Crack in concrete wall?

I am looking at possibly purchasing a house that has been owned by one owner. The house has a basement and three of the basement walls are the preformed concrete walls. The wall that has the garage (and what appears to be backfill of dirt) has a very long crack running diagnally is a major concern for me. I put a bid on the house with a kickout if I find anything I don't like with the house within 10 days...I can walk away from it. If they accept an offer, I will have it inspected...but even if there are no code issues I can walk away from it.

The wall is not underground (obviously) and I am not concerned about leaks but it does support that side of the house. How hard is this to repair?

Any other concerns that I should have about this?

Thanks.

 

It kind of depends on the kind of crack it is. Some cracks are ok. First of all it should be known that all concrete will have some cracks. There are drying cracks, stress cracks, or just bad concrete cracks. How wide is your crack ? Does it go through to the other side ? It it a narrow crack ? If you can let us know we can answer you better. Some cracks you can leave, some you can just fill, and then there are some that need to be repaired and lastly some cracks you just walk away from and let someone else worry about them. Let us know. Thanks

 

The crack is not that wide...but it is long and since there is fill dirt behind it and a garage pad above it, it would be real difficult to tell what's on the other side with involving a structural engineer.

When I told the agent about it, and mentioned the engineer he said that that means money...he has never been involved with a structural engineer that didn't deem it a problem. I was even going to have him write up a new contract stating that the seller pay for a structural engineer but when he mentioned that I decided to pull out and let it be someone else's problem.

It's different when you own the house and have the problem...I am a potential buyer and the existing owners who have been living there have not addressed the issue nor did they disclose it. What else did they not disclose? That's my point...

Just don't feel confortable about it.

My wife hates me now...and I have a month to find a new place to live....

 

If you really want the home, it may be worth a few hundred dollars to find out the cause and/or repairs. This would set everyone's mind at ease whether it was a good decision.

The realtor was just trying to run the sale through.

Get a structural engineer and not a home inspector. A good home inspector would refer you to an engineer anyway.

Cracks has to be sorted out. There are inactive (bad) and inactive(not necessarily bad and provide a history). Vertical cracks near the center of a wall are usually shrinkage cracks (common with concrete that was poured too wet). Horizontal cracks are usually structural, but not always. Diagonal cracks could be structural or relate to a soil/foundation settlement.

Poured basement walls are particularly difficult to repair, while block are more repairable.

An outside opinion will cost something, but it wiil give you confidence in your decision. If the home is not sold, you could always make another offer. If they don't want you to get an engineer's opinion, it indicates they may know something and do not want to disclose it to future possible purchasers.

Dick

 

Well...I already knew the agent was just trying run the sale through...that was a given. I haven't met many real estate agents I trust no matter how nice they seem.

I called the agent and he asked me if I wanted to cancel the contract...I told him yes.

I knew what to expect...I know they have had the house on the market for at least six months...he called me and told me that the homeowner said that the crack was there shortly after they purchased the house and they had a structural engineer come out and was told it was not an issue. So I said great...can I see the report? Then he told me that they didn't have one.

Of course we know that's BS....so...

I told them that if they want me to purchase the house that they need to burden the cost of a structural engineer and provide me a written report that back up the claims. I got home later that afternoon and was told that they are trying to get this done by Monday (I gave them until Monday 7 PM for the offer).

What kind of certifications should I be looking for to check out the engineer they will hire and what should I be looking for in the report once this is done. What is the worse case scenario and how can it be fixed?

Thanks for the help.

Bill

 

Bill:
If in fact the inspection was done by a Structural Engineer, the report will be signed by him as a Structural Engineer. It may even have his stamp on it. You don't have to worry about a Structural Engineer steering you wrong, or covering up something. He will give his report on what he found, no matter who is paying him. Their stamp is too important to play these kind of games. Just so you know, Structural Engineers are not easy to come by on short notice. You usually have to wait several days after contacting one of them. There are also not alot of them in any community, and they are always busy. I would say that since they are trying to get an Inspection, that they are probably being honest about it. If they were trying to hide something, they would not go to the cost for your transaction. My advice would be for you to just relax, and see how this plays out. Enjoy the trip. Remember, you can always get off the train. Don't make your wife made either. Have a good day.

 

If they cannot provide a report, you may feel more confident if you hire the engineer rather than the seller. The engineer has a responsibility to the person that hires him. There are always some gray areas and you can get it straight if you are paying the bill (even if the seller pays in the end). The dollars for a study are not great if you consider the possible cost of repairs and family battle.

As a registered engineer, I always had a responsibility to my client, especially to explain everything in gray areas.

Dick

 

Dick:
I am also an engineer, and I don't entirely disagree with you, however, if I write a written report and everyone gets a copy, it is like it is. I show no favoritism to either side, no matter who pays me. If I go against the guy who pays me, so be it. But I do give an honest inspection and report. In engineering I was taught that there are no gray areas. Only black and white. If it is not right, it is wrong. Just my view of things.

 

Thanks so much for the quick replies, guys....time is of the essence here.

I guess one of my main concerns is, if it is not a structurl issue, why did it crack? According to the agent, the homeownder claims that the crack has not spread...but why would I ever take their word for it?!

If it is due to settling...what is the best way to repair? RamJack? I don't want a bandaide fix...I would need something permanent to ensure no future failure will take place. I also plan on contacting the engineer that does the inspection and checking to see what kind of certs he has and check out the company.

What kind of certs should I be looking for?


Thanks again guys!

Bill

 

Just some thoughts here. If he has a structural engineer's license, he is certified. He may indeed be a civil engineer and thats ok, or a licensed archit. and thats ok. They may very well own their own company. In 35 years of construction, I have never checked up on an engineer. They went to school, they know their business. But, all this takes time. You only have about 30 days left don't you. I am getting the feeling, that you do not trust people. You don't trust the realtor, the seller or the engineer. Instead of thinking of ways to sidetrack this house, I would wait until you have all the information. This is not a perfect world, and there is not a perfect house. Fixing cracks in cement can be cheap, or it can be expensive. That is your decision. It just depends on how much you want to spend.
I have patched cracks in foundations for $50.00 up to $2500.
And, the $2500 crack could have been fixed for $50.00. Its up to the guy writing the check. Good Luck

 

Checking whether an engineer is registered is the key. The firm is not really important, since as Jack said, he may own the firm. This is especially true for engineers that do a great deal of residential work.

If you just want a report that tells you what to do or the reason for the crack, the written report (black and white) is all you need.

My note on "gray areas" referred to a better understanding of the problem since there are always degrees and a report should provide a clear conclusion. A printed report may contain terms or concepts that you or your wife do not understand or are not familiar. Since you pay the bill, you can always get a verbal description in non-engineering language. If someone else hires an engineer, the engineer is working for someone else and he will not give you the clarification you want.

Sometimes we engineers use too many technical terms without really understanding the client's background. The result is we need to be prompted to be more understanadable and a conversation is the best way to serve a client.

Dick

 

Jack / Dick,

Well...first off I am not afraid to get as technical as any engineer wants to get. I enjoy a challenge...just ask my previous builder and the health department when they ran into a few issues planning for my septic system (everything turned out fine there!)

As far as trust goes...I trust everyone until they do a few things I feel are untrustworthy...then I proceed with caution. I have had several deals go south due to shady real estate people...I know that doesn't mean all of them are untrustworthy...just need to be cautious. They are just trying to feed their families, and I understand that...I am just trying to protect mine...that's all. Believe me...if you could be a fly on the walls of both ends of any real estate deal...you would be amazed. By the way...I have several friends in that line of work.

I am not too concerned with the cost of fixing the crack itself...I am much more concerned with more serious problems and the costs associated with it.

I will wait to see what they do and proceed. I will keep you guys posted...I am sure there will be more questions...hope you don't mind.

Thanks so much for the advice guys....you both have been a big help!

Bill

 

Bill:

No we don't mind the questions. Good Luck. Oh by the way, I am not only a Civil Engineer, a Building Contractor, but I also hold a Real Estate Brokers License. I once had 121 real estate sales people working for me. Yes, I have seen both sides and been on both sides. In fact, my last house I sold, I hired another Realtor to sell it for me. I was not even going to attempt to sell it myself.

 

This was a really interesting thread regarding the suspicious crack in the concrete wall. How did it resolve itself? Was it structural ??

 

It is suspicious...they have yet to get an engineer...and the agent did not contact me...I had to call him.

I pretty much ended my buying agreement with the agent and moved on. I think that I never got the real story. The agent told me that they were quoted a price between 1000-1500 and that they only way that they would perform this is would be if I signed an agreement that if everything was ok, we would agree to purchase the house (a no brainer!). But...the agent never relayed this to me...so something was going on.

 

I have to agree with you. If they did not respond quickly to the situation, its time to walk away, and don't look back. Wanting you to sign off on it, says they were trying to hide something. Happy Hunting. Tell your wife we said you did right. Have a good day.

 

There is a chance that they had an engineer and did not want to tell anyone they had a bad report. If it could be shown there was an opinion, they would have to disclose it to all future buyers.

Since they would have hired the engineer, they would mown the report and could do what they want. The engineer would be allowed to reveal the results to anyone except his client.

A good case for you to hire an engineer so you get the information and control things.

Dick

 

Well...this was really bugging me....so I did something only an anul retentive person would do...called the homeowner to discuss the previous 2 weeks.

After speaking with the homeowner...sounds like the agents told her that we were not that serious since our offer was too low and since we pulled the offer (which I did at first...but then the agent told me that the owner was researching hiring an engineer...and the saga began) so they couldn't counter.

To make a long story short...I feel much better about the crack...I don't think they were trying to hide anything and that we may make a more agressive offer very soon. Of course...I will have an engineer look at it. She even had a home inspection done and he didn't have an issue with the crack...basically called it a stress crack.

We agreed that we felt the agents were not very responsive to either of us...and left it that we may make an offer soon if things don't pan out with another house we just put a bid on. I did share with her a contact for a structural engineer that should be more reasonable if she feels the need to get one done to avoid things of this nature even if we don't make an offer in the near future.

We left things off at a good note...we mutually agreed that we were glad we spoke with one another and wished each other the best of luck.

All hope is not lost though...I am pretty sure that by 5:00 our offer on a different house will be countered or rejected and we can still make a move on the house we originally wanted.

Man...I can't wait until all this is over...this is driving me and my wife crazy (I am probably driving my wife up the wall at this point!)


Wish me luck!

Thanks guys...

Bill