Gasoline $1.00 a gallon?

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Old 04-22-08, 05:28 PM
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Gasoline $1.00 a gallon?

Here's an article from Popular Mechanics (popularmechanics.com)

Trees in Your Tank? The Future of Green Gasoline: Earth Day Extra
By Chris Ladd
Photograph by C.J. Burton
Published on: April 22, 2008


Hydrogen, ethanol and even compressed air all have the shrink-wrapped sheen of the bright, green future. But gasoline? At $1 per gallon?

Researchers at UMass Amherst recently published a new method of refining hydrocarbons from cellulose, paving the way to turn wood scraps into gasoline, diesel fuel, Tupperware—anything, essentially, that’s normally refined from petroleum. Many scientists have been working on ways to turn everything from corn stalks to tires into ethanol, sidestepping some of the problems inherent to making fuel from corn and other food products. But ethanol has a number of liabilities, regardless of the source. For instance, it requires automotive engines to be modified and contains less energy than gasoline, driving down fuel economy.

Turning cellulose into gasoline is tricky. Unlike raw crude, which is made up mostly of hydrocarbons to begin with, plant material contains a great deal of oxygen woven into its molecular structure. “Crude oil looks more similar to gasoline than biomass does,” says George Huber, lead author of the new study. “So the challenge is how do you efficiently remove the oxygen and make these compounds that look like gasoline or diesel fuel? And how do you do it in the fewest number of steps and in the most economical way?”

Using a catalyst commonly employed in the petroleum industry, Huber and his colleagues heated small amounts of cellulose very quickly for a matter of seconds before cooling it, producing a high-octane liquid similar to gasoline. “The temperature window is very critical,” Huber says. If you heat too slowly, you produce mainly coke—elemental carbon residue. If you heat too fast, you make mainly vapors. The sweet spot, about 1000 degrees per second, transfers roughly half the cellulose’s energy into hydrocarbons. “If we can get 100 percent yield, we estimate the cost to be about a dollar per gallon,” Huber says. “Right now we’re at 50 percent. Can we get 100 percent? I don’t know. Hopefully we’ll bump those numbers up.”

Huber and his colleagues aren’t the first to derive hydrocarbons from renewable sources. Virent Energy Systems, for example, just signed a deal with Shell to produce gasoline from plant sugars and expects to open a pilot facility in the next two years. UOP is working on a project to produce jet fuel for U.S. and NATO fighters from algal and vegetable oils. But Huber’s work stands out as likely the first direct conversion from cellulose, opening up as potential fuel sources virtually anything that grows. Commercialization of the technology may take another five to 10 years, the researchers predict.

Developments in so-called “green hydrocarbons” arrive as ethanol continues to come under attack as expensive, inefficient and a contributor to rising food prices around the world. (More than a billion bushels of corn are diverted to ethanol production each year.) “There’s certainly a lot of historical inertia for ethanol. It’s gotten us off to a great start, but I can’t see the country transitioning to flex-fuel,” says John Regalbuto, director of the Catalysis and Biocatalysis Program at the National Science Foundation. “I almost think, long term, that we will go to plug-in hybrids. But we’re still going to need diesel and jet fuel—you can’t run trains or fly planes with ethanol or hydrogen.”

“We already have the infrastructure in place to distribute liquid fuels," Huber says. "We’re using them to power transportation vehicles today, and I think that’s what we’ll be using in 10 years and in 50 years. And if you want a sustainable liquid transportation fuel, biomass is the only way to go.
 
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Old 04-22-08, 07:12 PM
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here is another tech that is not far away. I just read about it recently.

oil poopin e-coli

LS9, a company based in San Carlos, CA, and founded by geneticist George Church, of Harvard Medical School, and plant biologist Chris Somerville, of Stanford University, had previously said that it was working on what it calls "renewable petroleum." But at a Society for Industrial Microbiology conference on Monday, the company began speaking more openly about what it has accomplished: it has genetically engineered various bacteria, including E. coli, to custom-produce hydrocarbon chains.
 
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Old 04-22-08, 07:18 PM
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the problem I see with all of the technologies proposed was explained quite simply in the movie "The Formula"

A detective uncovers a formula that was devised by the ****s in WW II to make gasoline from synthetic products, thereby eliminating the necessity for oil--and oil companies. A major oil company finds out about it and tries to destroy the formula and anyone who knows about it.
the formula used coal as a feeder stock. When the CEO of a oil company (who happened to have a copy of "the formula" and had ownership of huge deposits of coal as well as petroleum) when asked why not just release the formula now answered thusly," if we mine it now (referring to the coal) it's jst coal; if we wait (until the petroleum is gone) it's gold"

we will not have an alternative until the current means of energy production is no longer viable. it is bad business to even consider doing anything else.
 
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Old 04-23-08, 03:07 AM
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The real problem with new technology is the unwillingness of people to make an effort to try something new. We all want the exact same products with no compromise. Change will only occur if we are willing to sacrifice a little for the greater good.

I'm not naive, I realize what a gargantuan task it is to improve fuel efficiency, reduce pollution, reduce greenhouse gases... but we have to try. What if we all just give up and say, "Well, that's it...we're doomed."?

Perhaps it won't matter to us, but what about our children and our grandchildren?

(See, I DO have a serious bone in my body- you just have to know where it is )

Connie
 
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Old 04-23-08, 06:56 AM
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The biggest problem with all the "new" energy sources being researched is that they are still either more expensive or less efficient than the $4 gasoline we are now using.
 
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Old 04-23-08, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by connie View Post
I realize what a gargantuan task it is to improve fuel efficiency.......
It's not that hard. People need to stop buying (and stop letting the car companies talk them into BELIEVING they need to drive) some of the fuel-sucking behemoths on the road; Cadillac Escalade, Ford Expedition, Chevy Suburban, Hummer just to name a few.
Add to that all the vehicles with V-6's that can just as easily be powered by a 4 cylinder (my wife's 4 cylinder Camry has more than enough power and I think about this every time I'm behind a 75 year old Grandmother driving a V-6 Camry; who sold her on a V-6?). Again, the car companies can take a fair amount of blame. There's a really disgusting (IMHO) commercial on TV now for a 450 hp Mercedes; puh-lease! Add the SUV-on-steroids crowd to those driving V-6's that could run on a 4 (and V-8's that could be adequately powerd with a V-6) and you have a significant percentage of the cars on the road. And that's without even touching on other fuel efficiency stupidity like four wheel drive and AWD.

Okay, off the soap box.
 
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Old 04-23-08, 12:20 PM
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Tow guy - My wife drives one of those 6 cyl, 4 WD SUV's. We're about to replace it with another one. We bought the first one after she got stuck (and scared) during a snowstorm.

The problem is - who's the problem? My 8 cyl pickup driven 4-5K a year, my wife's SUV driven 10-12K a year or my neighbor's 4 cyl econobox driven 25- 30K a year (she commutes 90+ miles a day - her husband commutes 40 miles a day in the other direction)?

The real issue isn't gas consumption as it is finding a replacement for petroleum based energy. Decreasing US demand by improving fuel efficiency will have little effect since the real problem is increased demand (and market competition for diminishing or at best stable supplies) in other parts of the world.

BTW - Do you tow with a Honda Civic? I just had my PU towed and the operator was complaining because he only gets 8 mpg with his rig.
 
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Old 04-23-08, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by the_tow_guy View Post
And that's without even touching on other fuel efficiency stupidity like four wheel drive and AWD.
I agree that there are a lot of 4x4s on the road that aren't necessary but there are many in snow country or mountains that need 4 wheel drive. We don't get a lot of snow but when we do my driveway is only accesable with 4 wheel and I have chains that I occasionally have to put on my jeep - or walk better than a 1/4 mile up hill from the road

I don't know much about alternative fuels but back when they first mandated 55mph I thought instead they should add gears to the tranny or rear end - when was the last time you drove a 3 speed I still think we can have power with a smaller fuel efficent motor utilizing more gears, although smaller vehicles would go a long way.
 
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Old 04-23-08, 02:34 PM
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Thanks for jumping in there in my absence, mark.

Wayne - I had to dash off and burn up some gas at 8 mpg (me, too) and wasn't able to add some clarification, so here it is:

I understand that some people have the need for said vehicles. I have no arguement with that. If I lived in snow country or the mountains I might have a big 4x4, too, but half the country lives where the only snow & mountains they see is on postcards and an awful lot of the 4x4's cruising the roads dragging that extra weight around never get taken out of 2WD.

Trust me, I would LOVE to tow cars with a 35 mpg vehicle if there was one to be had. But note that while my business vehicle, where there is no option, may get low mileage, our personal vehicle is a 4 cyl Camry (and the next one will likely be, too).

We're in agreement on supply, demand, and alternatives.

Wayne - Going off on a tangent, how much was your tow and what general location (if you don't mind me asking).
 
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Old 04-23-08, 02:59 PM
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Unhappy cheap gas

wasn't going to jump in, but couldn't help it.
i received an e-mail with pictures of cars being filled at various gas stations in the middle east. gas prices range from low of $.81(yes cents) a gal. to about $1.00. this leads me to believe that the money is being made in the refining, transporting and PROFIT areas. yes oil is limited, but the GREED aparently is not. we will have to, and should, find alternative fuels but that too will, in time, go up to the point that we are at now with gas. as long as there is a way for the large producers of energy to exact an undue amount of profit, there will always be shortages and high prices. the real key is to limit our excess usage of energy products.
yes we should keep trying to find better ways, but the real monster is GREED! how much is enough???
is that cynical?? sorry!!!
 
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Old 04-23-08, 03:13 PM
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I mentioned this vehicle someplace else, but this is going to be my next run around car...157 miles per gallon....you can get on the waiting list...

http://evolution.loremo.com/


Connie
 
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Old 04-23-08, 04:35 PM
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I like this one better although it gets 135 equivilant mpg.

http://www.teslamotors.com/
 
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Old 04-23-08, 05:19 PM
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Oh, yes, Nap...I'd rather have the Tesla, too, but I'm pretty sure the only hundred grand I might be able to put my hands on would be a candy bar!

The Loremo should run around $30,000. (That's still more than I paid for my first house in Indiana! ) I haven't checked the website lately for updates, but I think there will be an electric version as well as diesel.

Connie
 
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Old 04-23-08, 06:10 PM
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ya it's $100k but the chica's will love it
 
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Old 04-23-08, 07:41 PM
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Alternative Fueled, Hybrid and Electric Vehicles > Gasoline $1.00 a gallon?

mikeTN -

The retail gas prices in much of the world are distorted by taxes and subsidies, so you cannot determine where the real "profit" is.

From what I understand, Iran and several other oil producing countries import gasoline and grant subsidies to keep the local retail price artificially low.

In the world of gas users, the U.S. has the lowest gas price, despite the weakening of the dollar in buying power. Most of our crude is from Canada and Mexico, but the price for crude is determined by the international demand. Our taxes are just lower and we have an efficient distribution system from pumphead to refinery to market. The dramatic rises are due to limited refining capacity/storage and speculation on crude prices.
 
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Old 04-23-08, 07:58 PM
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it appears we all understand the problems, but it's difficult to adapt while being practical and thrifty. I am not poor, but I do not have money to throw around. I would like to have a nice, fuel efficient vehicle to drive, but I cannot give up my truck. I haul mulch, tools and materials to Habitat sites, trips to the landfill with yard waste.

So, to have the fuel efficiency for every day driving, I need another vehicle, plus more taxes,insurance and maintainence?

As much as I want to contribute less money to the gas companies, how many mpg will I have to save to equal the price of that other vehicle?

Connie
 
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Old 04-23-08, 08:03 PM
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the main reason for high crude prices is demand in developing countries such as china and india. what most people don't realize is fuel is only a small part of crude usage, plastics and other manufactured products are equally large users. The only way to get prices down is going to be either cost efective alternatives or larger supplies. one thing about it is that as prices stay up the incinative for developing alternatives goes up to. My vehicle i drive for work weighs 10K lb. and gets about 12 mpg but for what I do a smaller veh is not practable.

Life begins when the kids leave home and the dog dies.
 
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Old 04-23-08, 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by the_tow_guy View Post
Thanks for jumping in there in my absence, mark.

Wayne - I had to dash off and burn up some gas at 8 mpg (me, too) and wasn't able to add some clarification, so here it is:

I understand that some people have the need for said vehicles. I have no arguement with that. If I lived in snow country or the mountains I might have a big 4x4, too, but half the country lives where the only snow & mountains they see is on postcards and an awful lot of the 4x4's cruising the roads dragging that extra weight around never get taken out of 2WD.

Trust me, I would LOVE to tow cars with a 35 mpg vehicle if there was one to be had. But note that while my business vehicle, where there is no option, may get low mileage, our personal vehicle is a 4 cyl Camry (and the next one will likely be, too).

We're in agreement on supply, demand, and alternatives.

Wayne - Going off on a tangent, how much was your tow and what general location (if you don't mind me asking).
I live in the North East. The tow was less than 10 miles and it would have been $90 but the tow guy gave me a break and charged $60. He was towing for a shop that gives him a lot of work. I ended up paying $30 for the tow and the shop paid the rest. It was warrantee work.
 
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Old 04-24-08, 04:00 PM
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While we've all heard the saying '90% of all statistics are made up, the other 10% are lies'..

I've read reports that show the use of alternative fuels (such as ethanol) actually have a higher adverse environmental impact that fossil fuels.

The problem with SUV's as I see it isn't their MPG, it's that they are excluded from the calculations of minimum MPG's. Add them to the mix, and I'm betting 100% of all car manufacturers would fail their federal standards for average mpg.

Along with that is simply, car makers will stop making them when consumers stop buying them. Don't blame the car maker for selling you what you want.

As for international prices for gasoline, as another poster mentioned, many of these states (that have oil) subsidize their fuel for the populace. I saw on the news that gasoline in Venezuela is 25 cents a gallon, across Europe, it's over $12 (or what, $8 a liter?), mostly comprised of taxes and fees that fuel the government coffers and discourage the use of automobiles.

Crude oil is use to make so many products that you don't realize. Virtually all plastics are made of crude, plexiglass, vinyl siding, the $2 bottle of water (that you could have gotten from the tap for .004 cents), all many of tire and rubber products, asphalt, etc.

Are there alternatives? Sure there are, are we the people willing to make the sacrifices those alternatives demand. Not a chance.

I'd have no problem driving an electric car on my 4 mile commute, but am I willing to pay 30 grand for it? Nope. Now, get me a working, reliable used electric car in the $3000 range, and I'd be all over it. I'd could rent a 'real' car for long trips and still come out ahead.
 
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Old 04-24-08, 05:05 PM
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Good points by all of you... Another problem will be servicing new vehicles. We've had this big debate about tankless hot waters heaters in that forum, several times.

The tankless is definitely an energy saver, it costs more than a regular water heater, but not so much that it's out of reach. The problem is that when something goes wrong with it, there is no one qualified to service it.

I expect it will be much the same whether one chooses a "Loremo" or a "Tesla". We need companies like Lexus to handle the new technologies...When Lexus had a product recall, their representatives called every single owner before the recall was made public and offered to pick up the Lexus, have it serviced and then return it to the customer. When one of their new models was late getting to the dealers, customers were given a free IPOD for waiting.

LG appliances are another good example of the cart before the horse- I've had an LG washer/dryer for a couple of years, and have not yet needed service, so can't state with certainty, but I'm betting it's going to be difficult. I have one machine, it is both a washer and a dryer. It does not need to be vented. It does a full size load of laundry, saves energy and saves water. The down side? A load takes about four hours.

So, I am willing to sacrifice some convenience in the name of efficiency, but when it comes to another vehicle,as Pendragon noted, "am I willing to pay another 30 grand?"

Connie
 
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Old 04-24-08, 07:39 PM
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Isn't the promise of cheap gasoline just another round of self centered self indulgence for a consumptive lifestyle. What happened to the integrated problem solving approach? The one that incorporates population growth rates verse real world resources (including oxygen, rain and water, land use, topography and climate, urban planning and building design, food, power and greenhouse gas emissions, monetary and political policy, plus many others), a frank discussion and analysis of the consumptive lifestyle, corporate management, and the rate at which people worldwide will be able too consume.

Much of this thread focuses on fuel, and the consumption of, for personal transportation. It is oblivious to the needs to the transportation industry. Your very own supply chain and lifeline. It ignores that rising oil prices will continuing, and that will cause irreparable harm and death in improvised lands. Often the remainder of the world depends on vital recourses from those lands. Convert the entire earth to fuel, if you choose, but this problem isn't going away.
 
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Old 04-25-08, 05:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Wayne Mitchell View Post
The tow was less than 10 miles and it would have been $90 but the tow guy gave me a break and charged $60. He was towing for a shop that gives him a lot of work. I ended up paying $30 for the tow and the shop paid the rest. It was warrantee work.
That's not bad. A 10 mile tow will run you $66 with me right now.

Originally Posted by Pendragon View Post
While we've all heard the saying '90% of all statistics are made up, the other 10% are lies'..
The better version of that is that there are three kinds of lies: Lies, damn lies, and statistics. Useful quotation in an election year.
 
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Old 04-25-08, 04:40 PM
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Connie: I also have one of those machines. I just start it with delay before i leave for work. When I come home, the laundry is done.

Now, if it would just fold and put it away for me, we'd have something!
 
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Old 04-25-08, 06:50 PM
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the thing we'd better recognize is that oil is a limited commodity. it's going away and at a point in time, there won't be any more, period, end of discussion. ok, so what you say? Based on geologic tests it's estimated that the earth still contains a thousand billion barrels of oil...that's alot you might think...so much it'll outlast my lifetime. maybe for some of us. It's estimated that all that oil in the ground all over the earth will last a mere 35 years at the present rate of consumption. Now...factor in the emerging economies of india and china which are growing at an alarming rate. Based on growth rate estimates...all that oil may only last around 20 years. Think of how many industries will be changed when the oil runs out...it's already been said above...we depend on oil for so much more than just transportation and we are a VERY transportation dependent society. We may not want to change as was said earlier in this post...but change IS coming. I will agree that how much we really have is an educated guess but my first statement is not a guess...we are destined to use it all.

you may also find it interesting to know that US oil production peaked in the early 70's and that if we took all the oil from alaska, texas and the gulf of mexico...we'd have enough to run this country for about 2 years...based on what we use today. we're dependant on foreign oil alright...and that puts the US in a precarious position.

hybrids, electrics and whatnot are a step in the right direction, albeit a small one. we need to keep up the pressure on politicians esp to fund the right things and promote changes in society.

man...did we(I) digress, or what?
 
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Old 04-26-08, 02:14 AM
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Ha! No, carguy, you didn't digress, we did! It's so easy to get off track with such an important issue. I had not read the "35 years or less" time line.

One other point worth mentioning- even if we, as individuals, all drive vehicles with 137 mpg, we are literally a drop in the bucket- planes, ships, cruise ships,all commercial vehicles are mighty consumers of fuel.

It may be time to return to Fulton's Folly. (Assuming there is a way to produce steam, powered by solar, not coal.)

Connie
 

Last edited by connie; 04-26-08 at 02:16 AM. Reason: The other half of that idea!
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Old 04-27-08, 07:35 AM
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Alternative Fuels Is The Answer, Just Not Ethanol

Interesting subject,

I cruise all the forums on alternative fuels being an advocate and user for years, so current gas prices are not as much of an issue as it is to SUV owners, which I was at one time.

Reality is, price of oil is manipulated from OPEC on down to refiners. The recession will break this cycle as so many are not driving as much as they use to, it is slow trend, but it is showing up in statistics as prices near $4.00 a gallon in many areas. Look at what a report of firing on Irananian high speed boats near a tanker does. An oil pipeline break, maintenance shut down, and on and on it goes, more of these released stories are manipulation than they are fact.

Just look at how prices jump on every little bit of bad news, now who do you think is benefiting most, certainly not the lowly consumer at the bottom of supply chain. By the time news hits, prices are up, and when events cool off, we never see prices recede as quickly as they went up, if ever, hence the near $4.00 price of gas. It all goes back to gov. who did nothing of any substance when first oil embargo screwed us to wall. Is it any wonder why, after all, when did you ever see a polititian leave office not being a millionaire a few times over. Oil money has been greasing the pockets of politicians since the beginning of time, why else would they still be subsidized by us tax payers when they are pulling in billions in profits every month off our backs?

When I read about peak oil, I just laugh. Sure, in some areas like SaudiLand and Mexico, they are past peak, but that is not the case overall, so again, it is all price manipulation based on half truths. If you are really interested in the subject of peak oil as reason for high prices, you need to watch this video to learn the truth about gov. manipulation of oil prices. Live and learn is what I always say. As to ethanol, another gov. subsidy rip off, I won't even start or this post won't end. lol

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...74697167011147
 
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Old 04-27-08, 01:09 PM
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So, that's it then. The problem, or non-problem, is solved. Simply use the pen to replace the entire political base; become an advocate for alternative fuels; then resume activities as usual. Simple clarity. That's what this world needs. That, and $1.00 a gallon gas.
 
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Old 04-27-08, 02:00 PM
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Gasoline $1.00 a gallon?

It may be $1.00 per gallon, but there may not be much available at that price in the U.S. - There are far bigger markets or faster growing markets (China, India, SE Asia) that will pay a higher price and have been doing so for years (like Europe).
 
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Old 04-28-08, 03:52 AM
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...... and a $1 isn't always a $1, I read or saw on the news a year or so ago that a country in Africa still had gas at 35 cents a gallon - only the average wage was only $1 per day that country did not import or export any petroleum.
 
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Old 04-28-08, 04:40 AM
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The "beauty" being in the eye of the beholder. Does anyone REALLY want to live in ANY of the places noted as having cheap gas???
 
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Old 04-28-08, 09:03 AM
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You have a most excellent point Tow Guy. I'll gladly pay $4 a gallon for gas if it means I get to keep clean running water, paved roads and regular trash pickup and a population that doesn't have an 80% STD rate.
 
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Old 04-28-08, 10:05 AM
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Pendragon, Mark and Tow Guy, I both agree and understand...cheap gas and poverty are relegated to many areas of the world, and I wouldn't want to live in those circumstances, either.

But, as happens frequently with any subject that is brought before us, we've fed off each other's remarks, enjoyed some lively discourse, and forgotten what the original post was about (Really funny to me, because I submitted it!)

The article I read said gasoline, as we currently use it, could be made from cellulose hydrocarbons, created by scraps of almost any material to produce "gasoline" for $1.00 a gallon.

You all are the best! I wish I'd had you on my debate team in high school! (Oh, wait a minute...I wasn't on the debate team in high school...I just had a crush on one of the guys on the team )

Connie
 
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Old 04-28-08, 12:20 PM
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Not prying about your age, connie, but are you old enough to remember when nuclear power was going to be "too cheap to meter"?
 
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Old 04-28-08, 01:40 PM
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Ha, ha ha! You think I am maybe being naive? I am an optimist, true, but I am clever enough to know if the government tells me, "This is perfectly safe.", I want to think about that first.

I think that's what worries me about the hydrogen cell technology for cars...It's bad enough riding around with highly flammable gasoline.

Connie
 
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Old 04-28-08, 02:47 PM
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There is a new vehicle that will have a tremendous effect on the demand for fuel in the Asian suncontinent (over 1,000,000,00 people) and SE Asia (equally large). China will probably bring out a copy. The increased use of cars will have a hugeeffect of the demand for fuel.

Because of the price, it opens up ownership to many people. In these markets, there are many 3 wheeled taxis that spout smoke and pollute. In addition to new car owners, many of the taxi owners will buy these to replace the 3 wheelers, offering the 3 wheelers for sale at reduced prices to other buyers with less resources. The bottom line is moore cars using more gas by people that are willing to pay for it.

A site for information is wikipedia.org/wiki/Tata_Nano with some W's in the front. Or, just search Tata and Nano on Google.

Tata has the ability to do what it chooses. It is a $30,000,000,000 company that just bought Jaguar and Rover fron Ford. India has a very high level of technology, so design and manufacturing is not a problem. The interesting thing about the car is that it is designed to be serviced easily with minimal electronic equipment that many Indian kids can use if they have addended any school.

The mileage is only 50+ mpg in town with a low top speed, but it is perfect for the makets in terms of size, features, low pollution and price.

Like it or not, it is happening.
 
  #36  
Old 04-28-08, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by nap View Post
I like this one better although it gets 135 equivilant mpg.

http://www.teslamotors.com/
I REALLY LIKE THIS ONE!!!! What is the cost??
 
  #37  
Old 05-01-08, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Concretemasonry View Post
The dramatic rises are due to limited refining capacity/storage and speculation on crude prices.
Heard an analysis on NPR with some researchers who estimated the largest factors were not supply / demand (as stockpiles were at relatively high levels) but that a LARGE portion of the price increases were due to inverstors putting their money in commodity speculating, and of course the weakening of the dollar (which is happening for several reasons). Perhaps an oil price bubble that is about to burst? Oh yeah, and Exxon Mobil recorded the second-largest quarterly profit ever, earning $11B dollars in just three months.

BTW, Keep the gas tax - without it, the oil companies will just charge us more and we need the money to fix the roads badly. The gas tax hasn't changed since 1993, while the cost to fix roads has more than doubled.
 
  #38  
Old 05-02-08, 03:19 PM
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I JUST saw a news clip with some oil PR rep saying in effect 'oh, we show a large profit, but that doesn't show how much we invest in new wells, etc.'.

What, are we stupid? Every financial statement I know of considered profit what is left after ALL expenses (and that includes investments in new wells, etc), money in the bank to pay shareholders with.


I agree, keep the tax, it's a political shell game. Sure, it'll save you a few bucks per tank, but where does that revenue get made up at? Bills gotta be paid, highways and bridges need to be built and maintained.

Do you really think that if the tax was dropped tomorrow, the price you pay would drop by at least that amount? ha!
 
  #39  
Old 05-02-08, 03:33 PM
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I don't know how many of you remember the price freeze that Nixon instated but the tank of gas I bought in the week previous was around 25 cents per gallon. I had to fill up on sunday night - 35 cents per gallon and the next morning everyone found out at the same time that there was a price and wage freeze.......... but nobody knew ahead of time,ya, right
 
  #40  
Old 06-17-08, 12:51 PM
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Please!

Yeah let the govt keep the gas tax to fix the roads. Are we SO gullible that we believe the govt is fixing the roads with the gas tax. Oh yeah and the license plate TAX. It is just another rip off!! Another way to get more money out of your pocket and into the politicians and their friends. Did you know that when the "low" bidder on road construction "screws" up and runs out of money they just say they ran out and are given more money. What a pork barrel.


Of all the things I've lost I miss my naivete the most.
 
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