permits

The first question is: When finishing a basement is a permit always needed?

and the second is where can I get one?

 

tom22007,

Make a call to your local building officials office - City Hall

In almost all cases, permits are required and there are guidelines as to what is required based upon what you are constructing there, like bedrooms - egress windows, heating, electrical included smoke detectors, bathrooms, etc.

Good Luck!

 

I know I should contact the local office anyways, but if I am just doing some remodeling of a previously finished basement, not finishing a previously unfinished basement would I still usually have to get a permit.

 

unique3,

Simple answer, yes. Make the call. I'd rather tell you to be safe than sorry.

Good Luck!

 

If you are just remodelling I would think the answer to be no.In most areas I,d hate to say,they aren,t as interested in safety but looking for a way to increase your taxes after you take out a permit and make improvements

 

sider68,

In the US, we have laws and these laws are supposed to be followed by law abiding citizens. Suggesting any violation of the law within this Forum is against policies and against good common sense. Giving such a response is not in the best interest of any Forum member and any member even thinking about accepting the suggestion is simply asking for trouble.

The term "Remodeling" seems to have different meanings. If I ask a homeowner the question, they tell me 100 % of the story. If they call City Hall they tell 50% of the story. In each case, what should be done will be answered differently. If the work is being done by a homowner, they may call the Building Offical and it comes across as just painting, flooring and trim but in actuality, it may be much more than that. To others, it means it is a complete project, starting from the concrete slab/masonry walls, basically adding everything.

By me asking unique3 to make the call to City Hall is a way to ensure that he/she abides by the laws that protect their property and more. As with tom22007, he needs to call as well to ensure that everything he needs is covered.

Pulling a permit or not, is not the question that should not be asked, the question should be why not pull a permit, when one is required? You can say that you are doing it by the "book" or that you know what you are doing but the issues are more involved than that. Most common reason not to get a permit "My property taxes will increase". Then I hear them say that "the improvements will increase my property value but I don't want my taxes to go up!?" When one places their property on the amrket, the Assessed Market Value is looked at and based upon calculations and similar market surveys, determining what a home is worth is based upon these. It is not based upon "What you feel it is worth". Still think you want to avoid getting a permit when they are needed?

Homeowners Insurance becomes an issue. In the event of a loss, obviously your improvements that were done without a permit will not be covered. Once an adjuster sees that there was work that was done without a permit, he just may deny the entire claim. Not knowing what other work may have been done and never got inspected you could be facing a major problem. Investing in a $50 or $500 permit is a minor item when it relates to a home that is worth $200,000! Why risk it?
Selling the home down the line...there is a form that must be filled out by the seller..a "Disclosure Statement" which will cover anything and everything that is documented on the life cycle of the home including "your projects". They might involve something minor or something that should have had a permit. Lenders may deny your buyer's loan because of no permits obtained due to the liability that could jeopardize the integrity of their "collateral". Not disclosing the items is a violation of the law and you can be subject to civil or criminal actions that will just ruin your day. What you think you can get away with now will haunt you later, I guarantee it!

"Reduced sale price of home" could be a real issue. Most properties sold now may be subject to state-licensed Home Inspection Services. These services are excellent as they go into attics, crawl spaces, extremely thorough. All questionable areas are noted on their reports. These may be required within your state or within a specific county or municipality. These can be mandated by the Lender regardless of state/local requirements. In some cases, they can be requested by the Buyer. Lenders may not even approve a loan if permits were not obtained. You may have to take a $20,000 or $30,000 hit for an example on the sales price of the home! Can you afford this? More and more buyers are hiring an inspector due to those that fail to get permits when required. Failure to allow the inspection will not be in your best interest. These inspections will involve everything on the home to include all structural and mechanical systems. Everything must meet the "current local codes".

What happens if I get caught without a permit? You might have to pay double fees for the permit plus possibly a code compliance inspection fee, plus .... YOU may indeed have to remove any improvements that were done without permits and trust me, they can do it!

In summary, Building Permits...who needs them?!! Everyone!! Ask yourself this...Isn't your family's safety, enjoyment of the improvements, the benefits reaped at time of sale more important to justify the need for a building permit when they are required? It's your choice...maybe.

Hope this helps!

 

I was actually going to not take out the permit but now that you have pointed out all the things that could happen if I dont I am going to do it right away.
My dad also pointed out that my bank may get pissed off that I ripped out the existing basement because until it is finished the mortgage is now worth more then the house. But as long as I redo it there wont be a problem.

Anyways, thanks for clearing up the reasons for a permit Doug.

 

unique3,

You're welcome. I just wanted to make sure that everyone knows what permits mean - it isn't just about taxes.

Good Luck!

 

Thanks, I will definitly get a permit.

 

tom22007,

You're very welcome! Let me know how it comes out. Any feedback on these is great for everyone, even if this may be centralized to your location.

Good Luck!

 

I agree with what Doug says about permits, though not entirely. Where I live, the Assessor never enters the home and thus wouldn't know whether I remodeled or not. Neither has my insurance agent ever seen the inside. My policy is for full replacement cost of the home as it exists when/if it is destroyed.

Some localities also take the permit process to the extreme. One place I lived in Washington State, a permit (costing $35) was technically required to replace a faulty wall switch. What nonsense.

 

md2lgyk,

True, the accessor may not enter the home but when obtaining a permit, we both know who does! We still have that disclosure statement to deal with when we sell. When it comes to that building permit application, we put down an estimated price. Some put down a very low figure, (because their taxes will go up!!) some are honest and put down the right one.

The issue of not pulling one is that if that electrical outlet caused a fire or some other thing that was related to new work - not original construction, questions would be raised and claims can be flat denied. It is amazing that insurance adjusters and investigators do talk to other people, City Hall and neighbors, to get facts on the home. This is where some have gotten into lots of trouble and left with nothing to repair damages.

Again it is owner beware of what can happen. Getting a permit for a lousy outlet or switch replacement? Paying $35.00 could be the best investment in your life! Do we all do this, for a simple wall switch or outlet, no. Why? It's a simple deal, why fill out paperwork for this? Should we? Yes, if it's required.

Here where I live, they want a permit to replace a toilet, basement remodels, driveways, windows, siding and trim, roofing as examples. You don't need one if replacing outlets or switches or light fixture. Everywhere is different so making a call to City Hall is important.

If this sounds like overkill in my explanation, think about it all. We have Codes to protect us from personal injury which effects are health insurance, property damage which effects are insurance rates and from someone doing something so bizarre, that you want to move from your neighborhood thus effecting your property value. Conforming within the boundries as set forth by your municipality is for the best interest of all, not the few. (although I don't always agree that is the case).

Thanks for the input!

 

You're welcome. I hope I didn't come across as anti-government or anti-permit - that wasn't my intention. I tend to forget that many people are not knowledgeable about even the basics of home wiring, plumbing, etc. and could probably hurt themselves or burn down their house trying to replace a switch.

It's interesting that you mention the disclosure statement when selling a house. I've bought/sold houses in several states and have seen the direct question "Is there any unapproved or uninspected wiring in the house?" on at least one statement. Don't ever recall seeing such a question about plumbing or remodeling/repair work in general. Even having gotten permits for whatever work I did, I had to answer "Don't know" a couple of times. In a 50-year-old house, who can say?

 

md2lgyk,

No problem, I understand. The last question you mentioned is one that only a current owner can answer and this is where problems can arise.

Recently, a homeowner is getting sued for fraudulent information on a disclosure statement for not saying the truth about water infiltration into basement. Basement was recently painted but once new owners got it, moderate to heavy rains came, the neighbor mentioned that the basement had problems in the past. Evidence of the paint peeling in 3 areas showed it was painted over the great looking "black stuff"! Guess who's in trouble?

Homes that are 50 years of age fall into a different catagory and as we all know building codes change. As such, around here at least, any improvements above $1,000, interconnected smoke alarms/detectors must be installed. This can be costly but again, Code requirement. If the price to do this is too much, permission has been given in some cases to install battery operated units.

Thanks!