Fastening Basement Wall to Floor Joists

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  #1  
Old 01-11-08, 08:47 AM
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Fastening Basement Wall to Floor Joists

Hi there, New member starting to frame my basement myself along with a son and two son in laws.

I read the diy instructions for framing a basement and there is one part I am having trouble with. I copied the following statement:

"Special L shaped framing clips are available that will attach the walls to the floor joists and still allow them to float"

I can not find these L shaped framing clips at Home Depot or Carter Lumber. I have not idea what they even look like. I build the wall on the floor, stand it up, fasten it to the concrete floor and that statement is for attaching to the overhead floor joists.

Any suggestions will be appreciated.
 
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  #2  
Old 01-11-08, 09:06 AM
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Sounds like a gimmick. Just cut you stud short by 1/8th and nail to cross braces between joists. You will be fine.
 
  #3  
Old 01-11-08, 01:14 PM
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Agreed. I've always just screwed the top plate to the joists. If you've got that much movement in your house that these walls would go out of level, then they are the least of your worries.
 
  #4  
Old 01-12-08, 04:43 AM
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To be honest I could not understand why I would worry about movement. My house is only five years old, I have a poured foundation and I am mainly framing the outside walls.

I really just want to build the walls on the floor and stand them up and attach as opposed to putting the board on the top and the board on the bottom and then toenailing.

I realize I have to build them a little shorter or they will not stand up. The instructions say to make them 3/4" shorter. That seems like a little too much to me. What do you think? Once I get them stood up, I figure I can use shims to stabilize the wall then screw it into the floor joists. I bought the 22 cal fastener for anchoring the pressure treated board to the floor.

Oh yeah, one other question: What about putting a moisture barrier on the walls. I see one or two spots that look a little wet, but for the most part they are dry. Deciding whether to put plastic on the wall, paint the wall with a sealant or do nothing. I'm leaning towards doing nothing.

Thanks
 
  #5  
Old 01-14-08, 06:18 AM
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I'd find out where the moisture is coming from before I go one step further. Covering it up is only going to cause problems down the road.
 
  #6  
Old 01-14-08, 10:43 AM
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The "L-shaped" clips sound like the DC-04 Resilient Sound Isolation Clips (RSIC) available form PAC-Intl. They are used to isolate the wall from the rest of the structure to minimize sound transfer. If you are not building a dedicated, or higher-end non-dedicated home theater and don't care about sound transmission through to the rest of the house, then you really don't need these clips, but they are definitely NOT a gimmick.

Good luck,
Tom
 
  #7  
Old 01-14-08, 11:24 AM
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I've also heard guys who frame in very cold climates talk about framing "floating" walls in basements to allow for movement in a floating slab. I understood the gap was left at the bottom of the wall using a special fastener. Around here we've never had to do that.
 
  #8  
Old 01-14-08, 11:49 AM
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Thats' true too...I think it's Colorado that you have to build a wall that allows for vertical movement of the slab without affecting the upper floors. That's a whole separate issue and I'm glad I don't have to worrry about that one!

Maybe that's what the OP was referring to.

Tom
 
  #9  
Old 01-14-08, 12:06 PM
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Colorado (for one) requires (in various regions) floating basement walls to prevent ground shifting from affecting the upper levels of a house.. This is typically achieved by putting down a base plate on the basement concrete - setting a 2x4 spacer (without fasteners) on that followed by another false base plate. Spikes are used to attach the true base plate to the false one - and the 2x4 spacer is then pulled out. this allows the concrete (and true base plate) to rise without pushing up the next floor level (theoretically)......
 
  #10  
Old 01-14-08, 12:09 PM
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Wink

We hang a 6 mil-poly on the wall from the sill plate. Put a 2X P/T on the floor. Build the wall and slide it in and up on the P/T. Shim to every other joist and toe nail it. R 13 in the wall a block of R19 in each joist space up on the sill plate all around the home. Paper side to the room.
 
  #11  
Old 01-22-08, 10:19 AM
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Thanks for the replies!

I lived in Colorado for 3.5 years and had my basement framed and yes they did do the floating base that was mentioned here.

Another question: I was planning to do the ceiling with dry wall as opposed to using the cieling tiles. Just looking for opinions? I'm trying to do this as inexpesively as possible.
 
  #12  
Old 01-22-08, 11:14 AM
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I hate ceiling tile - and always finish my basement remodels with drywall. The question of access to plumbing/piping/electrical tends to come up with your question..... If that work is done right - future access shouldn't be an issue. Ceiling tile eat up precious headroom - look industrial - and are more expensive than drywall.
 
  #13  
Old 01-22-08, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by JimKW View Post
...yes they did do the floating base that was mentioned here.
Something I am not familiar with. Is this to help protect against a slab that may move up and down?, or from side to side? And does this really happen to some meaningful extent?, or is this more some kind of theory thing.

And can someone describe these anchors or bring up a picture of these things? Very nice to know about something like this in case one were to do such contracting and the customer tells YOU about such a thing, and you do not have a clue.
 
  #14  
Old 01-22-08, 04:26 PM
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Colorado's "floating walls" are designed to protect the dwelling in the event the basement floor should rise. I don't have any photos but the basic description I posted above should give you some idea... Basically, it looks like two floor plates - held apart by spikes that keep the upper one raised off of the lower one by an inch and a half. If it helps: take two 3ft 2X4's and sandwich a 1ft 2X4 between them...... Nail spikes through the 3footers - avoiding the 1 footer - then pull out the 1 footer.... voila - a floating floor plate.
 
  #15  
Old 01-22-08, 05:33 PM
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Then I take it that when you panel or sheetrock and baseboard you cannot put fasteners into both of the 2 bottom plates - only the top one? And also leave the sheetrock that 1 inch off the floor also?
 
  #16  
Old 01-23-08, 07:49 AM
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Nope.. sheet rock has no structural strength - so nailing into the bottom plate and finishing the house "normally" is the way to go. Should the basement floor rise - crumpled sheetrock is going to be the least of your worries.......
 
  #17  
Old 01-23-08, 08:17 AM
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Why wouldn't people do it the way I mentioned? Why have something built that say can raise up, but then allow the sheetrock to crumple. This just doesn't sound right.

Would you return to a complaining customer and tell them after you built it that the crumpled sheetrock was the least of their worries after you added to their cost the guarding against lift, by using that floating anchor system?
 
  #18  
Old 01-23-08, 08:46 AM
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Not saying it's "right" - simply that it's done that way. If you don't nail the baseboard to the bottom plate - you're going to end up with it nailed only in the top edge (trying to hit the floating plate which begins about 3 inches off the floor). If you feel that's the best method - there is nothing that says you "can't" do it.

As laid out to me - the procedure isn't to keep cosmetics from being damaged - but to keep your house from being lifted off it's foundation.
 
  #19  
Old 01-23-08, 12:51 PM
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I'm pretty sure they way the did it in my house in Colorado was the dry wall was fastened to the upper board and the base board to the bottom board. That way the base board would float with the floor and ride up on the dry wall. That's assuming the floor would actually move, which is highly unlikely.
 
  #20  
Old 01-23-08, 01:26 PM
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That makes sense.

I have never heard of floors going up and down like that, so this is a new one on me. Where I live, we live in a swamp, practically, and develop hydrostatic pressure under the slab. The slab has cracks. But I see no heaving, or sinking. Can't tell if it has or not. But guarding against floors going up and down for other reasons is something I have never been familiar with and is interesting to learn something new.
 
  #21  
Old 01-23-08, 07:03 PM
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There is an L- bracket that is used in framing. I would say they are about 1.5"x1.5" the bottom has 3 holes that you nail to the top plate the other side has a slot that you nail in the midle of the slot to the side of the bottom cord of a truss this is so the bottom cord can move with weight transfer. This maybe the bracket they are talking about.
 
  #22  
Old 01-24-08, 12:57 PM
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The question of access to plumbing/piping/electrical tends to come up with your question..... If that work is done right - future access shouldn't be an issue.
Agreed. If the pipes up to your second floor bathroom spring a leak and leak through to the ceiling of the first floor, you have to pull out all the drywall to fix it, right? What would be the difference with the basement ceiling being drywalled? Plus, if you've done the work yourself, you should know where everything is, so it's not like you should have to tear down the entire ceiling to figure out where the pipes are.

Personally, I'm drywalling my ceiling.

Good luck,
Tom
 
  #23  
Old 05-22-08, 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by ecman51` View Post
That makes sense.

I have never heard of floors going up and down like that, so this is a new one on me. Where I live, we live in a swamp, practically, and develop hydrostatic pressure under the slab. The slab has cracks. But I see no heaving, or sinking. Can't tell if it has or not. But guarding against floors going up and down for other reasons is something I have never been familiar with and is interesting to learn something new.
In Colorado it's not really hydrostatic forces, but swelling soils.
See:
http://geosurvey.state.co.us/Default.aspx?tabid=392
 
  #24  
Old 05-22-08, 09:22 AM
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Kind of a late post, huh? Why do you think those soils expand? Back to hydrostatic pressure....
 
  #25  
Old 05-22-08, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by thezster View Post
Kind of a late post, huh? Why do you think those soils expand? Back to hydrostatic pressure....
Not really. It's their particle shape and size that gives them the ability to absorb large quantities of water. The soil structure exerts the pressure, not the water (hydrostatic).
 
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