Water in basement
#1
08-02-04, 11:43 AM
Water in basement
My girlfriend and I are trying to renovate a home with a full basement. However, we have run into a problem in the basement. After over a week of rain and a really big heavy downpour last night, we had a steady trickle of water in the basement. We saw it right away so we were able to determine where the water was coming in from. There was a small hole in the wall near the floor. Water was coming out of the hole at a pretty steady rate. It was gushing but was a steady heavy trickle. No other area was showing signs of water except for that area. What is the best way to fix that problem so as not to have that happen again?
#2
08-04-04, 05:51 AM
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Greginva,
It sounds like the ground was saturated and it will take the least resistance and that would be of course at any wall/floor junction. To avoid this totally, install a interior drain tile system with sump pump.
An alternative first, which may resolve many issues would be to look at this,
http://www.dspinspections.com/basementwater.htm
If this occurred now and never noticed it before, many areas suffered with water issues that never where there before.
Good luck!
It sounds like the ground was saturated and it will take the least resistance and that would be of course at any wall/floor junction. To avoid this totally, install a interior drain tile system with sump pump.
An alternative first, which may resolve many issues would be to look at this,
http://www.dspinspections.com/basementwater.htm
If this occurred now and never noticed it before, many areas suffered with water issues that never where there before.
Good luck!
#3
08-04-04, 07:23 AM
Thanks for the insight
We have found the gutters to be clogged a bit and have cleaned them out. We patched and cracked the hole as directed with mortor. We will use Drylock it once it is set. The other rooms which did not get any water this past time are the next concern. I understand the concept that most basements will at some time or another have issues. However, are there any measures that can be applied to the interior of the basement that can increase the effectiveness of the waterproofing efforts? Other than the obivious application of a waterproof paint such as Drylock, what helps best?
#4
08-04-04, 07:31 AM
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Greginva,
The best way of keeping water away from a foundation is to divert downspouts away from the house, and slope the ground away from the house. In that way any rain, snow melt, etc. will not drain down into the soil near the foundation. For any water that does drain down into the soil near the foundation, and also for any excessive ground water already in the soil from a high water table, a perimeter drain tile and stone or gravel backfill has been the standard approach. This is a waterproofing system. The same application is done to the "interior" of the lower level and this works extremely well especially in older homers when exterior applications cannot be done.
When water gets into such a gravel backfill, it quickly runs down into the drain tile and is diverted away through a pipe either by gravity or a sump pump. When a drain tile is used, but soil is used for backfill, the water can't drain away as quickly, so it tries to drain through the foundation wall. If enough water is present, hydrostatic pressure will force it through any opening it can find in the foundation wall, no matter how small.
The purpose of the stone or gravel backfill is to relieve the hydrostatic pressure. With the correct backfill material, the water will travel the path of least resistance: through the backfill into the drain tile, rather than through the foundation wall. I will point out that drain tile comes in two styles - rigid and flexible. The rigid has a slot on one side and this is installed with slot down. The flexible has slots on 4 or 6 sides, if you will but this should be installed with a silt sock over it. Costs more but prevents silt from getting into the pipe. Most homes, for interior applications use the flexible but either is acceptable.
When the soil is merely damp, as it often is, water isn't the problem. When damp soil is next to a foundation, it will cause the foundation to get damp. The dampness will work its way through the foundation wall and eventually enter the basement or crawl space. Concrete and masonry are actually very porous, so dampness can move through such materials fairly easily. (This is done through a process called capillary action.) Once the dampness reaches the interior surface, it can evaporate into the basement or crawl space, increasing the moisture in the air.
To stop the dampness is relatively easy because, by not being in form, there is no hydrostatic pressure. A simple foundation coating will do the job. This coating is called dampproofing. It isn't a substitute for waterproofing.
PROCESS: Remove about 16" space out from wall. Ensure that you are about 8 inches out from footing. Dig a trench along the footing that slopes gradually towards a sump basin. Trench approaches the sump basin from two sides. Drill ¾” holes into each of the block cavities (2 per block) in the course of blocks that sits directly on top of the footing. Water now comes out of these holes when it rains. Place 4" corrugated drain pipe in the trench and run this all along the trench to the sump basket. You may use a silt cover or a silt sock which covers this pipe of which then you would place 3/4" pea gravel over this to a level that leaves about 4" of space for your new concrete. Place the concrete all the way to wall - NO SPACE IS REQUIRED. Install a good sump pump and PVC piping - 1 1/2" out to the exterior and away from the homw for proper drainage. This could be buried and run into a drywell at least 20 plus feet away from the home on down grade.
http://www.dspinspections.com/basementwater.htm
http://www.binkleyandober.com/residential.php3
http://www.usinspect.com/Crawlspace/PerforatedPipe.asp
There seems to be two types of waterproofers: (1) the smaller guys who do it the old fashioned (but incorrect) way (using a perforated pvc pipe french drain system, epoxy/polyurethane injection to fill cracks, and thoroseal to seal the walls) though at a reasonable price (for my basement about $7,000); and (2) those who use more modern methods (i.e., the Univ of Minn way: using slotted ADS piping, dimpled plastic sheet drain between the base of the wall/top of the footing and the floor slab, and a wall drainage system employing either roughcasting or a type of water resistant board such as fiberglass), but will only do so for what seems to me to be a very inflated price (about $17,000!!!).
I had the MN way done, but no sealing of the walls. Your price sounds better than mine with the sealing included. I had one new sump pit built with a battery backup pump on it. I now have three pits. The others were just dug deeper. They did it all in two days. Day one: one guy just pounding out the trenches. the second day about six guys were there for 10 hours removing dirt, concrete and filling with rock, pipe, waffle and resealing.
Ideally, you should still attempt to get water away from the foundation. I have tried, but still seem to have issues with heavy rains (hence my getting the drains). There's still more work I can do like relocating a drain from the back all the way to the front.
I haven't had any water on the floor since I had the drains installed.
Hope this helps!
The best way of keeping water away from a foundation is to divert downspouts away from the house, and slope the ground away from the house. In that way any rain, snow melt, etc. will not drain down into the soil near the foundation. For any water that does drain down into the soil near the foundation, and also for any excessive ground water already in the soil from a high water table, a perimeter drain tile and stone or gravel backfill has been the standard approach. This is a waterproofing system. The same application is done to the "interior" of the lower level and this works extremely well especially in older homers when exterior applications cannot be done.
When water gets into such a gravel backfill, it quickly runs down into the drain tile and is diverted away through a pipe either by gravity or a sump pump. When a drain tile is used, but soil is used for backfill, the water can't drain away as quickly, so it tries to drain through the foundation wall. If enough water is present, hydrostatic pressure will force it through any opening it can find in the foundation wall, no matter how small.
The purpose of the stone or gravel backfill is to relieve the hydrostatic pressure. With the correct backfill material, the water will travel the path of least resistance: through the backfill into the drain tile, rather than through the foundation wall. I will point out that drain tile comes in two styles - rigid and flexible. The rigid has a slot on one side and this is installed with slot down. The flexible has slots on 4 or 6 sides, if you will but this should be installed with a silt sock over it. Costs more but prevents silt from getting into the pipe. Most homes, for interior applications use the flexible but either is acceptable.
When the soil is merely damp, as it often is, water isn't the problem. When damp soil is next to a foundation, it will cause the foundation to get damp. The dampness will work its way through the foundation wall and eventually enter the basement or crawl space. Concrete and masonry are actually very porous, so dampness can move through such materials fairly easily. (This is done through a process called capillary action.) Once the dampness reaches the interior surface, it can evaporate into the basement or crawl space, increasing the moisture in the air.
To stop the dampness is relatively easy because, by not being in form, there is no hydrostatic pressure. A simple foundation coating will do the job. This coating is called dampproofing. It isn't a substitute for waterproofing.
PROCESS: Remove about 16" space out from wall. Ensure that you are about 8 inches out from footing. Dig a trench along the footing that slopes gradually towards a sump basin. Trench approaches the sump basin from two sides. Drill ¾” holes into each of the block cavities (2 per block) in the course of blocks that sits directly on top of the footing. Water now comes out of these holes when it rains. Place 4" corrugated drain pipe in the trench and run this all along the trench to the sump basket. You may use a silt cover or a silt sock which covers this pipe of which then you would place 3/4" pea gravel over this to a level that leaves about 4" of space for your new concrete. Place the concrete all the way to wall - NO SPACE IS REQUIRED. Install a good sump pump and PVC piping - 1 1/2" out to the exterior and away from the homw for proper drainage. This could be buried and run into a drywell at least 20 plus feet away from the home on down grade.
http://www.dspinspections.com/basementwater.htm
http://www.binkleyandober.com/residential.php3
http://www.usinspect.com/Crawlspace/PerforatedPipe.asp
There seems to be two types of waterproofers: (1) the smaller guys who do it the old fashioned (but incorrect) way (using a perforated pvc pipe french drain system, epoxy/polyurethane injection to fill cracks, and thoroseal to seal the walls) though at a reasonable price (for my basement about $7,000); and (2) those who use more modern methods (i.e., the Univ of Minn way: using slotted ADS piping, dimpled plastic sheet drain between the base of the wall/top of the footing and the floor slab, and a wall drainage system employing either roughcasting or a type of water resistant board such as fiberglass), but will only do so for what seems to me to be a very inflated price (about $17,000!!!).
I had the MN way done, but no sealing of the walls. Your price sounds better than mine with the sealing included. I had one new sump pit built with a battery backup pump on it. I now have three pits. The others were just dug deeper. They did it all in two days. Day one: one guy just pounding out the trenches. the second day about six guys were there for 10 hours removing dirt, concrete and filling with rock, pipe, waffle and resealing.
Ideally, you should still attempt to get water away from the foundation. I have tried, but still seem to have issues with heavy rains (hence my getting the drains). There's still more work I can do like relocating a drain from the back all the way to the front.
I haven't had any water on the floor since I had the drains installed.
Hope this helps!
#5
08-05-04, 07:04 AM
install exterior french drains
Originally Posted by Greginva
My girlfriend and I are trying to renovate a home with a full basement. However, we have run into a problem in the basement. After over a week of rain and a really big heavy downpour last night, we had a steady trickle of water in the basement. We saw it right away so we were able to determine where the water was coming in from. There was a small hole in the wall near the floor. Water was coming out of the hole at a pretty steady rate. It was gushing but was a steady heavy trickle. No other area was showing signs of water except for that area. What is the best way to fix that problem so as not to have that happen again?
Now a pain to do but well worth it, install a french drain....where the closet down spout is to that area dig down below frost line if possible (3ft or so maybe 4 if its easy digging) and install PVC piping directing away from the house. Run about 7 -8 ft of solid piping and then about 3 ft of perferated piping (with holes, drill yourself if you have to),,,, the last three feet lay in a bed of crushed stones and then cover with crushed stones and some thick mill plastic before putting the dirt back. Run an elbow and then a piece up so the downspout will run right into it... cover with screan the top area where the water runs in so only water can access and leaves and crap will not go down and plug your system. I did this at each of the downspouts at my house and went from a FLOODING raging riving in my basemnt to NOTHING, not a DROP.... should take you 4-5 hrs each one (again depends on the digging to install after you get all the supplies) do one a month... its the best thing you can do for a home in my opinion... just renovated a house built in 1840 .... now that the water has made its way in there will be more to come and do not think an inside path will save you for long... water is evel and nasty and will find away... keep it away from the house, diverting it away is best... just directing it away with a 1ft down spout is great but with a LOT of rain water will work its way 12 inches in towards your home..... if you divery it 7-8 ft away it will NEVER get there.... good luck
