Carrier HVAC Blower Fan Threw a Shoe? Dead?

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Old 10-02-19, 02:58 PM
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Carrier HVAC Blower Fan Threw a Shoe? Dead?

Carrier furnace,

Noticed it was running "louder" (best way I can describe it, like it was struggling to move air) this summer, then last night, when the fan was running, almost sounded like the blower wheel was "sputtering" for lack of a better term. Like it was spinning and then slowing, spinning then slowing, etc. I didn't get a chance to dig into it further and watch it operate, that was going to be a tonight project.

Then today, while at work, got alert of a loud thud from a camera I keep in my basement. Turns out it picked up a loud THUD at the point the furnace totally seized up. The blower wheel isn't turning at all (doesn't turn freely by hand when I reach in either, though that may be normal behavior). Tried to snap a few pics, looks like some bent fins, leading me to believe this sucker almost had something rattle loose, then into the blower wheel, then ka-chunk? Does that happen?

Fan won't run if I tell it to obviously, and I turned it right off at the breaker to risk any further injury to the unit.

Always ran with an air filter in there, never without.

This is a 5 year old house and it was installed brand new with the house so I'm a bit miffed about it all. Interestingly enough, an HVAC tech installed a Reme unit about a month ago, which sits above the blower wheel -- I do wonder if perhaps a component of that unit fell off and down if it would fall into the wheel and cause this type of damage?

Thoughts? Anyone familiar with this scenario?

I appreciate any advice. Model number is Carrier CNPVP6024ALAAAAA.

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Last edited by PJmax; 10-02-19 at 03:24 PM. Reason: resized/labeled picture
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  #2  
Old 10-02-19, 03:21 PM
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Not sure what happened there but the squirrel cage blower wheel is damaged and needs to be replaced. There are many vanes broken off of it. Something could have dropped into it while running.
 
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Old 10-02-19, 03:26 PM
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Hey man! Totally agree with you. The only question is, what broke off and from where that caused that wheel to have that level of damage happen?

Replacing the wheel shouldn't be too bad once I take out all the screws to slide it out, but what I'm really wondering is what actually fell/broke inside the unit somewhere else that got INTO that wheel...is that normal for something to fall and drop into a wheel when it's running and for that to happen? It seems pretty well protected in there unless something else inside the unit broke off loose.
 
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Old 10-02-19, 03:31 PM
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I have NEVER seen that happen before. I have no idea what fell into it.
Whatever it was should still be in the area.
 
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Old 10-02-19, 04:24 PM
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Greatly appreciated. A few good things as I'm trying to look on the bright side here. This unit was installed in my home in November of 2014 meaning I am a month shy of 5 years, meaning if this unit is under a 5 year warranty I think they should be fixing it for nothing. Hope hope. Also, it's the last day of the Fall heat wave here in the Northeast. Finally, looks like a replacement wheel is $90 online as DIY option (which I ordered anyway to have around so there's no waiting if HVAC company comes to fix it sooner).

I'm interested in your insight that you never saw this before, will be very fascinated to see the cause and will of course share. The unit was well protected and filtered so no real way for anything to get at it, and above the unit also looks like a metal wall so I'm thinking defective wheel coming apart itself being the cause.

We shall see I suppose. As always I appreciate your insight and responses, you rule. It looks like a bit of work and possibly wire disconnects to get that wheel out of there so I'm gonna let it sit at least until I talk to HVAC tomorrow.
 
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Old 10-02-19, 09:30 PM
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It is possible for one of those vanes to come loose at one end but in your picture you can see that something has actually bent the top vanes.

The housing and motor usually come out in one piece and then you can take it apart.
There shouldn't be too much holding the blower assembly in there.
 
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Old 10-03-19, 03:52 AM
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I have seen a blower assembly fail where the blade subassembly was rotating at a different rate than its hub because the blade subassembly attachment to the hub dish (by friction) had become loose over time. The noise was painful. Spinning the blower assembly by hand didn't reveal the problem. Got lucky when removing the blower wheel and noticed movement between the hub and blade subassembly. Don't know why manufacturer would not weld 2-4 blades to the hub dish to solidify.
 
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Old 10-03-19, 06:49 AM
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Good deal - I will be back to let you all know what happened once we get it out and get a diagnosis.
 
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Old 10-03-19, 06:52 AM
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It looks like maybe just the two bolts here need removed and I can then slide the whole assembly out? Don't want to get in over my head but if it's that simple I may try it. Of course, it does look like I may need to remove some/all wiring to work on it as well. Here's a look at it from the front.
 
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Old 10-03-19, 09:23 AM
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Yes.... the blower slides out on tracks. There may be a few screws holding it.
 
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Old 10-03-19, 09:00 PM
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Had one several years ago that looked just like that. Ice dropped through a HX from a frozen a-coil that was above a 80% furnace. No idea if that caused your issued, but it did on that one.
 
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Old 10-06-19, 10:16 PM
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Hi all,

Just wanted to check back in with an update -- I can post pics if anyone is interested. After removing the blower wheel, it was very obvious it had failed. Luckily I realized I was under contract with my HVAC folks since I had the system inspected (ironically) start of summer. The wheel just basically failed. Tech who came out said he saw no signs of debris (just one small errant screw inside, he said that's normal and nothing was missing, just install leftovers folks forget often, seems a little odd that installers would sometimes leave metal screws inside HVAC units but whatever).

Long story short since the house was completed 4 years 10 months ago (even though the system was installed mid-build) Carrier is covering parts on warranty, but I am getting socked on a lot of labor -- Turns out that when the wheel blew, shards went flying upward into the square metal grid above the wheel (forget what part that was, radiator or something?) and damaged it badly as well. They also recommended the motor for the blower wheel be replaced with a new one as well.

I am waiting on parts for a pricey labor installation next week (At least a Half days work I am told). Good times on an HVAC unit only 5 years old from Carrier. Sigh!
 
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Old 10-06-19, 10:49 PM
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Left over screws are not un-common.
That still does not look like a typical failure to me.

The part they are changing is the evaporator coil.
If that was damaged then more than likely all the refrigerant also leaked out.
 
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Old 10-07-19, 02:30 PM
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Absolutely correct. The evaporator coil was damaged when the wheel blew and that was the part they needed to order. Who knows what else they decided to order but they had already ordered the wheel and motor to replace since all parts were covered by Carrier (barely) under the remaining month of the 5 year warranty.

That said, I am intrigued by your comment that this is not a common failure and wonder if there is anything else you suggest I ask the repair guy to check when he's here or questions to ask to determine the cause of the failure? He was out to inspect the system just a few short months ago and saw no issues, and I don't run it in any crazy way, so I am of course looking to make sure that this is fixed properly and that any future failures can be avoided. I guess I also need to ask about the refrigerant leaking and if that is being replenished? The evaporator coil looked banged up to me but not totally blown apart like the wheel so maybe it wasn't as bad. I'll get some pics up later, maybe this information can also be helpful to anyone else who sees this happen.
 
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Old 10-07-19, 05:56 PM
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It doesn't look like the blades just came unattached at the ends. The pink arrow shows that something bent those fins in the middle. The metal was actually ripped at the white arrow..... in the middle of a blade.... not where it's attached and would normally break.

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Unless the side that we can't see came loose and the blades swung out and caught something. If this happened the entire inside of the blower enclosure would be scratched up where the blades hit.

 
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Old 10-07-19, 11:46 PM
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if you have a condensing 90%+ furnace possible the secondary heat exchanger hot damaged, not the evap coil.

heat exchanger replacement is very labour intensive.
 
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Old 10-08-19, 05:19 AM
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Thanks gang. Here's a photo of the wheel and the best I could do with above the wheel by sticking a camera in there. If something froze and fell in I'm definitely curious as I imagine that would be something that could happen again. I don't see any loose parts inside or a scratches/damage inside the unit itself other than the damage the broken wheel pieces did above to the evaporator.

I do not believe this is a condensing furnace but I could be wrong, lack of knowledge about these units coming thru here.

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Old 10-08-19, 06:36 AM
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The model number you posted is for a 5 ton cased coil. Not any sort of furnace.
The furnace model number should be in the burner compartment.
 
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Old 10-08-19, 01:24 PM
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if that coil was horizontal and right above the blower, it's your secondary.
 
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Old 10-08-19, 01:33 PM
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Wow.... that is one heck of a crappy wheel.
 
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Old 10-08-19, 08:27 PM
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It sure is, and I assume they are going to replace it with another crappy made wheel of the same material and quality directly from Carrier. Sigh. If there are any tips on things I can do or ask the repair folks to do when they come back I'm all ears.

Roughneck is right, I had the number from the wrong area of the furnace. I do have the model I can share from the inside, I will record it tomorrow and share out for anyone who may need it in the future.

Very disappointed this failed in 5 years. I just hope this can be fixed with quality parts to prevent it from failing again.
 
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Old 10-09-19, 04:28 AM
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The only thing attaching each blade to the hub is a tab(turned 90 degrees to the length of the blade) at the middle of each blade, This tab is sandwiched between the 2 dishes of the hub and held by friction. If the gap between the 2 dishes increases over time, the blade(s) is/are no longer attached to the hub. Its a crap shoot after that. Looking on the web, it appears most blower wheels are made like this.
 
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Old 10-09-19, 12:54 PM
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is the coil in the pick in the furnace, right above the blower?
 
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Old 10-10-19, 08:07 AM
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Hi everyone, yeah I did my best to stick my phone in there above where the blower wheel was (it's out now obviously) and shoot upwards, that's the coil in the photos. I also assume that's the part they are waiting to arrive as the wheel and motor were here for the first repair stop until the tech realized that part had also been damaged and stopped work.

The correct model number of this Carrier unit by the way is 59SC2B120S241122. I was reading off the wrong label. My neighbor up the street had a total failure of his Carrier system right at the 5 year mark as well (different problem). He moved in a year before me.

Not sure if there was anything I could have done to prevent this one, tech didn't think so...I am just hopeful that the replacement parts will be here soon and of better quality than the ones that they put in with the install 5 years back.
 
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Old 10-14-19, 05:01 AM
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Heat Exchanger

Turns out it was the heat exchanger that got damaged when the wheel blew. So yeah a pretty major repair unfortunately. Still waiting on the parts. Surprised itís not better protected but then again I guess these wheels were not supposed to just rip apart.
 
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Old 10-14-19, 02:29 PM
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Thanks user10, you were exactly right, I didn't even know that's what the furnace was, and probably why the labor cost is so much for this repair. I just hope whatever went bad won't happen again. 5 years is too soon.
 
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Old 10-16-19, 01:02 PM
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it's a very major repair - all the parts in the top compartment of the furnace need to come out to remove the heat exchanger.
 
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