basement - framing half concrete wall


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Old 12-08-07, 07:37 AM
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basement - framing half concrete wall

I have an unfinished basement i want to get started on. hardest part is creating something from a blank slate! im taking the easy way out, and closing off areas i know what i want to do with (for example, built a wine cellar and will be starting a closet soon).

as i move further along, ill be able to vision what to do with the majority of the open space.

my question is simple, i hope.

the basement is mostly at ground level, except toward the front of the house, where it is almost completely underground.
all areas that are underground have poured concrete walls; all ground level have framed walls; with stepped framing all the way around, matching the exterior contour.

when finishing the walls, how do i hang the sheetrock? if the bottom half of a wall is concrete, and the top is already framed and insulated, am i supposed to reframe? glue the bottom of the sheetrock to the concrete? fur out with 1x4s?

ideally, i dont want to lose wall space, but it doesnt seem right to have a half floating sheetrock wall, or reframe when a large portion of the wall is already framed an insulated.

Thanks!
 
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Old 12-08-07, 08:04 AM
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I frame out the concrete half wall with half length studs. Sheetrock or wainscoting on the bottom and trim the transition with 1X. It makes for a handy shelf.
 
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Old 12-08-07, 02:53 PM
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i thought about that, but some areas arent too convenient for this, they are about 7' high...
good idea though, for the lower sections!
 
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Old 12-09-07, 06:43 AM
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" ...when finishing the walls, how do i hang the sheetrock? if the bottom half of a wall is concrete, and the top is already framed and insulated, am i supposed to reframe?"

Sorry, I thought you were asking about the half walls. Full length walls are typically framed with a conventional stud wall separated from the concrete by at least one inch. That is a code requirement in my area. Furring to the concrete is not allowed.
 
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Old 12-09-07, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by cwbuff View Post
Sorry, I thought you were asking about the half walls. Full length walls are typically framed with a conventional stud wall separated from the concrete by at least one inch. That is a code requirement in my area. Furring to the concrete is not allowed.
so what holds the wall to the house? for interior walls, i can understand floating since settling of the house may occur, but if youve got a supporting exterior wall, half poured, and half studded, both supporting the entire exterior wall, how can the wall float?

ive attached links to pics for reference. maybe i wasnt being clear. all studded walls meet concrete, with poly insulation resting between.

http://www.o2resources.com/pics/IMGP2866.JPG
http://www.o2resources.com/pics/IMGP2867.JPG

thanks!
 
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Old 12-09-07, 08:13 PM
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I'm not sure what you mean by "floating" a wall. Conventional framing would have the sole plates fastened to the slab with tapcons or a powder nailer. The top plates are fastened to the joists. the half wall is framed the same way except the top is attached to nailers on the half wall ledge. The same nailers will provide a way to attach the shelf between the two half walls.
 
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Old 12-10-07, 05:38 AM
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Also, the top plates of the basement stud walls do not have to be attached to the joists if you so choose. A reason you may have to do this is to allow space for hvac ducts. The wall will still stand up since it is attached at the sole plate to the basement slab and also to the ajoining walls, which also provide lateral support necessary to be "floating", again if you so choose. The walls that you will build to finish your basement are not intended to be load bearing, they will not be supporting your house, but that doesn't mean you can't frame them all the up to the joist either.
 
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Old 12-10-07, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by cwbuff View Post
I'm not sure what you mean by "floating" a wall. Conventional framing would have the sole plates fastened to the slab with tapcons or a powder nailer. The top plates are fastened to the joists. the half wall is framed the same way except the top is attached to nailers on the half wall ledge. The same nailers will provide a way to attach the shelf between the two half walls.
Floating walls are required in some areas (Colorado for instance) when put up in a basement. You attach a plate to the concrete floor - and add another bottom plate above that with a space of about an inch between the concreted plate and wall bottom plate - suspended by spikes. Supposedly to keep the new basement wall from lifting the floor joists above should the basement floor rise.
 
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Old 12-10-07, 11:26 AM
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thezster - funny how concrete lifts in some parts of the country and not in others. I've never heard of that until now. I've said this before one of the neatest things about this site is that you can learn something new every day.
 
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Old 12-10-07, 07:08 PM
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i think we have clarified what typical construction standards are for joists, but can anyone point me in the direction of my original question?
if i have a framed wall (whether it be the top 80%, or 30%, see referenced pics), how do i rock the unframed portion? the poured section is even with the framed section, so i cant furr out to give the rock something to attach to, im assuming id have to reframe the entire wall, or, butt out the bottom portion and add a shelf. this is a nice touch, but i didnt want the entire basement to be this way..

Thanks again!
 
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Old 12-10-07, 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted by cwbuff View Post
thezster - funny how concrete lifts in some parts of the country and not in others. I've never heard of that until now. I've said this before one of the neatest things about this site is that you can learn something new every day.
its a fairly common building code from what ive seen (though not here in the northeast, fortunately).

some zones have also claimed it to be needed due to water infiltration in areas with high water tables.
 
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Old 12-10-07, 08:33 PM
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LZ,
your question has been answered guy. what you smugly refer to as clarifying "construction standards for joists" really hasnt anything to do with joist standards whatsoever, rather, its us providing you with a few options. And no, furring strips does not appear to be one of them. does that mean you can't do it? no, that means its not feasible or advisable as you will be replacing mildew stained drywall before you payoff the credit card that finished your basement. you look like youve got 5" to lose on each wall without a breaking a sweat. do the job right the first time around.

but you seem to only want to hear how you can stick some 1x's to your conc. wall, so keep your post simple and specific next time. something to the tune of, "how do you attach wood to concrete?"
 
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Old 12-11-07, 04:29 AM
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the only answer was from cwbuff, where he said i can frame it out and leave a shelf. like i clarified,thats fine for some areas, but shelves arent handy at 7 or 8' high. it seems odd to me that builders would build like this, insulate, provide elec and cable drops, and still expect that you have to completely reframe a wall. thats why i asked, i assumed something obvious was being overlooked.

i dont want to use 1x's, actually, but nothing else seemed to fit into the scenario.

anyway, i appreciate the help, guy.
 
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Old 12-11-07, 07:05 AM
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LZ - The shelf I recommended is only for the half wall. If I were doing the job I would build a stud wall the full height of the full walls. Space the new wall at least an inch from the concret (code in my area) and drywall it. As another poster said, you're going to lose about 5".

IMO you can't leave the top plate of a stud wall unattached as another poster stated. Nail it up only at the corner posts and you will have a "flexiwall" in the middle.
 
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Old 12-11-07, 08:34 AM
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I agree with the above perspective. That 5 inches sounds like a lot to lose - but when you're done - you'll never notice it... and will be happy that your electrics /plumbing were easy to run through the new wall studs....
 
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Old 12-11-07, 08:55 AM
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As an aside, might as well do the half wall where you can though, save a little material. and FYI your house was built the way it is because: as your yard slopes the footing steps down, as does the top of the wall because the wall itself can only be poured so high before ramping up the thickness, it costs less, it insulates loads better, fastening a veneer to concrete instead of wood would be great fun and you certainly dont want 9' exposed concrete....
 
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Old 12-11-07, 07:13 PM
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cw and thez - i agree. this is the most sensible solution, but again it just seems odd that cable and wiring drops were provided (and even spaced off the wall with the correct depth for a sheetrock install), when the most logical solution is to stud out the full wall. i should have clarified, that was my original question, really. i will have to verify code for spacing off current framing.

ohio - i understand the intent of using concrete, especially underground, as its a superior load bearing installation with the pressure of soil on the exterior. as is typically done, the concrete extends approx 2' higher than exterior ground elevation.

ill just get creative as i go, using 1x for the horizontal shelf wall where applicable, and take advantage of the extra wall space for better insulating effects and more cable run space.

a closet is almost built, mech space will be closed off next, then ill move along as i envision the space filling out..
 
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Old 12-12-07, 09:02 AM
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My last thought! --- My last fix n flip had that "half wall ledge" that you're contemplating......... and, per my realtor, exuded a 1970's feel to the finished basement.... Personal perspective, to be sure - but - perception is reality.....
 
 

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