Floor Insulation

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  #1  
Old 06-20-04, 06:09 AM
ringwood
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Floor Insulation

I am building a small (14' X 28') camp in Maine. The floor joists(2" x 10")are in place and sit about 8" off the ground on Sonotube footings. Being unable to crawl under to install insulation, I stapled 1/4' chicken wire about 6" down from the top, between the joists. This leaves me a 6" pocket to install insulation. My question is how do I install vapor barriers in this situation? My thought was to have the barrier faced side of the insulation up against the floor and leave an un-faced insulation against the chicken wire. I would finish this off by laying 6 mil plastic on the ground to help prevent ground moisture from collecting no the insulation. The other option suggested to me was to drop plastic into each pocket before I put the insulation in. This would be like having a vapor barrier on both sides of the insulation. I'm not sure if this would allow the insulation to breathe properly?

Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Sid
 
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Old 06-20-04, 06:32 AM
J
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The first option is correct. The second option is wrong.
 
  #3  
Old 06-20-04, 07:06 AM
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If you are going to let it open under there all the time. We look at it as an outside wall and do just that to it. If no one will see the under side id put a 1/2" mesh on the under side. put in R 30 paper to the room side. then we put a 4 milpoy V/B over the whole floor joist then the floor. Has worked like this for a long time. AS I said dont close the wall of the crawl way at all let it all open. Just some vents wont work


ED
 
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Old 06-20-04, 08:17 AM
ringwood
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Thanks both for your replys.

Ed, would using faced insulation eliminate the need to use the R 30 paper or should I use both, before I put the 4 mil poly over it?

Thanks again,
Sid
 
  #5  
Old 06-20-04, 11:15 AM
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Sorry not another R or what. Just the R 30 paper faced insulation paper to the room side. Then so there is no moisture leaks at all we then put a 4 mill poly over all the joist as one piece if we can Then the floor.


ED
 
  #6  
Old 06-20-04, 03:48 PM
ringwood
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Thanks again Ed.
I misunderstood the first time. Got it now.
Hopfully I'll get north to get this step done this week.

Sid
 
  #7  
Old 06-20-04, 04:05 PM
ringwood
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While I got your attention I have another question.
I picked up 23/32 Sturd-I-Floor tongue-and-groove plywood.
I know this will get rained on before I get a chance to get the roof up.
Should I use some sort of sealant between the panels to help keep the rain out?
Also, the product sheet says to space the panels 1/8" apart to prevent
buckling. What is the best method to attach the plywood to the joists, flooring nails or screws?

Thanks,
Sid
 
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Old 06-21-04, 11:53 AM
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No sealant.

Screws, lots of them. Using adhesive also will help insure no squeaks.
 
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Old 06-21-04, 02:23 PM
ringwood
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Thanks John,
I'm putting 6 mil plastic on the ground to keep some of the moisture
down. I was going to put a piece over the insulation before I layed
the plywood. Would adhesive work in that situation? I'm using
23/32 Sturd-I-Floor tongue-and-groove plywood. How long would
be enough for the screws? Regular drywall type screws?
I just put 14 sheets of plywood in the back of the pick up. Glad I got
new F250!
Thanks again,
Sid
 
  #10  
Old 12-07-04, 02:48 PM
speaker
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I need the same advice

2 questions if I may.

1) If the underside of the floor will be left open at all times (no siding at all), is there a need for poly on the dirt underneath?

2) What happens when they all go home after the weekend, say in November and the outside temp. is 30 F, and the inside of the cabin is balmy 80 F, won't the moisture condense on the (what was the warm side) once the cabin equalizes, and subject the interior sheathing to mold, rott, wet conditions etc...

I am sure that they will have a wood stove or the like, and burning that inside with no insulation/vapour/air is worse, because then the wood strucure gets the moisture, when it cools.

In situations like this, should a sheltered window be left open a crack to allow heat (moisture) to escape, when going back to the grind after the weekend?

Basically I was wondering, Are structures that do not stay above freezing at all times through-out the year play by a different set of rules, or is this senerio digging to deep?
Thank you

I want to build something similar, and need some insight
hope someone can help
 
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Old 12-07-04, 03:53 PM
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Wink

speaker

Basically I was wondering, Are structures that do not stay above freezing at all times through-out the year play by a different set of rules, or is this senerio digging to deep?
Yes, they dont do to good

Id say its has a lot to do with just what kind of home cabin or shed you have are will build there and where
I had one way back. Layed it out so could just turn off the heat and water . Water pipes so they would drain down and all that kind of stuff. Worked fine till it got real cold. Then it started ,would turn the heat on fill the hot water tank turn the power on to it and the fridge. The fridge sluged out the compressor cause it was so cold. By morning I dont know how many of the tapes on the drywall had broke or came off. Do to the expansion of the inside wood and all that.Even the vinyl floor tile shrink up and dont go back
I lived at the lake later. And you can just walk in to a home and tell if they try to turn the heat way down or not in the winter. I find its best to keep a cabin are what ,at about 55o when you do this keep all the kitchen cabinet door open and all the closet door open also. To let air into them. It dont take a lot of fuel to keep it just warm. It also dont take as long to get it warm when you do go to it.
On that wood stove it will pull in the moist air from out side in to the home to get air for the flue on the stove.
Just my .02 cents from what I have been through. If I can answer any other thing I missed post back here.

ED
 
  #12  
Old 12-07-04, 04:40 PM
speaker
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Cottage options

I will be using the same principles as your old cabin had as far as draining water from pipes in the winter (lake water), but drywall or vinal flooring no, only red and white pine

As far as keeping the envelope heated (even at 40o) would require a furnace or electric heaters, and this cottage will be located in Huntsville Ontario (2 hour drive N of Toronto) would be an average winter temp of 25 or so (maybe colder).
I would rather leave 2 (sheltered) windows open a crack to allow a through breeze which would allow the heat (moisture) to escape rather than condense in the interior (this is to say after a weekend when the temp outside spring/fall has lowered, but stove was on, and inside temp was say 80o or so, and we shut down to go home, and the cottage equalizes)

I should say that the winters are dry up here.

Do you think that this window open technique has any merrit at all
Thanks ED
 
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Old 12-07-04, 04:51 PM
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Do you think that this window open technique has any merrit at all
I cant say yes or know on that. I will say no heat!!! paint or stain the T/G on that wood for the wall before you put it up . That way it cant show if it shrinks some or not. Didnt say what the floor was or if you can get under it. But I was think with that stove like a fireplace need air for the flue so rather than pull it from leaks in the home pipe in a out side air intake right to it under it are beside it like a register in the floor that you can open and close. We try to do this to all fireplaces.

ED
 
  #14  
Old 12-07-04, 05:12 PM
speaker
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Stove air hmmmm

Never thought about that (where the air would come from to feed the fire). The cottage is water access, (not much, if any winter use) but as soon as the ice is off the lake I'll be there. anyway the cottage will be built on sonotubes on top of bedrock 2' to 4' off the ground, I'll need room for general repairs (no doubt) and room for a remote evaporator for a composting toilet. with faced insulation (facing floor) tounge T&G ply on top, then 1x6 t&G finished red pine floor. and joist hangers to hold insulation in place form underneath then 1/2 chicken wire under insulation
I posted Q. other places inthe form, and was wondering what you might think if that's O.K.

(I will talk to my local BI) but....

Can sonotubes be filled right on top of bedrock without anchoring?
rebar?
would you poly over the faced on the floor?
now this register, how do you go about building on of these in, considering the vapour/air barrier?

where would you place this register
beside the stove ?
under it?

Thanks
 
  #15  
Old 12-07-04, 05:17 PM
speaker
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One more thing

I was planing on clear coating the walls and floor, but how would painting/staining them hide shrinkage in the wood?
Thanks again
 
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