the wires.
Connect the other two wires to 240vac. The fan should run.

You already have one wire on one side of the contactor. Connect the other line to the other side of the contactor as a test. The contactor needs to be pulled in to get the 240v out.
 
  #19  
Old 09-25-17, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by PJmax View Post
THHN and THWN are both ok choices.
Many times you'll find the two combined on one wire.

You have a four wire fan motor. The cap is on two of the wires.
Connect the other two wires to 240vac. The fan should run.

You already have one wire on one side of the contactor. Connect the other line to the other side of the contactor as a test. The contactor needs to be pulled in to get the 240v out.
The line on the fan motor is about 1 foot and it's four feet to the contactor, it's a packaged unit it's about five feet long. The contactor is closing fine I tested it with my voltage meter on both sides. The line from the Gann won't reach the contactor. So I'm guessing 16 or 18 guage 600 volt thhn line will work? Even if it's half the diameter of the fan motor line?
 
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Old 09-25-17, 09:55 AM
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The line from the Gann won't reach the contactor.
Is that supposed to be fan ?

#16 THHN 600v wire is ok. The THHN wire has a high heat thermoplastic insulation.
 
  #21  
Old 09-25-17, 10:11 AM
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Yeah sorry I don't know why my keyboard typed that
 
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Old 09-25-17, 10:16 AM
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In one of the previous pictures you showed what you thought was a burned wire. It's not burned.... it's corroded. Sometimes you can scrape it off with wire cutters. Some wire is very susceptible to water infiltration.
 
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Old 09-25-17, 05:14 PM
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I recommend getting the correct capacitor as well.

What motor did you get? Does it have a model number?

Did you bypass the defrost control?

Can you post a picture from further back so that we can see your newly made wire connections?
 
  #24  
Old 09-27-17, 08:55 AM
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Think i found it.

Alright. I bypassed the terminals on the defrost board and nothing happened. I replaced the lines I was pretty were burnt out still nothing. I bypassed them one more time them the fan came on. I'm guessing it was a combo of burnt lines and bad defrost board is why it didn't come on the first time I did it. Going to order the board today thank you all for your help! And I ordered the correct cap I'll put it on when it comes. I'm just hoping it The compressor will be alright it didn't run a long time without the fan before I noticed so it should be fine.
 
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Old 09-27-17, 09:32 AM
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The compressor is protected from overheating by an internal overload switch.

A short time overheating should not be a problem. It's when the compressor cycles many times that the damage sets in.
 
  #26  
Old 10-02-17, 06:19 AM
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Relay

Anyone happen to know how to check if the relay is good or going bad. I read somewhere that when the compressor makes a lot of sloshing sounds when it shuts off the relays going bad. I know some sloshing sounds are normal I was just wondering if I needed to check it just in case while I have it apart (part is coming today)
 
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Old 10-02-17, 10:01 AM
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What relay are you talking about ?
Compressor sloshing ?
 
  #28  
Old 10-03-17, 12:57 PM
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Fixed some found some.

Well the defrost board was bad. Had a big ole black burnt spot on the back. I replaced it and the fan and everything in the unit has come on. But now my blower motors lagging.... I'll just wait and see what happens with the blower motor. I just want to make sure the compressor is alright. And it's the top board in the picture the rtu relay board.
 
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  #29  
Old 10-03-17, 01:07 PM
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Unhappy

Well it's been on almost an hour my thermostat is set to 76 and it's 77 outside... It hasn't cooled one degree
 
  #30  
Old 10-03-17, 01:12 PM
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I know the top board runs to the blower motor. It can't be the blower motors capacitor it's only a month old.
 
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Old 10-03-17, 01:31 PM
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Checked everything

Alright I checked the transformer and the board. The transformer has 120 and 120 coming to it from the the contactors but the 24 volt side going to the board only has about 12 to 13 volts. On the board com has 120 but NC (? Can't read it good) only has 8 volts and it goes to the blower motor. The blower motor is on But it sounds slower than I remember. And like I said it's been an hour and hasn't cooled one degree.
 
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Old 10-03-17, 01:43 PM
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m1 has 60 volts. When i installed the defrost board the compressor didn't make anymore noises coming in and it doesn't sound like it's making noise while running. When I turned the thermostat up to make the compressor go off it whistled but I didn't hear any Freon sloshing to go back. I took a video of it shutting off trying to find somewhere to post a link to it
 
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Old 10-03-17, 02:03 PM
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Blower motor is inside the air handler.
The fan is inside the condensor.

Can you not tell when the compressor is running ? It should be quite a bit louder than just the fan. Disconnect one of the fan wires and see if the compressor is running.

Check the voltage directly on the two fan wires. One is on that board and the other is on the contactor. You should measure 240VAC.

There isn't normally a 24v transformer in the condensor. The 24v comes from the air handler.
 
  #34  
Old 10-03-17, 02:19 PM
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I'm pretty sure the compressor is on. But I don't know if it's working right. When the unit cuts on I don't hear true Freon going through the lines but the lines do start sweating. When the unit shuts off I hear a loud whistle but I still don't hear any Freon going through the lines.
 
  #35  
Old 10-03-17, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Alex95 View Post
I'm pretty sure the compressor is on. But I don't know if it's working right. When the unit cuts on I don't hear true Freon going through the lines but the lines do start sweating. When the unit shuts off I hear a loud whistle but I still don't hear any Freon going through the lines.
The last time it was on shortly before I replaced the defrost board I heard the freon both times but it also made the loud whistle which I hadn't noticed before.
 
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Old 10-03-17, 02:35 PM
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When the compressor is running..... feel the larger, usually insulated, pipe in the back of the unit. It should be ice cold.
 
  #37  
Old 10-03-17, 02:40 PM
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It's a packaged unit. The pipe is a HUGE peice of duct work air doesn't feel any different than outside temp.
 
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