Putting up basement wall.


  #1  
Old 03-15-03, 06:35 AM
gartie
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Putting up basement wall.

Hello all,

I would like to put up a basement wall (I have never attempted this before). I have an unfinished basement wall. Cinder block painted white, with a drop ceiling (about 25 years old). Could you please tell me how I would go about doing this. I was told to build the frame on the floor with 2 x 4's and then raise it. Would it make a difference if I used 2 x 3's? Would it be possible to build it in sections. Top part then bottom part then put the studs in. Any help would be appreciated. Also, I think I have all of the tools 1) saw
2) nails
3) hammer
4) screwdrivers

Thanks,

Gary
 
  #2  
Old 03-15-03, 08:28 AM
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Gary,

I guess this is the best and most economical way to construct walls that would be placed on the exterior. I prefer to see 2x4 but as mentioned by others they can get 2x3's. You still need that W/T plate. Doing the framing 16" O.C. provides a solid base for your 1/2" drywall. If using traditional framing method, frame your new wall 1" from the vertical block/masonry surface if using R-13. The reason to keep the wood out from the walls is the moisture that could damage them. If using insulation like R-19 and only 2x4 studs, the insulation would touch the walls. I have stated before that if a homeowner did put thicker insulation in, and the wall was only 1" from the masonry surface, I have recommended hanging a vapor barrier between the back of the wall and masonry surface. This doesn't allow for the insulation to touch the wall and air movement is not restricted but at least you won't create damage to the insulation or wood. ***It is important if you hang poly behind, that you make slices in it where the grade level is. this is for weeping*** If you do want to increase the R value, move the wall out further or use the R-13 and then apply a rigid insulation over the studs (warm side) then drywall (not paneling) *Code advises a 15 minute fire rated material over any rigid insulation - 1/2" Drywall*..

Kraft Faced insulation is fine to use in the above scenario. No need for the poly and you can do everything easily. You may find this easier and I would do this versus unfaced and vapor barrier because I don't like to play with it any more than I have to.

"W/T is wood treated. International Residential Building Code says "it must be used whenever wood is in contact with concrete and/or masonry". Check it out with your local inspector. This would also include furring strips applied directly to a vertical block wall unless you use the vapor barrier behind it. "

Hope ths helps!
 
  #3  
Old 03-15-03, 08:34 AM
J
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You can build the walls on the floor and stand them up. Make sure you build the wall 1/4 inch short or you won't be able to stand it up. You can then use shims between the top plate and the joists.

Alternatively, you can install the top and bottom plates and toenail the studs between.

Don't use 2x3s. A 2x4 wall will be so much stronger and straigther, and leave room for electrical boxes and insulation.

Whichever method you choose, make sure the wall is plumb. I find a plumb bob a lot more accurate than a level (but slower).
 
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Old 03-17-03, 01:16 PM
mreloc
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Uh-oh!

Looks like I discovered this site a little late... according to Doug it looks like I've just finished framing my walls all wrong- please let me know how bad my situation is! Here goes- my house is 4 years old, poured basement walls, very dry. Basement floor is 4" concrete over visquene and painted with epoxy... bad news is I didn't use pressure treated 2x4's for the plate on the floor. Instead of securing the plates to the floor with nails, I elected to use Liquid Nails as an adhesive. Also, I framed pretty much against the wall and am planning to install R-13 kraft-faced vapor barrier finished with 1/2" drywall.
Am I headed for trouble?
Thanks
 
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Old 03-17-03, 02:08 PM
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mreloc,

Sorry to say....Yep!

First, where you live is critical to what I have written in the past. But since you are descibing what you are doing, I am sure that what I have written will be or should be required for your area.

If you are a gambler, you could leave things as they are. Insulation directly against the wall will act as a leech, where the temp difference will cause some moisture issues. Once the moisture is gets to your insulation it will get to your untreated lumber. To top it off, no ventilation to dry this out will be a breeding ground for mildew and eventually mold.

Any questions, e-mail me.
 
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Old 03-17-03, 03:35 PM
mreloc
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How about I put some plastic behind the studs next to the concrete? I think I may have enough clearance to do that. I could slit it between the studs for aiflow. What do you think? By the way, I live in Saline, MI- didn't realize you were so close... Thanks
 
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Old 03-17-03, 04:45 PM
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mreloc,

You could try, might be time consuming. BUT what about the bottom plate? If you think it will be all right, go for it but I bet you have some wood touching concrete somewhere?

If you want, e-mail me and let me know where you live with number. I'm always traveling around when I'm not here!

Hope this helps!
 
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Old 03-18-03, 10:43 AM
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I am in the process of finishing my basement and want to ensure that my planned wall construction plan is correct, and this seemed a good place to ask.

I am planning on building the wall of wood 2x4's with a pressure treated bottom plate. The wall will be 1" away from the basement block wall. I will insulate with R-13 in the stud cavities and then apply a vapor barrier and finish with 1/2" sheetrock.

I am confused by some suggestions I have seen on the board calling for a second vapour barrier between the basement block wall and the back of the stud wall. It was not part of my plan and was wondering what the purpose of it is? What am I not understanding?

I have also seen stud walls constucted with staggered horizontal blocking between the studs, for lateral support I suppose (not used for plumbing support or anything in the construction I've seen). Just wondering when it is recommended to use this blocking as I was not planning on it. I am guessing it is generally used in load bearing walls, but none of the walls I will be constructing will be load bearing (plus it is would be an annoyance factor in the insulating process) so I was not planning on any blocking. Am I missing something?

Thanks for any comments and suggestions.
 
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Old 03-18-03, 11:15 AM
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PenguinDave,

With what you wrote, "I am confused by some suggestions I have seen on the board calling for a second vapour barrier between the basement block wall and the back of the stud wall. It was not part of my plan and was wondering what the purpose of it is? What am I not understanding?" Let me help you out here...what you might have read was referring to the code requirement in Minnesota. Some other states may require the same but it is written as this:

"A 4 mill poly vapor barrier must be placed against all concrete or block exterior foundation walls prior to applying furring strips for full height of the wall. Another 4 mill poly vapor barrier must be placed over furring strips and insulation prior to covering with finish materials. (State Energy Code Requirement)" - MINNESOTA CODE ***It is important to make slices at grade level only in the poly for weeping***.

The reason to keep the wood out from the walls is the moisture that could damage them. If using insulation like R-19 and only 2x4 studs, the insulation would touch the walls. ***I have stated before that if a homeowner did put thicker insulation in, and the wall was only 1" from the masonry surface, I have recommended hanging a vapor barrier between the back of the wall and masonry surface*** This doesn't allow for the insulation to touch the wall and air movement is not restricted but at least you won't create damage to the insulation or wood. If you do want to increase the R value, move the wall out further or use the R-13 and then apply a rigid insulation over the studs (warm side) then drywall (not paneling) *Code advises a 15 minute fire rated material over any rigid insulation - 1/2" Drywall*..

Horizontal blocking is not required if walls are below 10" in height. Used for firestopping.

hope this helps!
 
  #10  
Old 03-18-03, 02:19 PM
A
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Question

Does Kraft R-13 batt insulation have build-in vapor barrier? No horizontal ceiling stud or vertical studs?

Must only horizontal floor studs be pressure treated? Is it applied only to the frame along basement perimeter and not for internal walls frame that have no insulation?
 
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Old 03-18-03, 03:20 PM
J
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The Kraft paper is indeed a vapor barrier. Not as good as the plastic sheeting, but good enough for many applications anyway.

All wood in contact with concrete must be pressure treated.
 
  #12  
Old 04-18-03, 07:15 PM
gartie
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hi all,

I still havent started my project. seems i got side-lined. i was told to use 2 and 5/8 steel to frame out my wall. is this a good choice? I am getting more confused.

thanks.
 
  #13  
Old 04-18-03, 09:46 PM
bungalow jeff
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I don't recommend steel studs for DIY'ers unfamiliar with it. Wood is much more forgiving and you do not need special edge protectors for wiring, etc.
 
 

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