Replacing R22 system

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  #1  
Old 06-26-19, 11:42 AM
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Replacing R22 system

My old 2 ton York R22 XB1000 has died too many condenser coil leaks.
I guess I need to replace it with an R-410A system, condenser unit, and air handler?

My circuit breaker is 30 amps.
The line distance from the condenser location outside, lines buried in the walls of the 2 story condo and up into the attic where the Trane furnace is is about 40 feet.

Ideally, I'd like something larger, maybe 2.5 tons.

The air handler box on top of the Trane measures (outside dimensions) 30.125 tall x 20.375 front to back x 14.625 wide. Is it easy to find a drop in 410A evaporator coil?

Any other issues I have to consider other than flushing the lines (maybe line diameters)?

I have all the tools to install, evacuate, charge and test.
 
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Old 06-26-19, 12:50 PM
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drop in coils will not be available You will need to replace the outdoor, indoor, elec heat and maybe line set if its not the correct size.
 
  #3  
Old 06-26-19, 02:38 PM
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I heard that 410A coils are larger, hence the need for a larger air handler box.
This box sits on top of a Trane tue060a936k3 furnace that has up-flow; the furnace is in perfect condition. The coil is on top and outlets are on the upper left side and upper rear side of the box.

Yes, I realized I had to replace the outside condenser and pump because that is where I found the leak, and I realize I will be matching the evaporator to outside unit naturally.

I'm unclear as to what you mean by electric heat, the air handler sits upon natural gas furnace, this system is in the attic.

Hose or line sizes? Do you suggest using something like here
https://yorkcentraltechtalk.wordpres...-lines-part-2/
to determine if the existing line size (was for R22) is adequate?

I'd prefer not to replace the furnace, but rather adapt the replacement 410A coil into a new air handler box
 
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Old 06-26-19, 04:15 PM
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Hi, I would take the dimensions of the plenum to a refrigeration supply store and see what is available, no need for electric heat with a gas furnace.
Geo
 
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Old 06-26-19, 04:25 PM
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Thanks, Geo, that is what I was pondering, I have the dimensions of the outside of the air handler box on top of the Trane measures (outside dimensions) 30.125 tall x 20.375 front to back x 14.625 wide. I could google a dozen manufacturer's sites for sizes.
 
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Old 06-26-19, 05:35 PM
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Aren’t you concerned about the cost to redo the ductwork to handle the added capacity of a 2.5 ton unit?
What did the manual J come out to as far as building load, to support increasing tonnage?
 
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Old 06-26-19, 05:52 PM
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Sounds like you have tools but no residential experience. Read the specs of the unit you buy and it will say what line sizes are needed.

Why not go with a cased coil and then do a simple transition?

14" is narrow and some manufacturers don't make a 2.5 ton coil that small. They have plenum adapters instead and want you to use a 17".
 
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Old 06-27-19, 05:16 AM
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Roughneck77,
lol, I'm concerned about any cost.
I had an experienced HVAC chap whom I used before inspect this 2nd floor 1500 sq ft condo located in Northern NJ just before I purchased it. He said he did not have to look at it because he had been there before and quoted the previous owner $400 to replace circuit board (I assume some board in Trane Furnace model TUE060A963K3. However he said (in February) that compressor kicked on, he could not read pressures (maybe because it was cold outside) and all it needed was a board. I bought condo and asked him to replace the board in May. He said he did that and told me all was working fine (blowing cold). I turned on the system in early June (85F outdoor ambient) and it was not blowing cold at all. I tossed on a set of gauges and the static was zero. I evacuated, charged with R22 and it blew cold (I forgot my leak detector that day). A week later it was not blowing cold. Pulled it down again, tossed in a pound and sniffed the condenser unit (Trane XB1000) and it was leaking pretty bad. Search around for a new old stock 2 ton R12 system and none to be found. HVAC guy suggested a 2.5 system because the 2 ton was marginal. I agree, I can run J calculation however I can tell you upfront the walls are 4" and the attic which should be 8" looks like someone had a pillow toss up there (another issue to address). I pulled the top off the air handler box last night and it does not look like a well-designed box in terms of the exit supply lines; they have (2) round 12" coming out. One is the left side in one of the 20" sides and the other is adjacent to it on the 14" back side (does not appear to be well laid out). The coil appears to be approximately 12" wide, 19" long and 12" tall (difficult to get a good measurement last night).
 
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Old 06-27-19, 05:28 AM
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Aatuff,

Yes, probably an encased evap coil is the way to go. Briefly I saw Goodman had a few near that size. I was hoping that Trane might have one as a retro from R22 to R410A however trying to contact Trane's tech dept is a pita.

Below is a pic the top of the air-handler box showing the existing R22 coil. Could not see if it has a TEV or orifice tube.
 
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Old 06-27-19, 06:42 AM
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You donít have enough duct for a 2.5 ton unit. You barely have enough for 2 tons.
Never ever increase tonnage without a load calculation verifying the need to do so. Bigger isnít better. And should never be considered any kind of upgrade.
 
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Old 06-27-19, 07:57 AM
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When the system is running there is hardly volume coming out of the vents in any room. I have not done the calculation. At this juncture I just need "something" running to get me comfortable.

It's a 2-ton compressor/condenser outside, a 15-year-old R22 unit with a severe leaking condenser coil.

I have a 30 pounder of R22.
Option 1 least expensive route is to find a new R22 unit for outside (like hen's teeth).
Option 2 least expensive route is to find a good used R22 outside, a gamble unless someone knows a reliable source or someone knows it does not leak beforehand. Any recommendations with
Any
 
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Old 06-27-19, 08:03 AM
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There are no new R22 units available. The dry charge units have become unavailable as well.
Best thing to do would to get a cased R410A coil and replace everything.
No air coming out of the vents doesn’t mean you need a bigger unit. It means you have duct problems.
 
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Old 06-27-19, 08:17 AM
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As to "get a cased R410A coil and replace everything", you mean condenser/compressor unit, drier, and the evaporator with TEV or orifice tube, correct?
 
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Old 06-27-19, 08:27 AM
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Yes, that would be correct. And then figure out what’s wrong with your ductwork.
 
  #15  
Old 06-27-19, 12:42 PM
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It was difficult to see whether the evaporator coil has a TEV or orifice tube. Other than cutting out a new 'door' down below on the coil port side of the box, is there any way to tell?
 
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Old 06-27-19, 01:46 PM
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Kinda looks like a TXV but it’s hard to tell.
 
  #17  
Old 06-27-19, 01:46 PM
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Trane has a 2 ton cased coil that is 14.5 x 21.5
 
  #18  
Old 06-27-19, 02:18 PM
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In terms of a 410A outside condenser/compressor unit. What is the difference compared to an R22 unit.
The coil is larger, the compressor runs POE? Anything else?
 
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