Freon the likely cause of air not cold enough?

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Old 07-04-20, 09:33 AM
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Freon the likely cause of air not cold enough?

Just started using the A/C and guess what, it's not cold enough! These things always happen during a holiday weekend, right!!!??

I check at a couple of vents, and the air is blowing out at 72 degrees.

It's a unit that was fitted about 6 years ago, so not old. This morning, I took the top off and hosed in from inside and out, so the air flow should be ok. I'm in Michigan, and the filter is in the furnace in the basement, it's not one of the filters that's somewhere in a room or ceiling. The filter is only a few weeks old, and it's a 5 inch one.

Does it sound like freon is the culprit?

Yeah, just checked again, ambient room temp is 77.7 degrees and the vent output is 71.7 degrees.

It's cooling a little, but not much.

Thanks in advance!

Hugh
 
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Old 07-04-20, 10:25 AM
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Is the system running constantly? Compressor running and not cycling?
 
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Old 07-04-20, 10:30 AM
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Assuming you have a standard inside furnace and outside condenser, is the outside unit running? Can you hear the compressor running? (should be a humming/zzzzzz noise) Can you hear the refrigerant making noise in the copper lineset between the furnace and condenser?Is the small tube hot and the big tube cold?

At the furnace take a temp reading between the return and supply ducts and post here.
 
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Old 07-04-20, 08:49 PM
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Your delta-T is only 6, not enough. You need at least 15. Lack of Freon is the main cause.
 
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Old 07-07-20, 10:24 AM
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Hi,

Tolyn Ironhand roughneck77 clocert

never got notifications of your replies - sorry!

Sunday - put air on for a couple of hours, and found a pool of water in the basement, maybe a cup full. Couldn't see where it had came from.

Monday @ Tuesday - no water.

The outside compressor is running, there is a video below. Note: The fan is turning MUCH faster than the video appears to show. I'm not sure what noises to listen for from the pipes (Tolyn Ironhand), but the large one is cold, though not very cold. About the same as I would expect from an indoor cold water pipe.

Took some readings today.

Thermostat set to 65 degrees about 2 hours ago.
Return air as it hits the filter box = 77.5 degrees.
Air in the main trunk leaving the furnace unit = 75.5


clocert Was your response meant to go to another thread?

Thanks everyone, if you have any ideas .... :-)

Here's the video link: https://hughandersonphotography.com/IMG_9495.mp4


Hugh

 
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Old 07-07-20, 10:27 AM
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The fan looks choppy due to the camera shutter speed.
The compressor is running.
The large copper line must be ice cold. It should be sweating.
It would appear that you need to have the charge checked.
 
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Old 07-07-20, 10:43 AM
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PJmax

Yeah, when I grabbed that pipe in the video, I expected it to be colder. I just went out and paid closer attention - it's barely cold at all. So if that's what it's delivering into the building, it's never going to lower the temperature.

I had sort of thought (as per post title) that freon might be my issue.

I'll get it topped up and report back.

Thanks!!!

Hugh



 
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Old 07-07-20, 10:47 AM
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Make sure to find the leak.
shouldn’t need to be charged
 
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Old 07-07-20, 10:53 AM
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roughneck77

Ah, so likely not dissipation, but a leak. That would make sense, it's only a handful of years old.

Thank you!
 
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Old 07-07-20, 12:05 PM
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Yup, sealed system. Refrigerant isn’t consumed nor released as the unit operates.
Ideally the original charge should last the life of the equipment.
 
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Old 07-07-20, 03:57 PM
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Roughneck - If there is a leak wouldn't the refrigerant be lost to the atmosphere?
 
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Old 07-07-20, 04:32 PM
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Yes it will. How quickly depends on the size of the leak.
 
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Old 07-07-20, 04:45 PM
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Refrigerant isn’t consumed nor released as the unit operates.
You forgot....... In normal operation.

He's joshing with you.
 
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Old 07-10-20, 06:42 PM
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Ha ha, did I start something?

I guess I was saying that sometimes things need topped off - like a fridge needing some gas after a number of years, but not because of a leak. Dissipation was this first word that popped into my head.

Now, the first word that popped into my head when I got the $350 bill for topping up the freon was .....well, let's just say it started with an "F".

Still, that was it guys, today we are nice and cool. :-)

I truly appreciate all of the input. Thanks!!!

Hugh

 
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Old 07-10-20, 07:02 PM
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Where did they find the leak at?
 
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Old 07-10-20, 07:13 PM
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It was the company that fitted the unit a few years back.

He said that he could top it up and it might last for years, or it may not. I asked about a leak, and he said it was extremely difficult to track them, that he could top up the freon, or for a higher cost, also put something through that "might" seal a leak.

I asked what he would do, and he said he would just top up.

I even asked if I could perhaps look for a leak, soapy water etc., and he said it would be too slight to find that way.

Hugh
 
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Old 07-10-20, 07:18 PM
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I’d prepare for another $350 bill then if zero effort was put into even looking.
DO NOT use leak seal products. They cause all sorts of contamination. They should only be used on systems that are near death.
Leaks aren’t that difficult to find. If you have the proper tools.
 
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Old 07-10-20, 07:39 PM
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The unit is approx six years old.
How much refrigerant did it require ?
Keep that invoice handy until the next time you need a charge.

As mentioned and kidded about..... in a perfect world..... no refrigerant using product should ever need a recharge.

Six years to needing a recharge shows a fairly good leak that should be findable.
 
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Old 07-14-20, 07:33 PM
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PJmax

It took 3.25 lb's of freon - at least that's what I was charged.

Hugh

 
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Old 07-14-20, 10:13 PM
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That's about the third of the system capacity. Only time will tell how long until the next recharge.
That should be a findable leak using a refrigerant sniffer.

With the age of the system it's not likely to be a coil. It may be one of the charge valves/fittings.
 
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