A/C stopped working, but it's a furnace issue

Reply

  #1  
Old 06-04-19, 07:54 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Canada
Posts: 19
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
A/C stopped working, but it's a furnace issue

Hey guys

My AC unit which was installed less than a year ago, appears to be running fine.
However the furnace is very loud and the cold air is not actually running. I notice some cold spots on the furnace, including in the picture where frost is building!

It's going to get very hot this Friday, I'm a little desperate and wondering if anyone here has any ideas.
 
Attached Images  
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 06-04-19, 08:11 PM
PJmax's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Northern NJ - USA
Posts: 51,481
Received 216 Votes on 205 Posts
Welcome to the forums.

How do you arrive at.... it's a furnace problem ?
Is the blower in the furnace not working ?
If you don't have any airflow...... then the blower has a problem.
It could be a wiring/thermostat problem..... a defective run capacitor on the blower motor..... or a defective blower motor. Typically a meter is required for testing purposes.
 
  #3  
Old 06-04-19, 08:13 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Canada
Posts: 19
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
I figure it's a furnace problem since the furnace is making a very loud noise, and by going outside I can see the AC is working fine.

There is airflow for about an hour, than none. I notice there is cold air in the basement near the furnace, but 0 airflow throughout the house (After an hour).
 
  #4  
Old 06-04-19, 08:33 PM
PJmax's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Northern NJ - USA
Posts: 51,481
Received 216 Votes on 205 Posts
It sounds like it's time for a new blower motor. You could try just replacing the run capacitor
but no guarantee that's the problem.

I don't usually even try that...... I just change the motor and cap at one time.

What happens is the bearing in the motor closest to the blower wheel has a lot of weight hanging on it and wears unevenly. When the motor gets hot...... the bearing seizes.
 
  #5  
Old 06-05-19, 06:39 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Canada
Posts: 19
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Thanks for your replies. I'll try to see if it's the furnace motor
 
  #6  
Old 06-05-19, 09:36 AM
Member
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,205
Upvotes: 0
Received 27 Votes on 25 Posts
Dont run the air conditioner like that, youll cause damage.
 
  #7  
Old 06-05-19, 11:18 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Canada
Posts: 19
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Currently the AC is off. Turned it off once I noticed
 
  #8  
Old 06-05-19, 06:31 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Canada
Posts: 19
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
So I had someone come to look at it, he said the installation was crap, and the brand is crap (York). Apparently they use aluminum wires which are crap.

Anyway, he said their is a leak somewhere and we should buy a new AC. He quoted us for a Carrier AC which will be $3,600.

Hope you guys don't mind me asking for your opinion(s). I can't exactly afford a new AC, but it's supposed to get really hot on Friday.
 
  #9  
Old 06-05-19, 06:39 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Canada
Posts: 19
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Just to add to my last comment, I'm mostly curious to know if 'York' is that bad of a brand. It's been less than a year, I wasn't expected to buy a new AC so quickly (AC was installed last August).
 
  #10  
Old 06-05-19, 06:45 PM
PJmax's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Northern NJ - USA
Posts: 51,481
Received 216 Votes on 205 Posts
You said my unit was installed a year ago.
Do you mean the A/C was installed into an existing furnace a year ago ?
How old is the furnace ?

If there was a leak and you were low on refrigerant...... the outside condenser would not be running. Your is. Therefore very doubtful of a leak.

I am leery of a tech that says the brand is crap. The tech is supposed to go over the system and make an educated diagnosis. Saying the equipment is crap is not helpful. He may have meant York uses aluminum coils..... not wires. Many companies use aluminum coils. Unfortunately that tech would not score high in my book.

I would highly recommend a second opinion.
It sounds like you need a blower motor..... not a new system.
 
  #11  
Old 06-05-19, 07:03 PM
Member
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,205
Upvotes: 0
Received 27 Votes on 25 Posts
I’m very confused.
Your air conditioner was brand new last August, which would make it still under warranty, but this guy said you need a whole new unit because the brand is bad and the install is crap?!?!
You got a moron sales tech.
There is no such thing as a good or bad brand.
Bad installs can be corrected.
And none of this explains why your blower isn’t working.
 
  #12  
Old 06-05-19, 07:45 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Canada
Posts: 19
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
@PJmax
The tech mentioned the Aluminum coils when saying York is not a great brand.
He did some tests and did look around, he measured the temperatures and found they were very off.

He was not blunt about York being crap, but did say that York was a crap brand.

@roughneck77
The AC has a warranty, from what I understand that it's due to a leak which may not be part of the unit it won't be covered. I am going to contact the company (York) tomorrow to find out about the warranty. But according the website, it's good until July 2023.

Just to clarify the Tech was not blunt about the brand being crap, but did say the brand was crap. He also said the install was not done well and their are too many connections (or something similar).

The person who did our install last August used the old connections for the old AC and warned us he was using the old connections. I'm not a very AC/Furnace technical person, so I'm not exactly sure what that means in terms of good/bad practice.

I have another AC guy coming out tomorrow evening, after hearing the responses on here, I believe a second opinion is a good idea!
 
  #13  
Old 06-05-19, 07:48 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Canada
Posts: 19
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
@PjMax
Forgot to mention, I believe the condenser is running. I took a look at the outside unit and the fan is spinning, everything seems normal, except that the Furnace is very loud and the Air stops flowing after about an hour at which point frost can be seen on the pipe (picture).
 
  #14  
Old 06-05-19, 08:31 PM
Member
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,205
Upvotes: 0
Received 27 Votes on 25 Posts
Why not call the installer back?
Read here for information about which brand name is best-

https://www.angieslist.com/articles/...vac-brands.htm
 
  #15  
Old 06-05-19, 08:52 PM
PJmax's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Northern NJ - USA
Posts: 51,481
Received 216 Votes on 205 Posts
So far..... it doesn't appear to be an install or A/C related issue.
We're dealing with a blower problem that is in an old ????? gas furnace. Or did I misunderstand you ?
 
  #16  
Old 06-06-19, 05:13 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Canada
Posts: 19
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
@roughneck77
I can't get a hold of the original installer. I only have his name & email. He works for himself & not a company.

@Pjmax
Sorry for the confusion, I don't actually know what the issue is, the tech said it's a Leak somewhere.
The AC unit seems to run fine, but after about an hour the furnace sounds like a lawnmower, the pipes freeze up and the cold air stops throughout the house

I agree it could be the blower. The Furnace is not that old (5 years IIRC).

When I posted this I had assumed the Furnace was for sure the issue, that's my mistake. I'm not 100% sure if it's the AC or furnace at this point,
 
  #17  
Old 06-06-19, 05:20 AM
Member
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,205
Upvotes: 0
Received 27 Votes on 25 Posts
Post some pictures of this supposedly bad installation.
You’ll need to check and see if the motor spins freely, and if it’s stopping mid cycle.
I’m still clueless why someone would tell you your system needs to be replaced when it was less then 1 year old.
Was the install done by someone working on the side?
 
  #18  
Old 06-06-19, 05:49 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Canada
Posts: 19
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
I'll take some pics after work for sure.
The motor spins freely. Even when the air stops and the furnace is making a loud noise, the AC unit spins and sounds normal.

The install was indeed being done by someone on the side. The tech could be right about the install being done badly. It was done last August, so the AC has only been used for less than 7 months total (Living in Manitoba, long winters)
 
  #19  
Old 06-06-19, 05:58 AM
Member
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,205
Upvotes: 0
Received 27 Votes on 25 Posts
So the blower motor still runs but air stops coming out of the vents?
The indoor blower, NOT the condenser motor in the outdoor unit.
If it was side work your unit was likely not registered for the additional warranty. Which you might not have anyway with a side job project.
 
  #20  
Old 06-06-19, 06:02 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Canada
Posts: 19
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
I am not sure about the indoor blower. I just know the motor on the outside unit runs fine.

I believe it is registered for warranty, not for labor but for the capacitor & parts until July 2023. The guy who installed it told me where to go to register it online, which I did.
 
  #21  
Old 06-06-19, 06:13 AM
Member
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,205
Upvotes: 0
Received 27 Votes on 25 Posts
The condenser fan motor doesn’t have anything to do with moving air through the vents.
The blower motor is what needs to be checked.
If you run the air conditioner with no blower motor it’ll cause damage to the unit. Could even destroy the compressor.
 
  #22  
Old 06-06-19, 08:08 AM
ray2047's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 33,597
Upvotes: 0
Received 13 Votes on 11 Posts
First off you do not have a furnace issue. You have an air handler unit issue. The same fan for both.
 
  #23  
Old 06-06-19, 09:51 AM
Member
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: USA
Posts: 494
Upvotes: 0
Received 1 Vote on 1 Post
You need to find a good service tech that can actually trouble shoot the problems that you are having with the A?C unit. Just guessing that the problem is here or there will not fix anything. If the unit is new then there is a certain amount of warranty time for both labor and equipment. If you had a "fly by night" company which is what we used to call them, install the A/C unit and they won't return to fix their problem then you got what you paid for. From your description of the operation, it sounds to me that the A/C unit may or may not have the correct refrigerant charge and that the coil is icing up. That would account for the air flow at start up with reduced or no air flow an hour or so later. Remember, guys like me and others are not at your residence so our guesses are just that, guesses. If the original installer will not return to fix his problem, check with your neighbors to see if they can recommend a good service company and call them. One more thing, most units use the same compressors, contactors, capacitors, and controls so most are similar except for the "color" of the units. The biggest difference is in the quality of the installation.
 
  #24  
Old 06-06-19, 08:52 PM
PJmax's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Northern NJ - USA
Posts: 51,481
Received 216 Votes on 205 Posts
Ok..... so we've established you have an approximately 5 year old furnace. We've established the blower motor keeps running but it gets louder, the air flow slows down and almost stops. We've established heavy frost on the line at the evap coil. It sounds like the system is low on refrigerant and the coil is icing up.

A defective blower motor should be ruled out first. You could try running it for several hours in FAN ON mode without the A/C running. If the blower runs for several hours.... you've confirmed it's ok.

If the blower motor is failing in the furnace..... it would be a non A/C related problem.
 
  #25  
Old 06-07-19, 05:04 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Canada
Posts: 19
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
I can run with FAN ON mode for several hours without issues
 
  #26  
Old 06-07-19, 05:07 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Canada
Posts: 19
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
The tech came by, he said the installation does not look bad. He didn't see anything wrong with it.

It's most likely a leak. He's gonna come back Wednesday for a leak test.
The gas was low and the temperature was off.
 
  #27  
Old 06-07-19, 10:11 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Canada
Posts: 19
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Thanks for all the replies & help. I was pretty overwhelmed when I first posted this, and even more so after the first tech came.

I finally got a hold of the original installer, he's going to come by Tuesday and says if it's related to install, fix it free of charge. I really didn't think I'd ever get a hold of this guy.

I'll update the post when the issue is found/solved.
 
  #28  
Old 06-14-19, 08:40 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Canada
Posts: 19
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Just to update this post, the original installer came by yesterday

He pulled the rubbery insulation shown in the picture over the pipe. I didn't realize it was supposed to fully cover the pipe and must have retracted itself over time. This was causing the pipe to freeze up at that turn (shown in the picture).

Anyways, the AC is working again. Can't believe the first Tech wanted me to buy an entire new system.
 
  #29  
Old 06-14-19, 08:55 AM
Member
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,205
Upvotes: 0
Received 27 Votes on 25 Posts
No insulation will NOT cause a freeze up.
I’m afraid what your guy did was to literally cover up the problem. No frost or ice should ever form on those lines.
 
  #30  
Old 06-14-19, 09:48 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Canada
Posts: 19
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
The house is cooling down fine now, and the furnace no longer sounds like a lawnmower.

He also added some refrigerant. But that's all.

Another issue I forgot to mention here is that the AC was not producing water from the drain tube down to the drain. But that issue is also gone now
 
  #31  
Old 06-14-19, 09:50 AM
Member
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,205
Upvotes: 0
Received 27 Votes on 25 Posts
So if he added refrigerant, where was the leak?
 
  #32  
Old 06-14-19, 10:14 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Canada
Posts: 19
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Their is no leak. That's what the other AC Tech told us, but the guy who fixed the issue yesterday said right away he's not finding any signs of a leak and does not believe it's a leak.
 
  #33  
Old 06-14-19, 10:18 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Canada
Posts: 19
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Just to add to my last comment, he said the refrigerant was not low, but added some just in case.
 
  #34  
Old 06-14-19, 10:20 AM
Member
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,205
Upvotes: 0
Received 27 Votes on 25 Posts
You don’t add some just in case.
Overcharging can cause serious issues. Including compressor failure from flooding and oil washout.
I don’t know that I’ve heard a more ridiculous statement before.
It’s sounding more and more like he has no idea what he’s doing.
Low refrigerant=leak.
 
  #35  
Old 06-14-19, 10:26 AM
Member
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,205
Upvotes: 0
Received 27 Votes on 25 Posts
And the lack of insulation didn’t cause the line to build frost like that. That’s a refrigerant problem, likely from being low on charge due to a leak.
 
  #36  
Old 06-14-19, 10:41 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Canada
Posts: 19
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
I'll be sure to monitor it over the next few days.
The AC has been working for the last ~12 hours so far
 
  #37  
Old 06-14-19, 10:43 AM
Member
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,205
Upvotes: 0
Received 27 Votes on 25 Posts
Yes, but it will only work as long as there is sufficient refrigerant in the system. Until it leaks down again and the symptoms return. This will depend on how big the leak is.
 
  #38  
Old 06-15-19, 03:26 PM
Member
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Southern Arizona
Posts: 45
Upvotes: 0
Received 1 Vote on 1 Post
Every manufacturer makes a unit for a price point. Most are made in China now. Yes some manufacturers use AL for the coils inside and some do not. They all do outside.

The equipment is about 45% of the system and the install is the rest. IMO Brand names mean very little the guy turning the wrenches is what counts.

I find it difficult to understand that a system not low on coolant, works and quiets down after a shot of coolant.
The condensate drain does not mean anything at first. AC's remove humidity as a byproduct of them running. If the unit turns off and on a lot you will not get much condensate.
Insulation over the pipes helps at keeping the coolant a liquid over long distances. The coolant inside the pipe is not cold, it only changes state when it is pushed through the orifice in the condenser and turns to a gas. The gas pipe the little one is always warm to hot when it is running.

I would look for recommendation from a friend for someone to spend your money with on the system you have.
If they keep saying new equipment then keep looking. Unless of course they provide you with the Manual J and Manual D calculations. Then you have found someone to trust.
Manual J is cooling
Manual D is how the duct work operates.
 
Reply

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Display Modes