3 season room addition

Reply

  #1  
Old 07-22-14, 07:55 PM
P
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 11
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
3 season room addition

Hello,

I'm sure this subject has been covert already a few times, but I can't seem to get a straight answer.

We are planning to add a 3 season room to our existing house. The main challenge is the roof. I don't know how to finish the singles to the house. I know I could cut the siding and flash underneath the existing siding but it seems over the board for a simple 3 season room. Now In the picture I have included I see a corner trim, how is it sealed with the siding?

Name:  screenedporch.jpg
Views: 24502
Size:  50.8 KBName:  3_Room_02.jpg
Views: 3104
Size:  27.7 KB

Thanks for the help and guidance.

Phil
 
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 07-22-14, 09:11 PM
XSleeper's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 26,191
Received 712 Votes on 659 Posts
It's not surprising if you can't get a straight answer... we can't give specific advice based on a picture of someone elses' house... we don't know what kind of siding your house has... nor what kind of roof your 3 season room will have.

On most houses, there is only one way to do it correctly, and that is to cut the siding (unknown material at this point) and flash the new roof to the existing wall using metal flashing that is designed to work into your roofing material. (which is also unknown at this point)

The trim you see in the picture is j-channel, which is used on vinyl siding. It does not "seal" the siding- or the roof- in any way, shape or form. it simply covers the cut edge of the siding. And it is not sealed to the roof. FLASHING is what seals penetrations and prevents them from leaking.
 
  #3  
Old 07-23-14, 06:00 AM
P
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 11
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Sorry if I missed out a few details. My house exterior finish is LP Canexel, some sort of composite board which we want to use on the addition but also have some sort of wood post for the sides that would run alongside the existing part of the house.

The roof would be asphalt shingles.

Thanks
Phil
 
  #4  
Old 07-23-14, 07:00 AM
XSleeper's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 26,191
Received 712 Votes on 659 Posts
The best way would be to cut the siding and install step flashing individually above each shingle. The bottom course would need a kickout flashing (google pics). It's best if siding is kept a minimum of 1" above the finished roof deck, so that means the siding would be cut at least 2 1/2" above the framing line to account for the thickness of your roof sheathing and your shingles.

http://www.lpcorp.com/Resources/Lite...tions_English/

I hope the bottom CAD drawing you made does not accurately represent your roof, since the flat portion of roof simply will not work.
 
  #5  
Old 07-23-14, 08:42 AM
P
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 11
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Thanks for the tips.

Now do you know if I can cut directly into the siding and slide in the flashing or should I remove the entire canexel from the side of house?

Also regarding the flat roof. That was going be my second topic. With the roof type, there are two different directions of trusts. I don't want to modify the current sheeting of the house. So I was going to build a flat roof for the door section with a slight drip angle, the angle is limited because of the spacing I have left above the sliding door.

Here is the picture of the house untouched. What would you suggest?

Name:  IMG_20140723_113350.jpg
Views: 2416
Size:  31.7 KBName:  IMG_20140723_113419.jpg
Views: 2457
Size:  33.8 KB

Once again thanks a lot for your help.
 
  #6  
Old 07-23-14, 11:17 AM
XSleeper's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 26,191
Received 712 Votes on 659 Posts
Well, by saying you don't want to modify the existing roof sheathing, you're kind of tying our hands. I think you're asking for trouble wanting to frame it the way you have it drawn. Flat roofs are nothing but trouble, especially in climates with ice and snow, and that's even when you know a good EPDM roofer.

This is not a good solution, but it's the only one you leave us with... build the 3 season room with 2 gable ends, similar to the roof style on the existing part of your house. The one on the left as you have it drawn, and the one on the right would be a gable end just like the one in the right side of the picture, but smaller, to simply cover the 3 season room. This would create a horizontal valley between the 2 roofs (where the gutter above your patio door is) which would need a cricket of some type built so as to drain the water coming down the main diagonal valley on the house out to the right side. I imagine that if you are anywhere that gets snow, this would create a huge ice dam in the wintertime, and the potential for problems.

As for the siding, I would think that once you've framed the addition and installed the sheathing, you would then be able to snap a chalk line on the siding and cut it with a skilsaw that's set to the depth of the siding. You'd then be able to slip the flashing up underneath the siding and maybe only have to pull a nail here or there to pop the siding loose.
 
  #7  
Old 07-23-14, 01:50 PM
P
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 11
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Once again thanks a lot.

You are correct in every way. I don't really want to build a flat roof. So we looked at it again and we might build a corridor that leads from the sliding door to the 3 season room with a gable roof. The corridor would be narrow enough so the roof would have a proper slope to it.

Like you said we live in a part of Canada N-B, that has a lot of snow during the winter season.

Now hopefully this is my last question.

In regards with the screenedporch picture, how do I tie in the stud to the house (the one on the left side of the picture that touches the siding)? I want to stain the wood but from what I have seen you have to cap it with aluminum and lay it underneath of the siding to seal it properly. Or do I only use a J-trim?

Thanks
Phil
 
  #8  
Old 07-23-14, 04:16 PM
XSleeper's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 26,191
Received 712 Votes on 659 Posts
J-channel is only used with vinyl siding.

I don't know what you're using for framing, or if you're trimming the framing with cedar or what... but you would probably make a nice plumb finish cut on the siding using the saw set to the depth of the siding as described before. (make a guide for the saw by laying a 1x6 plumb on the siding, tack it onto the side you are removing, and then run the saw on top of that.) You'd want to get some housewrap behind that cut edge, because you will surely score the WRB behind your siding. Then you'd apply the framing to the sheathing, maybe using construction adhesive and screws, assuming you don't have a stud to hit. If you're going to trim your framing with 1x4 cedar (or similar), I'd leave enough space for the cedar to slip between the framing and the cut you made in the siding and then caulk it after it's been stained, using either a woodtone caulk that matches your stain or something colored (like Vulkem 116 or OSI Quad) to match your siding.
 
  #9  
Old 07-24-14, 12:35 PM
P
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 11
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Hello XSleeper,

I made changes to the drawing. I went with some of your suggestions.

Now I came up with a pitch of 3.63 (run of 49" x rise of 15").

What is your though on this?

This design in my opinion is the best without disturbing the current house. I will flash the roofing properly underneath the existing siding and cut the siding to fit the studs with caulking.

Name:  3_Season_Room_02.jpg
Views: 4463
Size:  34.2 KB


Now another question. The current deck is sitting on builder block (4x4 post). There is no ledger only a free standing deck.

Should I attach a new ledger to the house and pour 12" round concrete tubes into the earth with 4x4 post holder? Or can I reuse what is currently there?


I'm assuming I need to have a ledger and new concrete post...

Thanks
Phil
 
  #10  
Old 07-24-14, 05:58 PM
XSleeper's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 26,191
Received 712 Votes on 659 Posts
I like that a lot better... you're getting good at your CAD drawings! But I'd suggest you line up the roof above the door with the existing roof, since you will need that extra height to get some width on that little entryway. I think that the way it's drawn, that screen door is probably about 72" tall.

As for the footings (below frost) and posts I would suggest 6x6, not 4x4 at all. And sonotubes would be needed at all 3 of the front corners of the room, possibly even on the inside corner, depending how it's framed.

If you can do sonotubes at the rear, that's often preferable, but if it's easier to bolt the ledger to the existing foundation, that's acceptable too... just be sure you do it correctly. I'm not up on Canadian codes for that.
 
  #11  
Old 07-25-14, 06:28 AM
P
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 11
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Haha thanks!

The height below the door is 110 5/6", and the screen door is a 80"x34".

I know the entry room is a little small on the width. But I'm worried about how I can have both roof lining up and how I would have to structured properly. Should it be frame beside it or just freestanding?
 
  #12  
Old 07-25-14, 06:53 AM
XSleeper's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 26,191
Received 712 Votes on 659 Posts
Lining up the roof would be pretty simple. Remove the gutter (obviously) and attach a ledger to the existing fascia and/or rafter tails. (or removed the fascia and sister onto the existing rafters) The top of your ledger and/or rafters will be lined up so that once you put the sheathing on, it will be inline with the existing sheathing plane and pitch. Of course if that roof pitch doesn't give you enough width on the room you might just want to switch to a more shallow pitch.

Trying to frame the roof up underneath the existing soffit and roof would be pretty difficult since you can't swing a hammer in the tiny space you'd be creating between the new roof and the old soffit.

I'm not quite sure I understand your question about framing beside it/freestanding. Everything you do will be physically attached to the framing of the house, and it will be supported by piers and beams below frost.
 
  #13  
Old 07-27-14, 06:02 PM
P
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 11
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Hello Again,

I finally dig the holes for the concrete tubes. Should I use 6x6 post by 4 feet high to support the porch frame with saddles or poor the concrete higher so the porch would sit directly on the concrete, that way the concrete would extend from the ground 4 feet high? I know I have to protect the wood from moisture from the concrete.

Thanks
Phil
 
  #14  
Old 07-27-14, 06:30 PM
XSleeper's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 26,191
Received 712 Votes on 659 Posts
I really can't give specifics because I have no idea how your deck is framed. I'm assuming the deck itself (which you said was free standing) is on piers that are below frost. The idea behind my suggesting the piers beneath the corners of the room was so that regardless of how the deck is framed, you would be able to "connect the dots" so to speak, adding beams from pier to pier and blocking as needed underneath the deck to transfer the additional wall and roof load (that you will be adding) to the ground. I can't say what the best way to do that is. But I would imagine you will need to leave room underneath the deck framing for both the beam and at least a short 6x6 that can be cut to the correct length needed based on the finished height of your piers, and will sit in a saddle (probably an adjustable post base).

I don't think it will benefit you to make the piers too high. I would imagine that if they are within 60cm / 24" of the bottom of your existing deck joists, that would be close enough. That would allow space for 4x12 beams to be bolted to 6x6's that are approximately 60cm / 2' long.
 
  #15  
Old 07-27-14, 06:34 PM
P
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 11
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Yes but is it acceptable to only have the concrete post and not the short 6x6 wood post?

That way the frame would sit directly on the concrete post. Because the person that is handing me a hand to build this wants to have the concrete post way up in the air to support the frame directly without the use of a 6x6 wood post.


When I look at picture on google I don't see that done anywhere...
 
  #16  
Old 07-27-14, 06:40 PM
XSleeper's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 26,191
Received 712 Votes on 659 Posts
Like I said, I can't say how the deck is framed. My concern is that your load bearing walls that carry the roof load can't be on a single deck joist... can't be between joists, etc. You need to figure out where the beams need to go because I can't see that or describe it very well without a drawing of the deck framing and the location of the walls and new piers.

Your deck was built to be a deck, not to have the added load points of your room and roof on top. So that's the point of the piers and beams.
 
  #17  
Old 07-27-14, 08:55 PM
P
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 11
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Okay, here is a drawing of the frame we had in mind.

Name:  3_Season_Room_10.jpg
Views: 7261
Size:  39.2 KB

The lower part is made out of double 2x8 surrounding the perimeter of the construction, and the upper section for the floor frame will be single 2x8.

The ledge board will be 2x8 or 2x6 triple to offset it from the exterior house finish.
 
  #18  
Old 07-28-14, 06:11 AM
XSleeper's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 26,191
Received 712 Votes on 659 Posts
So you are tearing down the existing deck and building new? Then bringing the piers up to the correct grade (bottom of framing) is fine... hope your piers will contain rebar. I don't see that you've mentioned any measurements, so we don't know what the spans are. Just guessing, but your 2x8s are too small, you probably have most of them overspanned. (you should probably consult a span table for your wood species/area) Plus the entire edge of your drawing should be doubled, including the interior portion of the outside edge that returns to the ledger. Tripling the ledger may not be a good idea if it's being lagged to the house. You'd probably be better off with a single ledger, and simply add blocking between the joists after they are set into their hangers.

See this guide: http://www.adventuregraphics.net/books/build_a_deck.pdf
 
  #19  
Old 07-28-14, 05:08 PM
P
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 11
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Ah good,

I made the changes, they will be double 2x10 for the beams, and the joist will also be 2x10 and doubled at the perimeter.

We also added another concrete tube in the middle far side to be correct for the beam span.

Now, I can't seem to find any concrete saddles for putting to 2x10 in it. All I can find are the 4x4 post hangers. And it's too wide. Unless I bent it but does not seems right.

Thanks
Phil
 
  #20  
Old 07-28-14, 06:51 PM
XSleeper's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 26,191
Received 712 Votes on 659 Posts
It's sounding better all the time! Instead of a "saddle", I'd suggest you use a Simpson HD5A instead (through bolted to the beam), connected to the piers with SSTB anchor bolts set into the (wet cement) piers along the inside perimeters of all the beams. (SSTB turned so as to angle and embed into the center of the pier below grade, but so the bolt stem is sticking up in the correct location so as to attach the HD5A) Those type of holddowns are also required in the USA where the beams meet the ledger as a "lateral load tension device". Don't know about the Great White North...
 
  #21  
Old 07-28-14, 07:31 PM
P
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 11
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
I looked and there requirements for the beam support needs to resist to an uplift of x amount of force.

Now I looked locally and I don't seem to be able to find those kind of anchor bolt nor that HD5A bracket. I took the time too put a little bit of time to read about them and they sure sound better then those saddles. But I want to pour the concrete tomorrow.

Once again thanks

Oh and btw we are not that far up North!

Name:  3_Season_Room_09.jpg
Views: 2274
Size:  36.4 KBName:  3_Season_Room_11.jpg
Views: 2364
Size:  35.2 KB
 
  #22  
Old 07-28-14, 07:47 PM
XSleeper's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 26,191
Received 712 Votes on 659 Posts
Ave ultimate SSTB16 = 13640
Ave ultimate HD5A = 20767

You should be able to find something similar locally. Even if you have to use a L-bolt. Get long ones!
 
Reply
Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
 
Ask a Question
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: