A/C underground lines gone bad
#1
04-07-19, 08:22 AM
A/C underground lines gone bad
Hi all, I have a HVAC unit in the garden with a buried line into the house. The repairman said the unit is all out of freon and does not have a leak, so he said it can only be because of an underground leak. The warranty people say they wont cover the line repair because underground lines are not up to code. Is that true?? I could not find anything saying underground HVAC lines are not up to code. I'm in TX.
#2
04-07-19, 08:52 AM
Super Moderator
Many areas will not necessarily have a specific code for this but use different recomendations as the code.
Some will use ASHRE others could use manufacturers written recondations as their code.
There are ways to properly bury a refrigeration line but you need to find out which code they are referring to.
Also, is this a new under warranty system or an aftermarket insurance policy?
If you have after warranty insurance I could almost guarantee you might be out of luck.
You will have signed a contract that would be most definately worded in the company's favor.
You would need to find out exactly what your contract says, which code they are referring to and how this code affects your policy or warranty.
Some will use ASHRE others could use manufacturers written recondations as their code.
There are ways to properly bury a refrigeration line but you need to find out which code they are referring to.
Also, is this a new under warranty system or an aftermarket insurance policy?
If you have after warranty insurance I could almost guarantee you might be out of luck.
You will have signed a contract that would be most definately worded in the company's favor.
You would need to find out exactly what your contract says, which code they are referring to and how this code affects your policy or warranty.
#3
04-07-19, 01:14 PM
Thanks GregH, it's an after market warranty with 2-10
this is what it says under covered:
STANDARD INCLUDED, UP TO TWO SYSTEMS: Centrally ducted refrigeration systems, including heat pumps*. Geothermal and water source system*. Evaporative coolers and built-in electric wall units*. Thermostats - Including All Types*. Ductwork, modification of plenum when necessary to effect an eligible repair*. Crane cost*. Upgrades to maintain compatibility and/or compliance with SEER or refrigerant standards*. * Seller must purchase the A/C and Heat Pump option for coverage during the listing period. SUPREME (Standard Plus These Items): Filters. Window units. Refrigerant recovery. Condensing unit pads and package unit pads. Electrical cut-off switches. Corrections to code violations up to $250 per Service Agreement. Permits up to $250 per Service Agreement. Modifications up to $250 per Service Agreement. Haul away/disposal fees. Items under manufacturer's warranty. Improper installation/repair/modification EXCLUDED: Water towers, humidifiers, chillers, pre-coolers, condensate drain lines and mini-split systems. Geothermal underground piping, well pumps (and their components). Roof jacks, filters, all components of zone controlled and energy management systems, UV filters. Free standing units and any type of gas units. Collapsed ductwork.
this is what it says under covered:
STANDARD INCLUDED, UP TO TWO SYSTEMS: Centrally ducted refrigeration systems, including heat pumps*. Geothermal and water source system*. Evaporative coolers and built-in electric wall units*. Thermostats - Including All Types*. Ductwork, modification of plenum when necessary to effect an eligible repair*. Crane cost*. Upgrades to maintain compatibility and/or compliance with SEER or refrigerant standards*. * Seller must purchase the A/C and Heat Pump option for coverage during the listing period. SUPREME (Standard Plus These Items): Filters. Window units. Refrigerant recovery. Condensing unit pads and package unit pads. Electrical cut-off switches. Corrections to code violations up to $250 per Service Agreement. Permits up to $250 per Service Agreement. Modifications up to $250 per Service Agreement. Haul away/disposal fees. Items under manufacturer's warranty. Improper installation/repair/modification EXCLUDED: Water towers, humidifiers, chillers, pre-coolers, condensate drain lines and mini-split systems. Geothermal underground piping, well pumps (and their components). Roof jacks, filters, all components of zone controlled and energy management systems, UV filters. Free standing units and any type of gas units. Collapsed ductwork.
#4
04-07-19, 01:26 PM
Group Moderator
It looks like buried lines may be specifically excluded from the warranty. Otherwise they'll be waving the improperly installed flag.
There is no clear path here. Knowing aftermarket companies like I do.... and probably Greg too.... they will not cover the repair of the underground lines. So..... find out what they will cover if you pay to repair the lines. Will they cover the refrigerant and the recharging ?
If this were me...... I'd be pressure checking the lines confirming an underground leak. I know it's different a tech doing this versus a homeowner.
There is no clear path here. Knowing aftermarket companies like I do.... and probably Greg too.... they will not cover the repair of the underground lines. So..... find out what they will cover if you pay to repair the lines. Will they cover the refrigerant and the recharging ?
If this were me...... I'd be pressure checking the lines confirming an underground leak. I know it's different a tech doing this versus a homeowner.
#6
04-07-19, 02:34 PM
Super Moderator
Ya, it excludes underground geothermal lines.
For one the coverage seems to be limited to $250.00 per service agreement per repair category.
Also, there are an awful number of asterisks in that agreement that each need to be carefully read because they will further limit your claim.
Those policies seem to offer "peace of mind" only, they absolutely don't offer any savings if something goes wrong.
The best thing I could suggest is don't bother calling them anymore and cancel prior to it expiring.
Even if the in-ground leak was covered it would cost at least $250.00 just to determine whether it was leaking there or not.
You really don't have a leg to stand on with the problem you have now.
Have they shown you which code underground lines fall under and if we tell you they are wrong then what???
Cancel and look for a repair company you can work with..
To be honest if the system were installed by someone competant the leak probably is not undergound.
Curious to know what is also covered in your home and what does the policy cost?
For one the coverage seems to be limited to $250.00 per service agreement per repair category.
Also, there are an awful number of asterisks in that agreement that each need to be carefully read because they will further limit your claim.
Those policies seem to offer "peace of mind" only, they absolutely don't offer any savings if something goes wrong.
The best thing I could suggest is don't bother calling them anymore and cancel prior to it expiring.
Even if the in-ground leak was covered it would cost at least $250.00 just to determine whether it was leaking there or not.
You really don't have a leg to stand on with the problem you have now.
Have they shown you which code underground lines fall under and if we tell you they are wrong then what???
Cancel and look for a repair company you can work with..
To be honest if the system were installed by someone competant the leak probably is not undergound.
Curious to know what is also covered in your home and what does the policy cost?
#7
04-07-19, 05:32 PM
Thanks Greg. The line is not geothermal if it comes from HVAC.
I will call them tomorrow
The coverage (which was not paid by me) cost $500 and covers major appliances and hvac/heating
I will call them tomorrow
The coverage (which was not paid by me) cost $500 and covers major appliances and hvac/heating
#8
04-07-19, 06:18 PM
Group Moderator
We realize the line is not part of geothermal but it's the underground work the warranty is referring to. Ultimately they may cover the line replacement but not the actual underground work. We've worked with these warranty companies before. Anything out of mainstream "normal" is grounds for refusal of payment.
Let us know what they say.
Let us know what they say.
#9
04-12-19, 09:09 AM
so ... another hvac specialist came (on my dime) and found a leaky external coil!
apparently the unit will be obsolete in a year so it's best to replace it but it costs around $4000! I'm surprised, but are those normal prices?
Thanks everyone for your help!
apparently the unit will be obsolete in a year so it's best to replace it but it costs around $4000! I'm surprised, but are those normal prices?
Thanks everyone for your help!
#10
04-13-19, 09:44 AM
Group Moderator
A leaky external coil ?? They're going to replace the condenser ?
So how is the warranty company handling the situation now ?
So how is the warranty company handling the situation now ?
#11
04-14-19, 06:07 AM
Super Moderator
Ya, which external coil?.......there are two........indoor evaporator and outside condenser coil.
Often times the tech is also a salesperson and you may not get an objective opinion on the wisdom of a repair.
I come from a repair background and it is possible to repair many leaks by brazing, adding/replacing the refrigerant drier.then evacuating the system and recharging.
If it takes an hour to locate the leak another hour or two should get you up and running in many cases.
Often times the tech is also a salesperson and you may not get an objective opinion on the wisdom of a repair.
I come from a repair background and it is possible to repair many leaks by brazing, adding/replacing the refrigerant drier.then evacuating the system and recharging.
If it takes an hour to locate the leak another hour or two should get you up and running in many cases.
#12
04-16-19, 12:00 PM
Thank you all!
I got a quote to repair le existing installation for $2200.
Home warranty said so fair they will cover the cost of repair or cut me a check if I choose to replace. My understanding is if I replace the condenser, the evaporator can be adapted to work with R410.
I got a quote to repair le existing installation for $2200.
Home warranty said so fair they will cover the cost of repair or cut me a check if I choose to replace. My understanding is if I replace the condenser, the evaporator can be adapted to work with R410.
#13
04-16-19, 01:06 PM
Super Moderator
Ok.
You do not under any circumstances want to use your old evaporator coil.
If you replace the whole unit you would want all new equipment otherwise there will be no solid warranty.
You do not under any circumstances want to use your old evaporator coil.
If you replace the whole unit you would want all new equipment otherwise there will be no solid warranty.
#14
04-19-19, 08:20 AM
Hi there,
GregH: I have competing bids to replace everything for $11K or just the compressor (2 bids) for $4K approx. I am leaning that way, knowing that I would have to replace the evaporator after some time (delay the spending)
I have competing bids for efficiency 14 and 16 Trane. One of the contractos says it makes no sense to get the 16, because of the evaporator I have (2014 Trane tem3a0b24s21saa I would never see a return on the investment. Anyone has an opinion on this? the old, outgoing condesnser is a Trane XL14i.
GregH: I have competing bids to replace everything for $11K or just the compressor (2 bids) for $4K approx. I am leaning that way, knowing that I would have to replace the evaporator after some time (delay the spending)
I have competing bids for efficiency 14 and 16 Trane. One of the contractos says it makes no sense to get the 16, because of the evaporator I have (2014 Trane tem3a0b24s21saa I would never see a return on the investment. Anyone has an opinion on this? the old, outgoing condesnser is a Trane XL14i.
#15
04-19-19, 04:45 PM
Group Moderator
Wait a minute.....
Is this a Trane XL14i heat pump system ?
You have a 2014 evaporator/air handler ?
Was the condenser the same age ?
A not even five year old system.
I was reading some reviews of the XL14i ....... it apparently was well known for compressor failures.
Is this a Trane XL14i heat pump system ?
You have a 2014 evaporator/air handler ?
Was the condenser the same age ?
A not even five year old system.
I was reading some reviews of the XL14i ....... it apparently was well known for compressor failures.
