use of pressure treated bottom plates etc


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Old 02-02-03, 05:03 PM
john wer
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use of pressure treated bottom plates etc

is the use of pressure treated wood for bottom plates/wood in contact with concrete etc now in a nationwide code requirement? my copy of CABO only seem to require it in areas where there is a significant decay probability. i have seen posts here where it was not required by a poster's local code as well.has this changed? in general it does seem like a really good idea regardless
 
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Old 02-03-03, 01:56 PM
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plates

Code here calls for it thats for sure. If the wood will touch the concrete walls or floor it has to be green wood ED
 
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Old 02-03-03, 03:19 PM
john wer
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yes of course since florida is an area with high decay probability
 
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Old 02-03-03, 04:28 PM
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green wood

We do the same up in Missouri . Thats where I build homes. Just down here cause its cold up there and snow ED
 
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Old 02-07-03, 10:12 PM
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Along the same subject. Are you saying that if I use 1x2 furring strips attached to my basement walls to support drywall, that they have to/should be treated? I recently just put up about a 12' section of 1x2", 3/4" foam insulation & 1/2" drywall. An I gonna regret that?

P.S. - Yo mods!! WTH is up with the coding? I can't get 'color text' & images to show up.
 
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Old 02-08-03, 04:12 AM
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Bluestraw,

With regards to going to regret it, is based upon what your basement wall condition is. I personally avoid attaching untreated wood to any concrete/masonry surface due to condensation or any slight evidence of moisture problems.

Others may say what they want but Code says that any wood in contact with concrete/masonry should be wood treated. Good reasons for this and one is mold. Untreated wood will decay rapidly and any moisture that cannot dry out due to lack of ventilation will eventually cause problems.

I have attached a link to what DIY suggests for furring basement walls and they point first to ensuring moisture issues are solved. What it fails to point out is Code requirements and if you apply furr strips with nails, any fractures that may occur in the block, visible or not may start to leak moisture into the basement. Basically, using a ramset to anchor your furring strips defeats any waterproofing that may had been done since you are destroying the protective covering over the walls. It is highly recommended to build traditional walls with a space of approx. 1" between the wood and concrete surface for ventilation. Use R11/13 unfaced or faced insulation, use poly ove the unfaced, then apply drywall. All the while a W/T bottom plate should be used. This avoid mold/mildew issues and creates a method to allow for moisture to dry if present. The other issues are the electrical boxes used, shallow boxes are difficult to wire and any future thoughts of hanging bookshelves on a wall may not be as secure as desired.

http://doityourself.com/basement/insbasefoam.htm

Hope this helps!
 
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Old 02-08-03, 07:35 AM
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Green wood

What can I say, code is code but we use green wood if it hits the concrete even if code dont call for it. Also thats like if we have a walk out basement. We run a drain pipe around the out side of the walls on the footing per code. But then we run another drain pipe along the footing on the inside of the basement to the out side. Code dont call for this . But we sure have a dry basement all of the time. Like Doug said we only use 2"x4" on the walls there so we have room for elec.boxs and wire and we dont have to put a hole in the concrete.Down here in FL they dont have a thing like a basement, it would pop up out of the ground. So the green wood 1x they use here get nailed to the block walls are all up out of the ground ED
 
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Old 02-08-03, 04:56 PM
john wer
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doug can you point me to the Code

section that requires PT in all areas of the country. as i have stated previously my 1995 CABO only seems to require it in areas where the decay probability is slight to moderate or above to quote
" section 322.1 Protection against decay"(page 23)

322.1 location required: In areas subject to decay damage as established by table 301.2a( ithink the a is a typo and actually refers to table 301.2g -decay probability map) (which shows northern new england and the vast majority of the northern and western states as having none to slight decay probability)
- and then goes on to list bottom plates etc. as you advise


is there an updated code reference that is different from the above that is now in effect that you use? as i have said prev it seems like it makes sense to use PT in these situations regardless. thanks john
 
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Old 02-08-03, 05:19 PM
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john wer,

I am not sure why you are asking this? This seems like a long thread for an issue just on wood treated stock that is in contact with concrete/masonry.

You have gotten answers from everyone here, you have looked it up in a 1995 CABO book and what I gave you is from the 2000 International Residential Code printed last year which incorporates BOCA, SBCCI, ICBO.

Section R323.1 - This covers use of wood treat lumber and it is done so with regards to decay. It indicates that W/T furring strips to basement walls and bottom plates within basements shall be used.

This is one area that really needs to be addressed. Furring strips...that in all the articles that are available on attaching furring strips to concrete block walls, that it is not per code to attach standard wood unless an approved vapor barrier is installed. Perforation of a vapor barrier would require W/T stock to avoid decay.

It may be advisable to contact your local building official as to what they require. Why haven't you done this yet?

Hope this helped and let us know what you found out!
 
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Old 02-08-03, 06:15 PM
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John wer: You asked if PT lumber was code and needed and we told you yes. You keep arguing with us. Just remember, if you don't want to hear the answer, don't ask the question. I think your trying to save a dime. If you are, go ahead and don't put PT lumber against the concrete. Its your house not ours. We gave you the right answer.
 
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Old 02-08-03, 07:49 PM
john wer
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thanks for the reply and help, i am sorry if my questions

were interpreted as being argumentative i was merely trying to clarify that the requirement had been updated from my CABO reference to the 2000 residential code(which i don't have a copy of). there must be other changes as well, do you have a link to where i i can get a copy of the 2000? thanks john
 
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Old 02-08-03, 08:01 PM
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john wer,

I acquired mine through the State of Michigan - Department of Consumer and Industry Services. Check within your state web site and see if their bookstore has it available or contact your local building official, they may have a direct telephone number.

Hope this helps!
 
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Old 02-09-03, 05:10 AM
Torrisic
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I'm in the same situation as John, however I just finished putting up the entire perimeter of my basement with NON pressure-treated 2x2 furring strips - now ready for 1 1/2" polystryrene (R-7.5). After reading the replies, I'm now considering taking them all down and starting over - big job of course.

QUESTION - won't this potentially cause more problems since I need to use a nail gun again and penetrate the poured concrete walls?

QUESTION - should I decide to leave it up as-is, I'm now considering putting up the poly and then the dry wall (without a vapor barrier). Wouldn't this allow air to infiltrate behind the wall to get rid of some moisture (due to temperature differential)?

Thanks
 
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Old 02-09-03, 07:01 AM
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Torrisic,

Unfortunately, what you have done as well as many others is make a "big mistake". I can't change what is written in the Code but only you can change what you have done. If you don't have any moisture issues, you could gamble on everything staying dry but you need that vapor barrier over the 2x to protect the drywall backing. Hence the dilema on how one does their basements, you either do it the right way or suffer the consequences.


1. You are not suppose to penetrate the masonry/concrete walls with nails if you have applied a waterproofing sealer - it just discredits the purpose of the sealer - in essence you wasted money if you applied a sealer and then perforate the protection it was to have provided.

2. If you read what I have attached below, you are right. Unfortunately, you need a vapor barrier so it will not damage the drywall but in doing so it will damage the standard 2x stock because no air space is provided to help dry any moisture that would get behind it.

It is suggested that a 1" space be between the wall and the wood frame.The reason to keep the wood out from the walls is the moisture that could damage them. If you want to increase the R value from R13 to R-19, within a 2x4 frame, move the wall out further or use the R-13 and then apply a rigid insulation over the studs (warm side) then drywall *Code advises a 15 minute fire rated material over any rigid insulation - 1/2" Drywall*

Kraft faced insulation is fine to use in the above scenario. No need for the poly and you can do everything easily. You may find this easier and I would do this versus unfaced and vapor barrier because I don't like to play with it any more than I have to.

Let me add one other thing, rigid insulation used on a concrete/masonry surface is fine. Considerations to make in using this is;

(Most books, articles about rigid and furring strips fail to say anything about the failure to use W/T stock for vertical surface applications and this will get destroyed and be a good source for mold/mildew with the slightest hint of moisture) They also fail to say that any type of mechanical fasteners used over a sealed masonry surface will void all hopes of proper waterproofing, as it was intended to do.

Alternative which does add cost is to apply full rigid sheets to the concrete/masonry walls, adhesively applied, then place frame wall against the rigid, then insulate between studs and cover with drywall. The rigid does then act as a vapor barrier. Do not tape/seal the seams. This allows it to breath and dry up any condensation that may form.

Hope this helps!
 
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Old 02-14-03, 04:30 PM
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hi,

well i am new to this basement and sorry if my questions are basic.
still would appreciate a reply.

this basement has had furring strips attached somehow to the concrete blocks then dry wall.

my guess is that im going to have to demo everything as it is and start over.

the question is, 2x4 framing the route you think is best?
or
fill all the holes that are probably in the foundation now and do 2x3 framing?

i have read the posts in this thread and it would seem that you like the 2x4 framing, with the 1'' gap.

what would you suggest for filling the holes in the block foundation?
 
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Old 02-14-03, 04:57 PM
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leewaytoo,

The holes could be filled with anything, caulk or mortar mix. Then apply a waterproofing sealer over it all if you have any moisture issues. It's your choice but I would suggest sealing your walls before investing all the time and money into materials for your basement.

Hope this helps!
 
 

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