Taking down dividing wall between living room and kitchen
#1
09-29-05, 06:26 PM
Taking down dividing wall between living room and kitchen
I am puting in a new tile floor and want to take down the dividing wall between living room and the kitchen (see picture).
http://img298.imageshack.us/img298/6658/wall7nz.jpg
I would like to know what needs to be done if this is a load bearing wall. (support post in the basement directly below the wall suggests that it is)
The house is a raised ranch
The span is 14 feet
The span of the house from inside wall to inside wall is about 40 feet
http://img298.imageshack.us/img298/6658/wall7nz.jpg
I would like to know what needs to be done if this is a load bearing wall. (support post in the basement directly below the wall suggests that it is)
The house is a raised ranch
The span is 14 feet
The span of the house from inside wall to inside wall is about 40 feet
#3
09-30-05, 10:30 PM
The first step required for that major of a remodel is a permit!! THAT will provide you with all of the answers to the questions that you are asking.
You have left out far too much needed info for anybody here to provide an ACCURATE answer.
Is snow load an issue? If so, how much? What species of wood are you planning on using for the header? What loads are above the wall that need to be taken into concideration? Comp roof? Shake roof? Tile roof? Joists and rafters or trusses?
You have left out far too much needed info for anybody here to provide an ACCURATE answer.
Is snow load an issue? If so, how much? What species of wood are you planning on using for the header? What loads are above the wall that need to be taken into concideration? Comp roof? Shake roof? Tile roof? Joists and rafters or trusses?
#4
10-01-05, 07:35 AM
Probably why not responses...
Lefty hit it on the head.... I/we can't tell from the photo...
Overall, after getting the permit - and determining if it's load bearing (probably) - you'll have to support the load with a temporary bracing system while removing the old wall. Then you'll have to fabricate a header strong enough to support the load over the new span. Both these procedures would be better off left to a professional - if not for the actual work, at least for the design.
Nothing ruins your day like a sagging ceiling a month after your project is completed - except of course, being able to reach the kitchen coffeemaker from your upstairs bed when the second level falls to the first
(yeah, I know it's a ranch... but you get the idea)
Overall, after getting the permit - and determining if it's load bearing (probably) - you'll have to support the load with a temporary bracing system while removing the old wall. Then you'll have to fabricate a header strong enough to support the load over the new span. Both these procedures would be better off left to a professional - if not for the actual work, at least for the design.
Nothing ruins your day like a sagging ceiling a month after your project is completed - except of course, being able to reach the kitchen coffeemaker from your upstairs bed when the second level falls to the first
(yeah, I know it's a ranch... but you get the idea)
#6
10-06-05, 06:00 PM
Ok , I had a builder come down and he said to use two 14 foot 8 inch micro lams doubled up as a header.
I took the sheet rock off so I could see how well it was supported now and if his suggestion seemed adequate enough. By the looks of things it would seem that it is.
Can you please take a look at this picture of the current supports and give me your input on weather or not his suggestion was feasible?
http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/899/wall0tn.jpg
I took the sheet rock off so I could see how well it was supported now and if his suggestion seemed adequate enough. By the looks of things it would seem that it is.
Can you please take a look at this picture of the current supports and give me your input on weather or not his suggestion was feasible?
http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/899/wall0tn.jpg
#7
10-06-05, 07:29 PM
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rUfUnKy,
I am assuming that this has trusses.
I would say that 2-9 1/4 x 14' LVL's would take care of your project. Pending that we have propert support DIRECTLY UNDER the beam at each end. Install minimum 2 Jack studs under the LVL's for this application.
Hope this helps!
I am assuming that this has trusses.
I would say that 2-9 1/4 x 14' LVL's would take care of your project. Pending that we have propert support DIRECTLY UNDER the beam at each end. Install minimum 2 Jack studs under the LVL's for this application.
Hope this helps!
#8
10-06-05, 07:37 PM
Originally Posted by Doug Aleshire
rUfUnKy,
I am assuming that this has trusses.
I would say that 2-9 1/4 x 14' LVL's would take care of your project. Pending that we have propert support DIRECTLY UNDER the beam at each end. Install minimum 2 Jack studs under the LVL's for this application.
Hope this helps!
I am assuming that this has trusses.
I would say that 2-9 1/4 x 14' LVL's would take care of your project. Pending that we have propert support DIRECTLY UNDER the beam at each end. Install minimum 2 Jack studs under the LVL's for this application.
Hope this helps!
#9
10-06-05, 07:42 PM
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rUfUnKy,
If that is the case, then I recommend 2 - 11 7/8 x 14' LVL's. To far a span to carry roof/ceiling load. I am assuming that we have vertical supports for roof resting on middle or diagonal towards middle of home.
This would ensure a sound support.
Also, where is that Building permit for this?
Also a temp wall must be made on both sides of this to hold ceiling/roof up while inserting a new beam. This means work!
Hope this helps!
If that is the case, then I recommend 2 - 11 7/8 x 14' LVL's. To far a span to carry roof/ceiling load. I am assuming that we have vertical supports for roof resting on middle or diagonal towards middle of home.
This would ensure a sound support.
Also, where is that Building permit for this?
Also a temp wall must be made on both sides of this to hold ceiling/roof up while inserting a new beam. This means work!
Hope this helps!
#10
10-06-05, 07:54 PM
SOOOO..., if it's old enough that you have "hand-stacked" joists and rafters, rather than engineered trusses, THAT changes everything. If the house were built with trusses, they would be tail-bearing. Any interior wall that may occur between the 2 outside walls would mean nothing. But, with "hand-stacked" joists and rafters, they are probably relying on the interior wall to provide the necessary support.
I would err on the side of safety. Pretty sure that the LVL's that Doug is calling for will work WITHOUT a center support. If a wall just happens to occur to provide support, all the better!!
I would err on the side of safety. Pretty sure that the LVL's that Doug is calling for will work WITHOUT a center support. If a wall just happens to occur to provide support, all the better!!
#11
10-06-05, 08:10 PM
Originally Posted by Doug Aleshire
rUfUnKy,
If that is the case, then I recommend 2 - 11 7/8 x 14' LVL's. To far a span to carry roof/ceiling load. I am assuming that we have vertical supports for roof resting on middle or diagonal towards middle of home.
This would ensure a sound support.
Also, where is that Building permit for this?
Also a temp wall must be made on both sides of this to hold ceiling/roof up while inserting a new beam. This means work!
Hope this helps!
If that is the case, then I recommend 2 - 11 7/8 x 14' LVL's. To far a span to carry roof/ceiling load. I am assuming that we have vertical supports for roof resting on middle or diagonal towards middle of home.
This would ensure a sound support.
Also, where is that Building permit for this?
Also a temp wall must be made on both sides of this to hold ceiling/roof up while inserting a new beam. This means work!
Hope this helps!
when talking about supports "vertical or diagonal" are you talking about in the attic?? I don't believe there are any just rafters and floor joists.
I didn't get a permit yet because I was assuming it wasn't nesercary until I started tearing down the frame
.
#12
10-06-05, 08:13 PM
Originally Posted by lefty
SOOOO..., if it's old enough that you have "hand-stacked" joists and rafters, rather than engineered trusses, THAT changes everything. If the house were built with trusses, they would be tail-bearing. Any interior wall that may occur between the 2 outside walls would mean nothing. But, with "hand-stacked" joists and rafters, they are probably relying on the interior wall to provide the necessary support.
I would err on the side of safety. Pretty sure that the LVL's that Doug is calling for will work WITHOUT a center support. If a wall just happens to occur to provide support, all the better!!
I would err on the side of safety. Pretty sure that the LVL's that Doug is calling for will work WITHOUT a center support. If a wall just happens to occur to provide support, all the better!!
#13
10-06-05, 08:16 PM
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rUfUnKy,
You're welcome.
Yes, I was referring to the attic space.
Before going any further, obtain a permit. You will need drawings of what you are doing so they know what alterations and remedies you will be doing.
Don't do this without a permit. The issues that will be brought up if caught without one will be a price you do not want to pay.
Good Luck!
You're welcome.
Yes, I was referring to the attic space.
Before going any further, obtain a permit. You will need drawings of what you are doing so they know what alterations and remedies you will be doing.
Don't do this without a permit. The issues that will be brought up if caught without one will be a price you do not want to pay.
Good Luck!
#14
10-06-05, 08:35 PM
What Doug said in his last post -- GO GET A PERMIT!!!
This thing HAS to be inspected. The $30 or $50 or $150 that the permit may cost is NOTHING compared to the costs if it isn't.
This thing HAS to be inspected. The $30 or $50 or $150 that the permit may cost is NOTHING compared to the costs if it isn't.
#16
10-14-05, 07:33 AM
Similar situation
Don't mean to hijack a post but since the goal rUfUnky has is exactly the same as mine I wanted to ask a couple of questions.
I am also intending on removing the wall between the kitchen and living room. 40yr old house, two stories.
2 questions:
1. Who exactly do I hire to come in and evaluate what I need to do. ie. Contracter, Builder, Architect...I guess I am asking who to look for in the yellow pages.
2. I intend on getting this person to tell me how to do it, then getting a permit. If I follow these two steps will I still be allowed to do the work myself?
I know these seem like ignorant questions, but I come from a long family history of "do it yourself - electrical, plumbing, structural - but never get a permit or hire a pro". This means that while I may be able to do the work I am not familiar with the proper process.
Thanks!
I am also intending on removing the wall between the kitchen and living room. 40yr old house, two stories.
2 questions:
1. Who exactly do I hire to come in and evaluate what I need to do. ie. Contracter, Builder, Architect...I guess I am asking who to look for in the yellow pages.
2. I intend on getting this person to tell me how to do it, then getting a permit. If I follow these two steps will I still be allowed to do the work myself?
I know these seem like ignorant questions, but I come from a long family history of "do it yourself - electrical, plumbing, structural - but never get a permit or hire a pro".
This means that while I may be able to do the work I am not familiar with the proper process.Thanks!
#17
10-14-05, 07:45 AM
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RickDIII,
1. Who exactly do I hire to come in and evaluate what I need to do. ie. Contracter, Builder, Architect...I guess I am asking who to look for in the yellow pages.
I would suggest this, removal of a wall will require drawings - depending on the municpality, this may be a simple sketch or one done by a General Contractor/Bldg. Designer/Archictect. The issue is the total span and load this beam will carry. In some cases, a structural Engineer may have to be used. City needs to what size and type of beam you are using, point loads are critical. Be prepared to spend some money on this. So who to look for first - your choice. Whomever you choose for this can or will explain what you need to do. If you choose a Gen. Contractor to look at what you are doing, be up front with them. They do not like to waste their time.
Talk to your local lumber yard or the local building dept. for some names of those that can draw these up for you.
2. I intend on getting this person to tell me how to do it, then getting a permit. If I follow these two steps will I still be allowed to do the work myself?
You as a homewoner are allowed to pull a permit and in fact do the work. As long as you have plans approved to do exactly as what is dictated, you will have no problem.
Hope this helps!
1. Who exactly do I hire to come in and evaluate what I need to do. ie. Contracter, Builder, Architect...I guess I am asking who to look for in the yellow pages.
I would suggest this, removal of a wall will require drawings - depending on the municpality, this may be a simple sketch or one done by a General Contractor/Bldg. Designer/Archictect. The issue is the total span and load this beam will carry. In some cases, a structural Engineer may have to be used. City needs to what size and type of beam you are using, point loads are critical. Be prepared to spend some money on this. So who to look for first - your choice. Whomever you choose for this can or will explain what you need to do. If you choose a Gen. Contractor to look at what you are doing, be up front with them. They do not like to waste their time.
Talk to your local lumber yard or the local building dept. for some names of those that can draw these up for you.
2. I intend on getting this person to tell me how to do it, then getting a permit. If I follow these two steps will I still be allowed to do the work myself?
You as a homewoner are allowed to pull a permit and in fact do the work. As long as you have plans approved to do exactly as what is dictated, you will have no problem.
Hope this helps!
Last edited by Doug Aleshire; 10-14-05 at 11:29 AM.
#18
10-14-05, 08:58 AM
Little update, support beem is now in place.
I am looking for just the right Island or Breakfast Bar to divide the two rooms and pull them together at the same time (Suggestions are welcome).
Right now it looks kinda like a kitchen show room when sitting on my couch. I need somthing to fill the dead space.
Picture below.
http://img438.imageshack.us/img438/3...ll1copy9ru.jpg
I am looking for just the right Island or Breakfast Bar to divide the two rooms and pull them together at the same time (Suggestions are welcome).
Right now it looks kinda like a kitchen show room when sitting on my couch. I need somthing to fill the dead space.
Picture below.
http://img438.imageshack.us/img438/3...ll1copy9ru.jpg
#19
10-14-05, 11:26 AM
just wondering
rUfUnky,
Looking at doing the same exact thing in a set up that very closely resembles yours. We keep going back in forth between the island idea and keeping a pony wall in place so that we still have some room deliniation while making it appear more open.
Did you consider this approach, and if so, what were your deciding factors?
Thanks!
Looking at doing the same exact thing in a set up that very closely resembles yours. We keep going back in forth between the island idea and keeping a pony wall in place so that we still have some room deliniation while making it appear more open.
Did you consider this approach, and if so, what were your deciding factors?
Thanks!
#20
10-14-05, 12:02 PM
Originally Posted by RickDIII
rUfUnky,
Looking at doing the same exact thing in a set up that very closely resembles yours. We keep going back in forth between the island idea and keeping a pony wall in place so that we still have some room deliniation while making it appear more open.
Did you consider this approach, and if so, what were your deciding factors?
Thanks!
Looking at doing the same exact thing in a set up that very closely resembles yours. We keep going back in forth between the island idea and keeping a pony wall in place so that we still have some room deliniation while making it appear more open.
Did you consider this approach, and if so, what were your deciding factors?
Thanks!
!) They are a free standing unit making them more sturdy then a pony wall (unless you plan on putting in a support from the ceiling to the wall).
2) They can give you more cabinet space/storage a place to prepare food as well as a Breakfast bar on the opposite side.
3) They are more like a piece of furniture and there for add more character to the room.
I'm going to take a trip to my local cabinet shop and see what I can come up with.
I noticed you said your home is two stories.
If the second story is above this wall you might consider putting in the pony wall with supports from the ceiling to the wall.
Obviously you would have to find out what the proper support for your situation would be.
Last edited by rUfUnKy; 10-14-05 at 12:16 PM.
